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Stormy
06-01-2016, 04:28 PM
***Update*** Jump to page 3 for detailed revisions.

Ok. Let's face it. The Sony stereo sucks. We all know it. It's poorly thought out and even more poorly executed. The sound is flat, even with the adjustments maxed, your arm blocks the drivers side tweeters if it's up on the window sill, the sound stage is too low and wide because the tweeters are too far back in the door, etc. etc. Most glaring of all is the lack of bass. There are lots of threads on sub upgrades around here but this is mine. A little background on me, I was an IASCA competitor and SQ judge back in the mid 90's with sponsorships from Streetwires and Oz Audio. I used to dump a lot of money and resources into cars to win trophies. This is not one of those systems. I am much older and, currently, much poorer. If money was no object I know all the things I'd do to make the cabina place of sonic euphoria but this is a test to see how much improvement in sound a minimum investment can make. Also, I wanted to have the entire system fit under the rear cover with room still for my road emergency kit, Get Home Bag, and California Car Duster. All this plus a cost of under $100. I knew I'd be sacrificing on some things, which kills my soul after what I'm used to running, but taking a hit on brand snobbery was worth it to improve my daily commute. So here goes...

Sub - Boss Audio CXX8. 8" subwoofer, "600" watts, 4 ohm SVC, seals in .35. cubic feet. $26 on amazon.
Amp - SoundStorm SMCM200. Monoblock, 2 ohm stable, 200 watt class A/B amplifier. $29 on amazon
Wiring - Boss Audio Kit Zero 10 gauge wiring kit. $10 on Amazon
Wood - 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF. $10 at Home Depot
Carpeting - Roll of black automotive carpet. $10 at AutoZone.

So, all in all I'm on the hook for about $85 in materials, about half the price of a cheap super shallow powered sub. Granted, I had other things like glue, fasteners, RCA block, etc on hand that would add to others' cost, so YMMV.

I used the calculator at carstereo.com to figure out my box volume. I made it just big enough to tuck in by the passenger side rear tail light. External dimensions were 17" x 10.5" x 5", giving me an internal volume of about .35 cubic feet for a basic rectangular box. I have the ability to upgrade a small volume (~.5 cubic feet) 10" sub down the road if I want to build an L-shaped box to use wasted space around the rear hinges for the cargo floor, but in the interest of simplicity I went basic for now. I constructed the box using Gorilla glue and an 18ga finishing nailer. I figure that this should be adequate for a cheap 8" and would save the risk of splitting the thin MDF with screws. If I move to a 10 I can always go back and pre-drill/screw it together between the nails then.

10197

10198

Tomorrow I'll wire up the amp and get it installed and we'll see what happens.

erdna14
06-01-2016, 07:33 PM
If it works (and I assume it will), you can't beat that price. I used to dump lots of money into systems as well, so I can appreciate someone taking the budget approach.

claydough
06-01-2016, 09:22 PM
Sub'd. Install tutorial would be tremendous!

Turbo65
06-01-2016, 10:27 PM
Me to

Stormy
06-02-2016, 11:10 AM
Thanks guys. I'm basically going to use the walk through at http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/378-Fiesta-ST-subwoofer-wiring-project/ but I'm going to use T-Taps to run a high level input into my amp instead of a level converter to RCAs . I'll take a couple photos as I go, though.

Chrisklol
06-02-2016, 11:36 AM
As a former SPL competitor I cringe at that subwoofer. I really want to do something in my car but everytime I do. I can't seem to allow myself to drop the quality that much and don't want to spend what I need to, to make it nice. So I end up doing nothing.

Stormy
06-02-2016, 03:32 PM
I've got everything wired up except for the damn power lead. LOL. Getting into that firewall grommet is a royal pain. I tried going into the symposer outlet and it felt like I was catching on something around the firewall as well. Maybe a mesh plug or something? Anyhow, I'll post again with all the pics and stuff once I clear this hurdle.

Stormy
06-02-2016, 05:19 PM
Posting this from my driver's seat with a sh*t eating grin on my face. I am very ecstatic with the end result. I have the little guy at about 2/3 gain and crossed over at around 120hz. It is exactly what I wanted. Great mesh with where the door speakers leave off, with a nice thickness to the sound and a bit of punch. Drum and bass and hip hop now have a warm bottom end and some good rumble, without being boomy. Blues and rock have depth and more clarity since I was able to dial back the bass from the doors.

So in other words, I am very pleased with the end result. The only reason I would jump to a 10" would be for a bit more pronounced punch and depth but I am very happy with my 8 and the neighbors are none the wiser.

I will post pics when I get back to my PC.

Turbo65
06-02-2016, 06:01 PM
Great stuff, can't wait to see the final pics

CanadianGuy
06-02-2016, 07:07 PM
Silly question but seeing how much room is below the sub floor would using an MDF subfloor and mounting the sub in the center firing up not work? Loose less space in the boot.

Stormy
06-02-2016, 09:26 PM
If I get what you're asking, I think it'd be too tough to get it to seal well. Even a freeair sub needs a definitive seal between front and rear sections of the speaker.

CanadianGuy
06-02-2016, 09:29 PM
If I get what you're asking, I think it'd be too tough to get it to seal well. Even a freeair sub needs a definitive seat between front and rear sections of the speaker.

hmm. Ya an ending up making a box for the underside of the cargo tray just gets way more complicated. I think I will go your route.

Stormy
06-02-2016, 10:00 PM
Okay, we are back!

As I said before, I'm really stoked on the final result. I did some driving to test things out at highway speeds and with some more music. When I was test listening in the driveway I started with real bass heavy music and was reveling in the vibes :) but when I got down to brass tacks it was a little boomy so I ended up lowering the crossover a hair to about 100. The end product is still fantastic though. The sound has so much more depth and fullness and the stock speakers are clearer with trying to handle less low end on their own. The little amp gets pretty warm. I may have to find a way to add cooling. We'll see now that I have it turned down. I also get a bit of a turn on pop when I fire up the car. I'll have to sniff that out. Finally, with the carpet, the mounting height of the speaker and all the padding on the underside of the trunk panel, I was resting ever-s0 slightly on the sub. I used a couple of scraps of 3/4" MDF to make small blocks, which I painted black and velcro'd to the underside of the panel. They rest on the two tabs that the panel normally sits on and gives me clearance. If you're going to use my design, knock an extra 1/2" off the height of the box... or just do what I did. You can't even tell.

Anyhow, on with the pictures!

I decided to go the route of using a T-Tap on the Brown and Yellow wire for the remote, simply because I had T-Taps and no mini fuse add-a-circuit things to use in the glove box fuse panel. It seems to work just fine.

10217

As previously mentioned, I had a beast of a time trying to get the power wire through the main loom grommet. I ended up using some 9ga utility wire as an electrician's snake. It was stiff enough to push through the grommet, then I taped the power wire to the end and fished it out. Wish I had thought of that in the first place.

