Car has difficulty turning over after recent turbo upgrade and switch to E30

[ericwilliams28]

About a month and a half ago I installed the X37 turbo, along with the colder spark plugs that Tune+ recommends. I also started running an E30 tune from Tune+.

I am having real issues with the car not turning over like it should. When its completely cold, it almost always starts up without a problem. However, once the car is warmed up even a little bit, I am having really bad starting problems. The engine will just crank and crank and crank without turning over. Sometimes I have had to try up to 5x, with at least 7 seconds cranking on each try. I've noticed that if I push the ignition and wait for the gauges to activate before starting, this does seem to help a lot, and will turn over after about 3 seconds of cranking, but this does not always work and it still takes quite a while sometimes. I'm worried that this extended cranking could be reducing the life of the motor, plus its embarrassing as hell to be sitting in a parking lot trying to start your car over and over again. Once the car starts, it runs great, and I have had no other issues. I would say the car has trouble turning over probably 50% of the time once its warm.

Any ideas on what this could be, or where I could start troubleshooting? I am afraid the dealer won't want to touch the car if they knew about the modifications.

Thanks,

 

[razorlab]

Have you asked Adam about this?

What do your current fuel trims look like?

 

[alf45]

If I remember right your not the only one having problem starting the car hot with the colder plug.

 

[MS67]

My car cranks about twice as long when hot, with the colder plugs. But nothing like you are describing.

 

[ericwilliams28]

Have you asked Adam about this?

What do your current fuel trims look like?

I mentioned it during the tuning process (as this is when it appeared) and he said to check the spark plugs, but other than that nothing. I've asked him again for input since this is still occurring.

As far as fuel trims, I've never monitored that before, but I just took it out for a spin. LTFT stays around -11 when cruising, and when I go WOT it goes to -3.91 and stays there. STFT is all over the place, but generally averages around 0 during cruising and also goes to -3.91 at WOT.

 

[frankiefiesta]

My car cranks about twice as long when hot, with the colder plugs. But nothing like you are describing.

This is how my car is.. It's noticeable, but not concerning to me

 

[razorlab]

My 2014 never had problems cranking with the colder plugs. Started up just like stock. That said, I tuned a bunch of the fueling related tables for E40, including cranking.

I haven't put colder yet in my 2016, mainly because COBB hasn't re-released Racetuner yet

I mentioned it during the tuning process (as this is when it appeared) and he said to check the spark plugs, but other than that nothing. I've asked him again for input since this is still occurring.

As far as fuel trims, I've never monitored that before, but I just took it out for a spin. LTFT stays around -11 when cruising, and when I go WOT it goes to -3.91 and stays there. STFT is all over the place, but generally averages around 0 during cruising and also goes to -3.91 at WOT.

What is your LTFT at idle?

 

[ericwilliams28]

What is your LTFT at idle?

Idle is -13.28

 

[razorlab]

Idle is -13.28

Are you sure you put E30 in and not a lower percentage? Sounds like the car has too little ethanol for the tune or the fueling in the tune needs to be adjusted.

I suggest bringing that up with Adam.

 

[15performanceblue]

My car does this as well. it does not always crank that much, but it does give me a few seconds to start when hot. Cyborg turbo with colder plugs. It is pretty normal for us bigger turbo peeps.

 

[ericwilliams28]

Are you sure you put E30 in and not a lower percentage? Sounds like the car has too little ethanol for the tune or the fueling in the tune needs to be adjusted.

I suggest bringing that up with Adam.

I've been using a calculator with the inputs as 10% ethanol for 93oct and 77% for the E85, based on some posts I saw online of some GTR owners with ethanol gauges who have filled up at this same gas station recently. My last fillup was 2.85 gallons of E85 and 6.6 gallons of 93.

I will do my next fillup with 5% ethanol for the 93 and 75% for the E85 on the calculator, we'll see where that puts me. I've emailed Adam today asking for some more help. Appreciate the advice that you have given.

 

[PhoenixM3]

Try loosening your turbo belt.....

 

[haste]

I've had this issue once since the X-37 has been installed. I had just done a lot of stop/go city driving in 95f sunny weather and stopped at the grocery store for 20 minutes or so. When I came back out of the store, it cranked forever before finally starting. I'm guessing its just some sort of heatsoak combined with the colder plugs. Do you let the car idle for a minute before getting out of the car? Recently, I've been trying to let my car idle until the oil temp drops to 185f and I haven't had an extended crank time since.

 

[Jesse]

If only change was turbo and a e30 tune & plugs then this is a tune problem. Turbo has nothing to do with how engine starts and idles so you can forget about problems with it... I would go back to the regular plugs and see if it starts up normally when hot.. I have a e30 tune (stratified) never had any issues at all with startups and its 105-115 most of the summer here in AZ.

If it still has problems starting with the stock plugs then your tuner needs to get a call from you and have him sort the tune out.

 

[Hijinx]

I've been using a calculator with the inputs as 10% ethanol for 93oct and 77% for the E85, based on some posts I saw online of some GTR owners with ethanol gauges who have filled up at this same gas station recently. My last fillup was 2.85 gallons of E85 and 6.6 gallons of 93.

I will do my next fillup with 5% ethanol for the 93 and 75% for the E85 on the calculator, we'll see where that puts me. I've emailed Adam today asking for some more help. Appreciate the advice that you have given.

Easy mode: Run the fuel down until the light comes on; 3.5gal E85. Adam should have the tune setup to tolerate the variance safely.

Edit- check your spark plugs. Go out and pull them and inspect them to make sure there was no damage on install.

 

[Sourskittle]

You'd think warmer engines would be more happy to burn eth. In Brazil they start cars on gas then switch them over to E100 once the engine gets some heat in it.

Hopefully Adam can sort it.

My crackers are on the plugs needing replaced to for whatever ever reason


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[re-rx7]

Interesting....sounds like this could be solved with a better tune. I know a lot of guys with colder plugs in many different applications that don't have any trouble even with Di. Ill be getting my cyborg tuned at cobb. See if there are any problems then...

 

[Rhinopolis]

Running stock plugs and E30 on the X37 (gapped stock plugs myself to .029) and no issues. I did with [MENTION=1076]razorlab[/MENTION] 's help determine that I wasn't getting quite enough ethanol in my E30 mix. I measure my local E85 pump and assuming that my measurement was correct that pump is giving 68% ethanol.

I added more from that pump and until my LTFT settled in to between +3-6 during cruise and WOT.

 

[razorlab]

To the OP:

Put the stock plugs back in and see if the car starts better. Easy thing to check and could narrow down the problem.

 

[ericwilliams28]

I know it's been a while, but I wanted to give an update on this. So the first thing I did was flash the Cobb OTS stage 3 tune back on. Once I did this, the car started up just fine 6x in a row, which is something it would never do before. So this led me to think it's the tune. However, Adam said he has changed nothing regarding the start-up parameters, and in fact that there isn't really anything to change there anyways.

So, taking the fact that multiple people state that the colder spark plugs made starting harder, along with razorlab;s suggestion, I finally swapped the stock plugs back in this past weekend and flashed it back to my final X37 tune. Lo and behold, she starts up great every single time now!

I have no idea why changing the tune back to Cobb had an effect, as well as changing the spark plugs back to stock on Adam's tune. I'm just glad it starts up great every time now. I'll be sticking to stock plugs from here on out. Power is still great, and there have been no timing corrections, so I don't see the need for the colder plugs.