1022210223

I also used T-Taps to splice into the rear speaker wires behind the passenger b-pillar. Just pull off the little panel behind the seat belt to get to a bundle of wires recessed in the pillar, rather than cutting all the tape off of the run that's bundled along the pillar post. The car is a lease and if I decide not to buy I didn't want cut speaker wires. This way was also less hassle. I only used the left side because the amp is a monoblock. I just used a run of 14ga speaker wire off the taps.

10219

The power and remote wires were run down between the trim and the weather stripping, just like everyone else.

10218

The amp uses these little plug and play quick release harnesses. Kinda janky compared to standard screw down terminals, but at this price point not surprising. They do make it super easy to remove the amp and box if I ever need to. Plug, plug, done. I put heat shrink tubing over all the connections, because electrical tape is ghetto. I did use E-tape for bundling wires, though.

10220

And here's the final product. I screwed the amp to the back of the box, because I could. Levels and crossover settings are along the left side for easy adjustment. It fits snugly between the rear of the trunk and the riser for the deck cover.

10221

And that's it!

CanadianGuy
06-03-2016, 06:53 AM
Stormy nice job. Are all you sound test with the rear cargo floor back it or simply the way pictured above?

Stormy
06-03-2016, 09:45 AM
The floor stays down. That was the idea. No loss of trunk function and concealed to deter theft.

Chrisklol
06-03-2016, 10:57 AM
I feel like my fiesta only having 4000 miles on it rattles enough just driving around. Can't imagine the rattles a sub would bring.

MKVIIST
06-03-2016, 01:32 PM
Nice job on the install.

FreshST
06-10-2016, 03:02 PM
I feel like my fiesta only having 4000 miles on it rattles enough just driving around. Can't imagine the rattles a sub would bring.

I've had my 12" RF sub in for about 3500 miles now, and I listen to it pretty damn loud. No rattle. Not even on the outside. Thought it would sound like crap outside the car. All you hear is deep bass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LaserWhisperer
09-08-2016, 11:55 AM
Okay, we are back!

As I said before, I'm really stoked on the final result. I did some driving to test things out at highway speeds and with some more music. When I was test listening in the driveway I started with real bass heavy music and was reveling in the vibes :) but when I got down to brass tacks it was a little boomy and overpowering for average use. I ended up turning the gain on the sub way down to about 2/5 the max (down from about 2/3) and lowering the crossover a hair to about 110. The end product is still fantastic though. The sound has so much more depth and fullness and the stock speakers are clearer with trying to handle less low end on their own. The little amp gets pretty warm. I may have to find a way to add cooling. We'll see now that I have it turned down. I also get a bit of a turn on pop when I fire up the car. I'll have to sniff that out. Finally, with the carpet, the mounting height of the speaker and all the padding on the underside of the trunk panel, I was resting ever-s0 slightly on the sub. I used a couple of scraps of 3/4" MDF to make small blocks, which I painted black and velcro'd to the underside of the panel. They rest on the two tabs that the panel normally sits on and gives me clearance. If you're going to use my design, knock an extra 1/2" off the height of the box... or just do what I did. You can't even tell.



Hey Stormy, I mirrored your setup, I also have the annoying turn-on pop. Also mine stays powered ON after shutting the car off, does your setup also exhibit this behavior?
Regarding the turn on pop, were you ever able to rectify that?

Spaceman_Spiff
09-08-2016, 01:08 PM
Hey Stormy, I mirrored your setup, I also have the annoying turn-on pop. Also mine stays powered ON after shutting the car off, does your setup also exhibit this behavior?
Regarding the turn on pop, were you ever able to rectify that?
Does it go off after you open the door? Maybe it's related to the power-off delay when the car is turned off...

Sent from my Spaceship

LaserWhisperer
09-08-2016, 01:11 PM
No, stays powered ON after door is opened (I should have clarified). Sub beats like a heart for a bit, as though a capacitor somewhere is slowly discharging.

Stormy
09-08-2016, 04:23 PM
Nope. I still have the pop. I haven't gotten around to messing with it as I've been busy this summer. It's actually a little worse because I plumbed in a computer fan to cool the amp, which worked wonders, but now I sometimes get a series of pops and some feedback through the rear speakers when the car is off. It's definitely a ground issue but I don't know if it's the amp or the chassis ground. I am suspecting the amp since I'm definitely grounded to bare metal in the trunk and because you are having similar issues with that amp.

As for the other problem, have you checked it for power after having closed all the doors and armed the alarm? I think power stays on in the car until you lock it and the lights go out, etc.

Stormy
05-01-2017, 10:28 PM
Ok, so major update. I got fed up with the little SSL amplifier... I put up with the issues for longer than I should have and that all changed today.

Issues:

1. The annoying ground turn-on/off pops - I tried a number of different grounding points and could not get it go away.
2. Overheating - It went thermal on me a couple times. I wired up a small computer fan which kept it cool but made the ground noise worse and caused a buzzing in my speakers.
3. Sad output - I didn't really have an idea about how bad this thing was until I put the new one in.

Resolution:

I picked up an MTX Thunder TC2002 amp on craigslist for $20. it was the perfect size to put under the driver's seat without encroaching into the back seat footwell or worrying about clearance (There's no room under the passenger seat because there's some kind of module under there). it was lacking the molex plug for high level inputs so I got a cheap line level converter from Best Buy and ran RCAs. I just tapped into my existing splices for the rear left speakers. The interface tucked in perfectly in the space at the base of the door jamb behind the trim. I ran the RCAs under the carpet, over the hump in the back seat footwell and around the corner then up through the carpet where the sensor plug for the driver's seat comes through. I shortened my existing power and remote leads and ran them under the carpet and up through a slit. There was a common ground point for a factory wiring loom under the carpet by the front left bolt hole for the seat rail so I grounded the amp there using a spade connector. I cut another slit to run the speaker wire through and under the carpet and into the trunk on the driver's side. I cut about 2 inches off the little air duct under the seat so it wasn't right up against the amp (after the picture was taken). Bonus, ventilation for the amp!

Results:

To say the difference is night and day would be an understatement. First of all, the pops are all gone. The amp still cycles on and off a few times after the car is turned off (I noticed the power light cycling) but there is no more noise. The SSL obviously didn't have silent off/on so this was worth the upgrade by itself. The bigger surprise is how much the sound has improved. I was thinking about upgrading my 8" to a Fosgate shallow mount 10" to get a little more output but that will definitely not be necessary unless I somehow blow the 8". The SSL was turned up to about 80% and output was...acceptable. I couldn't go higher because of heat and distortion/clipping. I started with the MTX at half gain, bass boost at 10db and the Low pass filter on and set at around 120Hz. I figured the MTX would sound noticeably better but the clarity and output were insane compared to before. I've built a lot of systems in the last 20 years) and the output of this cheap Boss sub is pretty shocking. That SSL was probably putting out all of 20 shitty watts and is going in the trash. The MTX is CEA-2006 certified so I am most assuredly getting the full 200 watts out of it. I had to dial the bass boost down to about 5db, gain down to about 40% and low pass down to about 80hz because the rest of the system couldn't keep up (yet the sub wasn't showing any signs of overexcursion). Bass on the head unit is up about 3/4 of the way so I can get some depth out of the mids in the doors, mids are neutral, highs are maxed (man our tweeters suck). Now I have it dialed in and it's still enough to rattle the rear and side view mirrors when in balance with the rest of the system, and I know for a fact that it has much more in reserve.

I paid as much for the "new" MTX amp as I did for the old one so I'm calling that a write off. The line level converter was $15 so I am still around $100 total for my install and the results are above and beyond the original iteration.

14424 Line level converter

14425 Common ground point

14426 Amplifier wired.

chicagoslick
05-02-2017, 07:27 AM
Nice job with the install.

antarctica24
05-04-2017, 08:20 AM
***Update*** Jump to page 3 for detailed revisions.

Ok. Let's face it. The Sony stereo sucks. We all know it. It's poorly thought out and even more poorly executed. The sound is flat, even with the adjustments maxed, your arm blocks the drivers side tweeters if it's up on the window sill, the sound stage is too low and wide because the tweeters are too far back in the door, etc. etc. Most glaring of all is the lack of bass. There are lots of threads on sub upgrades around here but this is mine. A little background on me, I was an IASCA competitor and SQ judge back in the mid 90's with sponsorships from Streetwires and Oz Audio. I used to dump a lot of money and resources into cars to win trophies. This is not one of those systems. I am much older and, currently, much poorer. If money was no object I know all the things I'd do to make the cabina place of sonic euphoria but this is a test to see how much improvement in sound a minimum investment can make. Also, I wanted to have the entire system fit under the rear cover with room still for my road emergency kit, Get Home Bag, and California Car Duster. All this plus a cost of under $100. I knew I'd be sacrificing on some things, which kills my soul after what I'm used to running, but taking a hit on brand snobbery was worth it to improve my daily commute. So here goes...

Sub - Boss Audio CXX8. 8" subwoofer, "600" watts, 4 ohm SVC, seals in .35. cubic feet. $26 on amazon.
Amp - SoundStorm SMCM200. Monoblock, 2 ohm stable, 200 watt class A/B amplifier. $29 on amazon
Wiring - Boss Audio Kit Zero 10 gauge wiring kit. $10 on Amazon
Wood - 2x4' sheet of 1/2" MDF. $10 at Home Depot
Carpeting - Roll of black automotive carpet. $10 at AutoZone.

So, all in all I'm on the hook for about $85 in materials, about half the price of a cheap super shallow powered sub. Granted, I had other things like glue, fasteners, RCA block, etc on hand that would add to others' cost, so YMMV.

I used the calculator at carstereo.com to figure out my box volume. I made it just big enough to tuck in by the passenger side rear tail light. External dimensions were 17" x 10.5" x 5", giving me an internal volume of about half a cubic foot. This will give me the ability to upgrade a small volume 10" sub down the road if I want to upgrade. I constructed the box using Gorilla glue and an 18ga finishing nailer. I figure that this should be adequate for a cheap 8" and would save the risk of splitting the thin MDF with screws. If I move to a 10 I can always go back and pre-drill/screw it together between the nails then.

10197

10198

Tomorrow I'll wire up the amp and get it installed and we'll see what happens.

Very impressive sir on the massive restraint. Good work on the box, and should work pretty good to add some bass to the car.

Stormy
05-05-2017, 03:34 PM
Thanks guys. I'm very happy with the end result, both sonically and aesthetically. I have a bass knob on order for the amp as well so I can tweak it on the fly. After that I think I'm going to try a tweeter upgrade. The stock ones are just so flat and lifeless.

Stormy
06-09-2017, 05:46 PM
Update June 9, 2017 - I think I popped the sub. I have (had?) discovered crazy unexpected levels output from this sub and it still sounded clean. Rear and side view mirrors were shaking and it was kicking like a baby mule. Well I turned the car off and ran a quick errand and came back and no bass. It was hot out and I thought my amp had gone thermal but I checked it and it's still lit and getting signal as far as I can tell, and the fuses are all good. It cooled down and still so sound. Then I remembered that I put a 5 gallon bucket of paint Probably like 75 lbs) right on top of the sub. I am positive I crushed the cargo deck onto it and then cranked it up on the way to the next stop. The cone was pinned and I burned up the VC. That little Boss was better than I ever would have imagined and I could be totally happy ordering another one, especially now that they're only $20, but I have a little cash in my pocket so I'm going to upgrade to a Fosgate P3SD2-8 for $100. Better build, better brand, CEA Certified, and will have a little more room in the same box (seals in .25 vs .35 for the Boss) so I should get better extension. The cutout diameter is slightly larger so on the slim chance I don't like it I may not be able to drop another boss in the same box but I can just build another one. I should have the Fosgate in on Monday and I'll post an update.

chicagoslick
06-09-2017, 07:35 PM
Your amp may have caused the blown woofer. MTX amps are known for putting out highly distorted signals. Get a tonal reference cd, a meter, and spend some time setting up the gains to ensure you are not clipping the amp. Best of luck...

Stormy
06-19-2017, 06:14 PM
Update: It was definitely the sub. I verified it with a meter. No resistance. Anyhow, I put the Fosgate in and I'm back up and running. The bass from the Fosgate is much tighter than the Boss was. Output is about the same. I know some of that will change after some break in. The magnet on the Fosgate is bigger and the dish on the cone is far more shallow than the Boss, and overall it's shorter than the Boss. The build quality is clearly much better. I have it wired for a 4 ohm mono load (It's 2ohm DVC).

I haven't known MTX amps to have dirty output, at least not their better amps. The TC is CEA-2006 certified and I have the gain set conservatively so I'm pretty confident that the Boss just died a premature death because I crushed it with that paint bucket.

I still say that for the money the CXX8 is an absolute bargain and I would recommend it for anyone on a budget. It probably would have run forever if I had been more careful.

chicagoslick
06-19-2017, 07:37 PM
Great job on getting the system back up and running.

antarctica24
06-20-2017, 05:08 AM
Your amp may have caused the blown woofer. MTX amps are known for putting out highly distorted signals. Get a tonal reference cd, a meter, and spend some time setting up the gains to ensure you are not clipping the amp. Best of luck...

Ummm where are you getting this information? I'm glad he figured it out, but even if he hadn't the sub is definitely the problem. Boss is one step up from radio shack as a brand. It is right their with Craig and pb. Rockford is on the same level build wise as jlaudio in regards to subs. Mtx is on the same build level as pioneer and Kenwood. If you had a mtx amp that was distorted more than likely it was not installed correctly or it was being fed a junk signal.

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 08:45 AM
Ummm where are you getting this information? I'm glad he figured it out, but even if he hadn't the sub is definitely the problem. Boss is one step up from radio shack as a brand. It is right their with Craig and pb. Rockford is on the same level build wise as jlaudio in regards to subs. Mtx is on the same build level as pioneer and Kenwood. If you had a mtx amp that was distorted more than likely it was not installed correctly or it was being fed a junk signal.

Just my experience and others I have been friends with for years. All have stated they are "dirty" amps. Now, with that said, they have always been pretty powerful. Most speaker failures are the result of distorted signals, weak or stressed components, improper enclosure, or over / under amplification. Just my experience.

antarctica24
06-20-2017, 10:11 AM
Just my experience and others I have been friends with for years. All have stated they are "dirty" amps. Now, with that said, they have always been pretty powerful. Most speaker failures are the result of distorted signals, weak or stressed components, improper enclosure, or over / under amplification. Just my experience.

I'm not questioning that assumption. Most amps don't create distortion on their own. Most of the time is due to the signal going to the amp. Amps for the most part do nothing more than take a signal and amplify it. Yes there are good and bad amps. But in this situation his problem started with what he bought as a sub. Boss is at the bottom of the food chain and the products they make are sub standard no pun intended. It seemed like your were going straight after the amp and looking at kickers low level line at 14.4 volts thd is less than 1% and signal to noise is a weighted at greater than 95db. These specs are normal for a typical class d amp. So while not perfect not junk.

For am amp to be responsible for damaging a sub on its own would be profound. Normally speakers can handle well about their rated power in peak situations as long as the signal is clean. So while it would have been possible that what he was listening to was distorted or the signal from the head unit to the amp was distored it would be like finding a mouse on the moon remote chance that the amp caused his sub to have a problem. Amps do go bad I have seen the catch of fire right in front me, but in this case it was the junk sub.

Stormy
06-20-2017, 02:37 PM
Some pictures. Sorry about the mess, lots of home projects happening. I thought I post some comparison pics of the old vs new sub and a photo of the finished box. The trim ring for the new sub adds a lot of height so it's a very tight fit under the rear deck now but I think the lack of protection may have contributed to the premature death of the old sub. I had a 5 gallon bucket of paint in the trunk and I think it may have pressed the deck down onto the speaker surround. I had to take the padding off of the bottom of the deck cover to make sure there was a little bit of clearance but if I put something heavy in the trunk again it should help to keep the sub safe. I'll also be more careful not to bump it with a heavy load in the trunk in the future.

14851
14852
14850

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 03:10 PM
I'm not questioning that assumption. Most amps don't create distortion on their own. Most of the time is due to the signal going to the amp. Amps for the most part do nothing more than take a signal and amplify it. Yes there are good and bad amps. But in this situation his problem started with what he bought as a sub. Boss is at the bottom of the food chain and the products they make are sub standard no pun intended. It seemed like your were going straight after the amp and looking at kickers low level line at 14.4 volts thd is less than 1% and signal to noise is a weighted at greater than 95db. These specs are normal for a typical class d amp. So while not perfect not junk.

For am amp to be responsible for damaging a sub on its own would be profound. Normally speakers can handle well about their rated power in peak situations as long as the signal is clean. So while it would have been possible that what he was listening to was distorted or the signal from the head unit to the amp was distored it would be like finding a mouse on the moon remote chance that the amp caused his sub to have a problem. Amps do go bad I have seen the catch of fire right in front me, but in this case it was the junk sub.

Actually, I was going after incorrectly set gains, not a bad amp. If gains are not set correctly any amp can blow a speaker. Again my experience and "my opinion" (just as many of my friends) is that MTX amps while powerful are dirty amps. I did not Google, like I'm guessing you did, the specifications on MTX amps. I am speaking from my experience, and as I stated my friends experience, alone. MTX amps are not bad amps. If the gains are not set correctly, the signal good or bad will be amplified or attenuated.

If the gains are not set correctly (high gains can cause clipping and / or distortion) with his amp the RF sub will be exposed to the same risk of failure.

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 03:16 PM
Hopefully you have identified your problem and will be good to go now. Great job...

antarctica24
06-20-2017, 03:48 PM
Actually, I was going after incorrectly set gains, not a bad amp. If gains are not set correctly any amp can blow a speaker. Again my experience and "my opinion" (just as many of my friends) is that MTX amps while powerful are dirty amps. I did not Google, like I'm guessing you did, the specifications on MTX amps. I am speaking from my experience, and as I stated my friends experience, alone. MTX amps are not bad amps. If the gains are not set correctly, the signal good or bad will be amplified or attenuated.

If the gains are not set correctly (high gains can cause clipping and / or distortion) with his amp the RF sub will be exposed to the same risk of failure.

An incorrectly set gain control can absolutely cause a amp to distort. But that kicker has dirty sounding amps, I'm not a fan of kicker just disagree with the assessment of you and your friends on that brand of amp. I think it is more likely in the past the gains have not been set correctly on the kicker amps you were using and thus an assumption was made. And it's ok 99% of the people who install after market amps don't have the first clue how to properly setup the gain on an amp. And if you tried to do it without a volt meter you definitely didn't do it correctly. If send enough signal voltage to the amp you can turn the gain completely off then you don't have to worry about it. 😀

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 05:58 PM
Setting gains correctly was one of the main points of my post and we at least agree on that...

We can agree to disagree on the rest...

Stormy
06-20-2017, 06:09 PM
The saga continues. I think I'm going to have to build another box for this sub, or at least try it in another box. I know it's still not broken in but I have far more flat spots in the spectrum with the new sub, and while it sounds good at moderate volumes it sounds like there some excursion when I try to push it. Per the specs it should play well in .25 to .5 cubic feet and the box it's in is around .35 so it should be ok but something's not right. The hole for the Boss was slightly larger so I may be leaking air despite being screwed down tight. Maybe it needs to be in .25 for better cone control. On the bright side, a smaller box will fit even better give more clearance above the cone, plus I can make sure the cutout is the right size. On the minus side, I have to build a new box. haha.

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 08:26 PM
The saga continues. I think I'm going to have to build another box for this sub, or at least try it in another box. I know it's still not broken in but I have far more flat spots in the spectrum with the new sub, and while it sounds good at moderate volumes it sounds like there some excursion when I try to push it. Per the specs it should play well in .25 to .5 cubic feet and the box it's in is around .35 so it should be ok but something's not right. The hole for the Boss was slightly larger so I may be leaking air despite being screwed down tight. Maybe it needs to be in .25 for better cone control. On the bright side, a smaller box will fit even better give more clearance above the cone, plus I can make sure the cutout is the right size. On the minus side, I have to build a new box. haha.

Sorry to hear you are still working through it. I'm sure you will get it finally.

chicagoslick
06-20-2017, 08:28 PM
An incorrectly set gain control can absolutely cause a amp to distort. But that kicker has dirty sounding amps, I'm not a fan of kicker just disagree with the assessment of you and your friends on that brand of amp. I think it is more likely in the past the gains have not been set correctly on the kicker amps you were using and thus an assumption was made. And it's ok 99% of the people who install after market amps don't have the first clue how to properly setup the gain on an amp. And if you tried to do it without a volt meter you definitely didn't do it correctly. If send enough signal voltage to the amp you can turn the gain completely off then you don't have to worry about it.

I'm guessing you meant MTX and not Kicker as you stated above, right!?!

antarctica24
06-20-2017, 11:32 PM
It doesn't matter same story different amp, kicker, mtx, pioneer, Kenwood are the small thing with 1% of each other. Audio is broken down into tiers for retailers. Level a is your Walmarts, level b is you best buy level c are you car audio and home chains as best buy is a level b/c but their magnolia stores are level d. The top of the food chain.

Level c is your upper end car audio and home audio retailers. Like car toys and Freeman's and the like. Level d is reserved for speciality. A majority of the different lines use a lot of the same components but remove features to meet price points. An amp is nothing more than a device that amplifies a signal. Several test have been done to show when they are setup correctly humans cannot tell the difference. Richard Clark and audio engineer out of Burlington NC did that test. He offer a 10,000 reward for anyone who could come and while blindfolded distinguish between the amps. Over 100 people came to take that challenge including some friends of mine who I have judged with for better than 10 years and no one ever collected that money.

So if that's the case why have focal, Alpine, audison, dls, zapco, jlaudio? Amplifing signal is not enough. These amps focus on power outout, and clean throughput. Someone also mentions their amp was cea rated so it was better. The cea standard came about to reel in amp manufactures that were making stupid power claims. Like a 2 channel 5000 watt amp for $150.00. the standard requires your amps to be tested and show their actual output per channel at 12v and at 14.4 volts. The major players came up with cea to help better sell their stuff.

You'll like this, most speakers, cost less than $25.00 to make each. Yep the same ones that you can find at madisound that their selling for 300.00 each. Those 770.00 focal drivers 25.00 each or less. Electronics industry is one of the biggest scams on the market today. Furniture is number 2 at a 300% markup and jewelry is 500% is number 1.

I've been in this industry over 25 years and 7 of them was owning a shop and selling all of the brands mentioned and then some. Why? Because of people like you and your friends who go around telling people certain brands are noisy. Everybody is different. Everybody has their own personal taste. But the best part about selling a specific brand is that if one guy buys it and you set it up right he lays waste to everyone of his friends and they all came running to get what he had, except for the one you pointed in a different direction and you start this war between them on which one is better, cleaner, louder, hits harder. Their all the same. I can take any setup you want give me, anything, and if I pick the processor, I can beat the sound quality of anything you want to bring to the table. Everytime. The only difference is what I start with and how far I have to go to get to the end. You go right ahead and keep thinking kicker or mtx is distored or muddy or not a sclean as that pioneer. Some car audio shop is laughing all the way to the bank.

chicagoslick
06-21-2017, 05:28 AM
It doesn't matter same story different amp, kicker, mtx, pioneer, Kenwood are the small thing with 1% of each other. Audio is broken down into tiers for retailers. Level a is your Walmarts, level b is you best buy level c are you car audio and home chains as best buy is a level b/c but their magnolia stores are level d. The top of the food chain.

Level c is your upper end car audio and home audio retailers. Like car toys and Freeman's and the like. Level d is reserved for speciality. A majority of the different lines use a lot of the same components but remove features to meet price points. An amp is nothing more than a device that amplifies a signal. Several test have been done to show when they are setup correctly humans cannot tell the difference. Richard Clark and audio engineer out of Burlington NC did that test. He offer a 10,000 reward for anyone who could come and while blindfolded distinguish between the amps. Over 100 people came to take that challenge including some friends of mine who I have judged with for better than 10 years and no one ever collected that money.

So if that's the case why have focal, Alpine, audison, dls, zapco, jlaudio? Amplifing signal is not enough. These amps focus on power outout, and clean throughput. Someone also mentions their amp was cea rated so it was better. The cea standard came about to reel in amp manufactures that were making stupid power claims. Like a 2 channel 5000 watt amp for $150.00. the standard requires your amps to be tested and show their actual output per channel at 12v and at 14.4 volts. The major players came up with cea to help better sell their stuff.

You'll like this, most speakers, cost less than $25.00 to make each. Yep the same ones that you can find at madisound that their selling for 300.00 each. Those 770.00 focal drivers 25.00 each or less. Electronics industry is one of the biggest scams on the market today. Furniture is number 2 at a 300% markup and jewelry is 500% is number 1.

I've been in this industry over 25 years and 7 of them was owning a shop and selling all of the brands mentioned and then some. Why? Because of people like you and your friends who go around telling people certain brands are noisy. Everybody is different. Everybody has their own personal taste. But the best part about selling a specific brand is that if one guy buys it and you set it up right he lays waste to everyone of his friends and they all came running to get what he had, except for the one you pointed in a different direction and you start this war between them on which one is better, cleaner, louder, hits harder. Their all the same. I can take any setup you want give me, anything, and if I pick the processor, I can beat the sound quality of anything you want to bring to the table. Everytime. The only difference is what I start with and how far I have to go to get to the end. You go right ahead and keep thinking kicker or mtx is distored or muddy or not a sclean as that pioneer. Some car audio shop is laughing all the way to the bank.

Ok, so I never attacked you or your opinion or facts in most instances. I too, can Google all of the stuff you wrote above and in many other posts you have made. I was purely stating my opinion having had MTX amps in the past and the experiences I (and some of my friends) had with their amps. One of the main points I was making was to ensure correct setup, which you clearly fail to acknowledge.

Spend more time actually reading and understanding what is written before you attack someone...

chicagoslick
06-21-2017, 05:28 AM
It doesn't matter same story different amp, kicker, mtx, pioneer, Kenwood are the small thing with 1% of each other. Audio is broken down into tiers for retailers. Level a is your Walmarts, level b is you best buy level c are you car audio and home chains as best buy is a level b/c but their magnolia stores are level d. The top of the food chain.

Level c is your upper end car audio and home audio retailers. Like car toys and Freeman's and the like. Level d is reserved for speciality. A majority of the different lines use a lot of the same components but remove features to meet price points. An amp is nothing more than a device that amplifies a signal. Several test have been done to show when they are setup correctly humans cannot tell the difference. Richard Clark and audio engineer out of Burlington NC did that test. He offer a 10,000 reward for anyone who could come and while blindfolded distinguish between the amps. Over 100 people came to take that challenge including some friends of mine who I have judged with for better than 10 years and no one ever collected that money.

So if that's the case why have focal, Alpine, audison, dls, zapco, jlaudio? Amplifing signal is not enough. These amps focus on power outout, and clean throughput. Someone also mentions their amp was cea rated so it was better. The cea standard came about to reel in amp manufactures that were making stupid power claims. Like a 2 channel 5000 watt amp for $150.00. the standard requires your amps to be tested and show their actual output per channel at 12v and at 14.4 volts. The major players came up with cea to help better sell their stuff.

You'll like this, most speakers, cost less than $25.00 to make each. Yep the same ones that you can find at madisound that their selling for 300.00 each. Those 770.00 focal drivers 25.00 each or less. Electronics industry is one of the biggest scams on the market today. Furniture is number 2 at a 300% markup and jewelry is 500% is number 1.

I've been in this industry over 25 years and 7 of them was owning a shop and selling all of the brands mentioned and then some. Why? Because of people like you and your friends who go around telling people certain brands are noisy. Everybody is different. Everybody has their own personal taste. But the best part about selling a specific brand is that if one guy buys it and you set it up right he lays waste to everyone of his friends and they all came running to get what he had, except for the one you pointed in a different direction and you start this war between them on which one is better, cleaner, louder, hits harder. Their all the same. I can take any setup you want give me, anything, and if I pick the processor, I can beat the sound quality of anything you want to bring to the table. Everytime. The only difference is what I start with and how far I have to go to get to the end. You go right ahead and keep thinking kicker or mtx is distored or muddy or not a sclean as that pioneer. Some car audio shop is laughing all the way to the bank.

Ok, so I never attacked you or your opinion or facts in most instances. I too, can Google all of the stuff you wrote above and in many other posts you have made. I was purely stating my opinion having had MTX amps in the past and the experiences I (and some of my friends) had with their amps. One of the main points I was making was to ensure correct setup, which you clearly fail to acknowledge.

Spend more time actually reading and understanding what is written before you attack someone...

chicagoslick
06-21-2017, 06:20 AM
The saga continues. I think I'm going to have to build another box for this sub, or at least try it in another box. I know it's still not broken in but I have far more flat spots in the spectrum with the new sub, and while it sounds good at moderate volumes it sounds like there some excursion when I try to push it. Per the specs it should play well in .25 to .5 cubic feet and the box it's in is around .35 so it should be ok but something's not right. The hole for the Boss was slightly larger so I may be leaking air despite being screwed down tight. Maybe it needs to be in .25 for better cone control. On the bright side, a smaller box will fit even better give more clearance above the cone, plus I can make sure the cutout is the right size. On the minus side, I have to build a new box. haha.

Stormy, I was looking at your pictures and have a suggestion on your box build. Do not place the sub on top of the carpet when you screw it down. It will not seal well doing that. Take time to cut the carpet back far enough to allow the sub to seat onto the MDF board. When I install my subs I also use silicon caulk (kitchen and bathroom clear, not window caulk) and spread it thinly around that area letting it dry before I place the sub in place. This will help ensure a tight seal. When building your box make sure you build it to the speaker specifications if you can, which you stated you were going to try and do. I never use less than 3/4" MDF, in my install I actually used 1", reinforcing the corners. Ensure you seal and glue all seams well. There are some really good youtube videos on speaker enclosure builds by some reputable installers. Mark at https://www.youtube.com/user/CarAudioFabrication and Matt at https://www.youtube.com/user/hkoitmtmiye are reputable installers you can trust guidance from.

Best of luck and sorry for having the back and forth with antartica24. I am done with that.

antarctica24
06-21-2017, 07:55 AM
Ok, so I never attacked you or your opinion or facts in most instances. I too, can Google all of the stuff you wrote above and in many other posts you have made. I was purely stating my opinion having had MTX amps in the past and the experiences I (and some of my friends) had with their amps. One of the main points I was making was to ensure correct setup, which you clearly fail to acknowledge.

Spend more time actually reading and understanding what is written before you attack someone...

So what is it that you think I had to Google? Anything Ive said any manufacturer can explain to you. It is how it's setup. It how the industry had been setup for the last 35 years or more. Back in 99 when I had my first shop we were looking into branding our on line and private labeling our own speakers. Their used to be two companies here I. The us that we're building speakers. They had about 100 different baskets and hundreds of cone configurations. It was about 25.00 to build the prototype. Then in quantities of more than 20 it started to go down from there. Now, almost all of that is done in Singapore, China and Hong Kong. Scott buwalda who owns hybrid goes to China to get his made, Chris dragon from hatmon they get theirs made in China, Andy wheymeyer over at frog audio China, Fred Lynch over at arc audio China. I don't need Google for any of it. And I'm trolling you I'm just telling you like it is. You don't have to be embarrassed it's just the way the industry is setup. Didn't mean hurt your pride. And its ok to be wrong. People are wrong all the time. I was wrong about the fiesta being a maf tuned car. Unfortunately not wrong about the audio stuff. Now you've already said you've made your last post, man up and let it go.

Stormy
06-21-2017, 08:13 AM
Stormy, I was looking at your pictures and have a suggestion on your box build. Do not place the sub on top of the carpet when you screw it down. It will not seal well doing that. Take time to cut the carpet back far enough to allow the sub to seat onto the MDF board. When I install my subs I also use silicon caulk (kitchen and bathroom clear, not window caulk) and spread it thinly around that area letting it dry before I place the sub in place. This will help ensure a tight seal. When building your box make sure you build it to the speaker specifications if you can, which you stated you were going to try and do. I never use less than 3/4" MDF, in my install I actually used 1", reinforcing the corners. Ensure you seal and glue all seams well. There are some really good youtube videos on speaker enclosure builds by some reputable installers. Mark at https://www.youtube.com/user/CarAudioFabrication and Matt at https://www.youtube.com/user/hkoitmtmiye are reputable installers you can trust guidance from.

Best of luck and sorry for having the back and forth with antartica24. I am done with that.

It's all good. It's nice to have some other folks with experience in here. I know I'm building a cheap setup here but I also have almost 25 years of history with car audio. Back in the mid to late 90's I was an IASCA sound quality judge and competitor, sponsored by Oz Audio and StreetWires. I took some awards in 151-300 class, running Soundstream Class A amps and a lot of AudioControl processors. Used to do fiberglass and plexi work too. Those days are behind me for the most part. I just strive for a balance of "not terrible" and "not annoying the wife by investing too much in gear". Haha. Eventually I'll add an amp or switch to a 4 channel and upgrade the door drivers and relocate the tweeters to A pillar pods or pods in the A pillar window pockets.

I know all too well the markup on most drivers. That's why I was fine to roll the dice on the Boss sub. I knew better on that SSL amp but it was a $25 science experiment.

Thanks for the box building advice. On subs 10 and larger I will do 3/4" and route an inset for the ring then seal to the wood. For that cheap 8 I had no issues with sealing to carpet. I also used 1/2" mdf because I had it handy and because in order to get the box to fit where it did 3/4" wouldn't quite get me the internal volume/mounting depth I needed. It was glued and braced and solid enough for the Boss. The new box can and will be 3/4" since it'll smaller and I'll mount to the wood.

Oh, and I'm not sure I'd consider car toys or even Magnolia top tier shops. They sell some decent equipment but I've seen a lot of their work and it's typically mediocre. They're second tier generally, unless they happen to have a real good guy in the shop. Most of the really good shops are small, passionate independents.

jmrtsus
06-21-2017, 03:12 PM
It doesn't matter same story different amp, kicker, mtx, pioneer, Kenwood are the small thing with 1% of each other. Audio is broken down into tiers for retailers. Level a is your Walmarts, level b is you best buy level c are you car audio and home chains as best buy is a level b/c but their magnolia stores are level d. The top of the food chain.

Level c is your upper end car audio and home audio retailers. Like car toys and Freeman's and the like. Level d is reserved for speciality. A majority of the different lines use a lot of the same components but remove features to meet price points. An amp is nothing more than a device that amplifies a signal. Several test have been done to show when they are setup correctly humans cannot tell the difference. Richard Clark and audio engineer out of Burlington NC did that test. He offer a 10,000 reward for anyone who could come and while blindfolded distinguish between the amps. Over 100 people came to take that challenge including some friends of mine who I have judged with for better than 10 years and no one ever collected that money.

So if that's the case why have focal, Alpine, audison, dls, zapco, jlaudio? Amplifing signal is not enough. These amps focus on power outout, and clean throughput. Someone also mentions their amp was cea rated so it was better. The cea standard came about to reel in amp manufactures that were making stupid power claims. Like a 2 channel 5000 watt amp for $150.00. the standard requires your amps to be tested and show their actual output per channel at 12v and at 14.4 volts. The major players came up with cea to help better sell their stuff.

You'll like this, most speakers, cost less than $25.00 to make each. Yep the same ones that you can find at madisound that their selling for 300.00 each. Those 770.00 focal drivers 25.00 each or less. Electronics industry is one of the biggest scams on the market today. Furniture is number 2 at a 300% markup and jewelry is 500% is number 1.

I've been in this industry over 25 years and 7 of them was owning a shop and selling all of the brands mentioned and then some. Why? Because of people like you and your friends who go around telling people certain brands are noisy. Everybody is different. Everybody has their own personal taste. But the best part about selling a specific brand is that if one guy buys it and you set it up right he lays waste to everyone of his friends and they all came running to get what he had, except for the one you pointed in a different direction and you start this war between them on which one is better, cleaner, louder, hits harder. Their all the same. I can take any setup you want give me, anything, and if I pick the processor, I can beat the sound quality of anything you want to bring to the table. Everytime. The only difference is what I start with and how far I have to go to get to the end. You go right ahead and keep thinking kicker or mtx is distored or muddy or not a sclean as that pioneer. Some car audio shop is laughing all the way to the bank.

As a wholesale gem dealer and retired Jewelry store owner the standard markup in the industry is 300%, "triple key" it is called. This is why you see so many 50% off sales in jewelry stores......they still make a 50% profit on a 50% off sale! Custom mounting catalogs show a tiny symbol of three keys so the store knows their cost is 1/3 the listed price printed for the customer. Markup in wholesale colored gemstone can vary much higher for the more rare stuff, up to and over ten times my cost. Diamonds can be had with little markup at the wholesale level.

antarctica24
06-21-2017, 04:08 PM
Wow you are a multifaceted Individual you taught audio for 30 years and owned your own jewelry wholesale company. So I was off on the markup...REALLY??????? Don't you have something better to do?

chicagoslick
06-21-2017, 09:21 PM
It's all good. It's nice to have some other folks with experience in here. I know I'm building a cheap setup here but I also have almost 25 years of history with car audio. Back in the mid to late 90's I was an IASCA sound quality judge and competitor, sponsored by Oz Audio and StreetWires. I took some awards in 151-300 class, running Soundstream Class A amps and a lot of AudioControl processors. Used to do fiberglass and plexi work too. Those days are behind me for the most part. I just strive for a balance of "not terrible" and "not annoying the wife by investing too much in gear". Haha. Eventually I'll add an amp or switch to a 4 channel and upgrade the door drivers and relocate the tweeters to A pillar pods or pods in the A pillar window pockets.

I know all too well the markup on most drivers. That's why I was fine to roll the dice on the Boss sub. I knew better on that SSL amp but it was a $25 science experiment.

Thanks for the box building advice. On subs 10 and larger I will do 3/4" and route an inset for the ring then seal to the wood. For that cheap 8 I had no issues with sealing to carpet. I also used 1/2" mdf because I had it handy and because in order to get the box to fit where it did 3/4" wouldn't quite get me the internal volume/mounting depth I needed. It was glued and braced and solid enough for the Boss. The new box can and will be 3/4" since it'll smaller and I'll mount to the wood.

Oh, and I'm not sure I'd consider car toys or even Magnolia top tier shops. They sell some decent equipment but I've seen a lot of their work and it's typically mediocre. They're second tier generally, unless they happen to have a real good guy in the shop. Most of the really good shops are small, passionate independents.

I'm sure it is going to work out well for you. Keep us updated...

Stormy
06-27-2017, 11:14 PM
Slapped together a new box today. 3/4" MDF, screwed and glued. I was able to toy with the dimensions and ended up with outer specs of 19 x 10.5 x 4.5 for a volume of .27. It made a massive difference. No more overexcursion, smoother curve, higher peak volume. I also have much better clearance below the cargo deck. The cutout for the Boss was 1/4" larger than the RF needed so the new sub probably wasn't sealing well, especially against the carpet, so I'm guessing leakage was the prime issue. The new box is carpet-free so far but I'll cover it tomorrow and then post pics of the whole thing. Th RF seems about on par with the Boss now, output-wise. It's still tighter sounding and doesn't blend in with the doors as well. I think it's a result of the RF being more damped and having twice the magnet. It still doesn't hum as hard as the Boss in some of the same ranges of familiar music but that's to be expected. Heck, differences were pretty noticeable in the RF by itself between the two boxes. According to the specs for this box I am -3db at 49Hz. Not sure where the Boss was. Anyhow, I'm pretty pleased overall but just for grins I think I'm going to drop another Boss in the old box and do an A/B listen to see which box I actually prefer and then sell the other.

chicagoslick
06-28-2017, 07:25 AM
Slapped together a new box today. 3/4" MDF, screwed and glued. I was able to toy with the dimensions and ended up with outer specs of 19 x 10.5 x 4.5 for a volume of .27. It made a massive difference. No more overexcursion, smoother curve, higher peak volume. I also have much better clearance below the cargo deck. The cutout for the Boss was 1/4" larger than the RF needed so the new sub probably wasn't sealing well, especially against the carpet, so I'm guessing leakage was the prime issue. The new box is carpet-free so far but I'll cover it tomorrow and then post pics of the whole thing. Th RF seems about on par with the Boss now, output-wise. It's still tighter sounding and doesn't blend in with the doors as well. I think it's a result of the RF being more damped and having twice the magnet. It still doesn't hum as hard as the Boss in some of the same ranges of familiar music but that's to be expected. Heck, differences were pretty noticeable in the RF by itself between the two boxes. According to the specs for this box I am -3db at 49Hz. Not sure where the Boss was. Anyhow, I'm pretty pleased overall but just for grins I think I'm going to drop another Boss in the old box and do an A/B listen to see which box I actually prefer and then sell the other.

Great to hear Stormy. Best of luck and keep us posted as your system progresses.

Stormy
06-28-2017, 08:14 PM
OK, so I carpeted, cleaned up the wiring and gave the box a good stuffing of fiberfill. I forgot to take pictures of the box before carpet. Sorry. I did get a pic of the old box and new box next to each other just for comparison, though.

14989

I spent about 45 minutes in the car tuning the amp and doing a lot of subjective listening through a wider range of music and I am very pleased. It sounded like crap at first but it turns out that I just had phase reversed. Once I switched the leads it came alive, as expected. It blends far better now with a broad range of music. It eats pop and dance alive, very impressive. It does an admirable job of adding depth to rock and metal. Better mid/midbass will be a greater asset in that category. Most hip hop and drum & bass sound good as long as it doesn't dig or sweep too deep. Being an 8 it rolls off pretty hard below 30-35 Hz.

14988

I'm already considering what's next. Time to upgrade components and relocate the tweeters, I think. I mocked up some plates for the a-pillar windows. Gotta get my router back from a friend and then I'll make some proper ones and maybe do some fiberglass work. I did a lot of listening at Car Toys and I'm really feeling the Alpine SPS-610c components. They sounded better than anything until you got up into the top Focal sets. The tweeters were crisp but warm and had good character and the mids rendered nicely and didn't sound boxy or flat. After that, I'm really tempted to get into the JL-Audio Fix and TwK processors. This may become a slippery slope.

*edit* I've started a new thread titled "System upgrade on a budget" dedicated to the rest of my build.

Stormy
06-29-2017, 03:33 AM
So I just learned about the factory DSP rolling off the lows so I'm guessing my sub is not reaching full potential. It's only an 8 so I'm probably not losing much depth but I'm sure it's having a noticeable effect. I feel a bit silly.

Stormy
07-12-2017, 05:00 PM
Just did the Forscan DSP bypass. Had a noticeable effect on the stock speakers and a dramatic effect on the sub. No more obnoxious peaks and dips in the response. Everything is smooth and more alive. Very pleased with the results and I recommend this to anyone adding a sub to their system.

chicagoslick
07-12-2017, 07:08 PM
Glad to hear stormy. I do have some words of caution with doing this. There are many reasons the stock system has been tuned the way it is. It not only makes the stock speakers work best within the installed location it also does not overdrive them. Additionally, the tune is for allowing the other parts of the system like navigation, phone, and voice commands to operate correctly. Also, power capability of the head unit can be pushed causing the head unit to get hotter than expected. Not saying any of this will happen, just want you to know potential side affects.

Now with all of that stated above, if the primary reason is to send the speaker signals to a DSP or LOC, then supply the signal out from those to an after market amplifier, you will most likely not have issues.

Stormy
07-13-2017, 12:04 AM
Thanks, Slick. I have given the stock speakers a pretty good pounding and I don't think I'll be blowing them, at least not for the 36 hours or so they'll still be hooked up. I hadn't considered the head unit heat issue, though. Again, should be a non-issue soon enough. Also hadn't thought about the phone, nav, etc. I know that some folks with the FiX units can run into problems with the phone but I've not read anything about people encountering any issues with the override. I don't use the factory nav but I do use Android Auto/Google Maps so I should probably try that. Bluetooth seems to be working fine for audio playback but I should also try making a call. Thanks for the heads-up.

On a side note, overall volume has notably increased without all the nannies. What used to be a 15 on the volume knob is now a 12.

erdna14
07-13-2017, 07:11 AM
This is great news. I'll have to add this to my Forscan to do list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chicagoslick
07-13-2017, 10:11 AM
Thanks, Slick. I have given the stock speakers a pretty good pounding and I don't think I'll be blowing them, at least not for the 36 hours or so they'll still be hooked up. I hadn't considered the head unit heat issue, though. Again, should be a non-issue soon enough. Also hadn't thought about the phone, nav, etc. I know that some folks with the FiX units can run into problems with the phone but I've not read anything about people encountering any issues with the override. I don't use the factory nav but I do use Android Auto/Google Maps so I should probably try that. Bluetooth seems to be working fine for audio playback but I should also try making a call. Thanks for the heads-up.

On a side note, overall volume has notably increased without all the nannies. What used to be a 15 on the volume knob is now a 12.

Stormy,

I know you are pretty good with this stuff, so I figured you were in pretty good shape, but wanted to make sure that others, without this type of knowledge, would be informed.

Glad to hear your system is coming along.

slipcougar
07-16-2017, 11:01 AM
Thanks, Slick. I have given the stock speakers a pretty good pounding and I don't think I'll be blowing them, at least not for the 36 hours or so they'll still be hooked up. I hadn't considered the head unit heat issue, though. Again, should be a non-issue soon enough. Also hadn't thought about the phone, nav, etc. I know that some folks with the FiX units can run into problems with the phone but I've not read anything about people encountering any issues with the override. I don't use the factory nav but I do use Android Auto/Google Maps so I should probably try that. Bluetooth seems to be working fine for audio playback but I should also try making a call. Thanks for the heads-up.

On a side note, overall volume has notably increased without all the nannies. What used to be a 15 on the volume knob is now a 12.

This is great to hear, your setup is looking great! I just finished my own sub install and am now considering this, as I'm about to Forscan it to finish my rear-camera install. I noticed the bump of the sub (and the range) wasn't quite as intense as when I had this in my WRX with an aftermarket Pioneer headunit, but I had it all EQ'd and obviously there was a separate sub output. In the FiST I'm using an LOC and an LPF, which seem to be working quite well, but I'm intrigued by your post. Do you think it's worth it? I feel like the gain on the LOC and AMP are cranked a bit higher than in the previous setup but I haven't noticed any problems thus far. Could any of this have to do with the fact that I've tapped only the right side speaker wiring? I've used LOC's in the past when tapping an OEM headunit but always wired them to both sides. I hadn't seen anyone complain about using just one side in any of my research so I just left it. Anyone have any thoughts?

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