• Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features

    Welcome to the #1 Fiesta ST Forum and Fiesta ST community dedicated to Fiesta ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Fiesta ST Forum today!


What are the REAL numbers?

Messages
287
Likes
62
Location
Clarksville
#1
Alright, I am making this thread because there is always debate and argument over how many horses people are really making.

For example, nearly every single intake system state you are gonna get 10HP increase, but as we all know this is false. 10HP increase is a significant number for a $150-300 mod and you would feel it right?
From there, we have actual videos that show we actually might be losing half a horse by using aftermarket intakes.

Then we have exhausts, again they almost always claim 10Hp increase. Now I know I'm not getting a full 10HP from a catback.


What I wanna know is, what are the REAL numbers. What am I really gaining, and what am I really losing.

If all the makers told the truth then my car should be making 217HP
Stock Ford claims: 197
Intake: (most claim 10HP increase)
Catback: (Again, most claim roughly 10HP increase)


I know that this thread is kinda pointless because we have the Dyno sheet thread. But using a Dyno is expensive and sadly isn't readily available for everyone.
I'm also skeptical of Dyno sheets from the vendors here. Reason for this is that when looking at the Dyno sheets, sure they show some nice numbers, but then upon further inspection of their pictures you may notice that stainless steel tip on their exhaust, or the tell-tale wrinkle on their Injen intake, and sometimes you'll even notice an AP mount with no AP attached to it.

I'm not here to name and shame, or to call out the vendors here. I just wanna know what am I really making. When people ask me about my car I'll tell them I have mods X Y, and Z. But then they ask how much power I'm cranking out this little guy and I don't ever really know what to truly say.

Do I tell them "oh yeah totally packin' 217HP on this bad boy" or do I say "I have no damned idea"?

Again the Dyno sheets I've seen are really awesome, but the ones we have in the Dyno thread are usually paired with a stage tune from the COBB AP and it really helps optimize the bolt ons amongst other mods.
 


BRGT350

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,075
Likes
761
Location
Grand Haven
#2
there are too many factors that come into play when trying to measure actual horsepower and torque gains. People play with the dyno settings to get all sorts of crazy data. Your best bet is to find a dyno sheet from an independent source that has similar modifications. That is a horribly vague answer, but it is probably the best. When I had my 2011 Fiesta with an intake very similar to another on the market and a Borla exhaust, I compared the power increase to what Grassroots Motorsports measured on a 2011 Fiesta with a similar intake and the same exhaust. That happened to work out well since the modifications were a match. With the ST, things aren't so easy since there are dozens of different manufactures and combinations out there that people are running.

When I get asked about my ST, I tend to respond that the car makes 197hp from the factory, and a similar modified version makes about 215. This is based on the parts and tune used for the MP215 kit in which my ST uses a Mountune tune, filter, and modified lower intake box. The car may produce 220hp or 210hp in reality, but the 215hp mark is probably not far off the mark. Besides, without everyone using the same calibrated dyno, nobody really knows. People, especially online, get really hung up on numbers that can easily be skewed and rarely backed up. On my Mustang with the hodgepodge modifications, I consulted with my engine builder and use the range he gave me as a best guess. I am honest and say that it hasn't been on a dyno and the estimate is given in a "best guess" range. Typically people are expecting a numerical response and tend to get confused with adding information, so they tend to walk away after that. People in the know will have a good estimate on your car based on what they see done.
 


Sourskittle

4000 Post Club
Messages
4,567
Likes
860
Location
Lakeland
#3
If I had a full cobb stg3 setup on 93 oct. I'd say "200whp".
Lots of power ago, i made 233whp on the same dyno a stock fost made 218whp on right before me ( ever seen a fost dyno that low? I haven't ).

But its true... Weather has an enormous on your power output. All the other side dishes aside ? Get an intercooler ( deadhook motorsports is the one you should be looking at ), get a protune from panda/freaktune/randy at montune and call it a car. If your interested in upgrading the turbo, weigh the turbo options we have vs your budget and goals.

Intake? Other than noise? The 2J is prob the only one that does anything, but its very loud. Its loud. Or you can pay $150-$300 for a little more noise.

Exhaust? A catless downpipe or just stay stock. Unless your really going to tune the poo out of it, the stock catback is pretty good.

Everyone should be starting with an access port, then an intercooler. Then a pro-tune. If that's just wrecking tires and your still getting your ass kicked, look into turbo upgrades and budget the downpipe and intake into the turbo upgrade, otherwise , I think its close to a waste completely.

I'd say most dyno's from the US going around are fairly accurate.

Fuel type is also a huge factor.

I think a far number for stock cars is 180-185whp.
 


JPGC

2000 Post Club
Messages
2,011
Likes
214
Location
Middleburg
#4
The fact is that you could dyno your car a one shop, then drive 20 miles to another shop the same day, temp, humidity, etc...and still get as much as 20-30 WHP difference. The best way is to get a baseline and then dyno your stages/ upgrades, on the same dyno every time. I've dynoed once for S&G's at a dyno day. From that point on, I have just datalogged and used v-dyno. As Sourskittle said, weather has an enormous impact on numbers. Even my v-dynos have differed from day to day as much as 20whp/ 20 WTQ, just due to the difference in temp, humidity and baro pressure.
Also understand the driver mod. A good driver with a stock FiST can beat a not so good driver in a stg3 FiST at the track all day long. A lot of people spend a ton of money on parts for performance, but never take the time to go to the track and practice....sometimes it's because they are scared to break the car with all of their expensive new parts, lol. Then they get embarrassed when they lose to something that they shouldn't when they finally do race it.
 


Hijinx

3000 Post Club
U.S. Air Force Veteran
Messages
3,290
Likes
1,669
Location
Auburn, AL, USA
#5
To add a note here, HP doesn't simply add together, i.e. this part is +10, and this part is +10 so you've gained +20. It would be more like +12-15.
 


iso100

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,500
Likes
135
#6
Manufacturers post peak gains at a specific RPM. Those gains are not across the rev range. You can't add up +11 peak HP at 3500 and then +7 at 6500 and consider it a net gain of 18 HP across the board. It doesn't work that way.
 


OP
S
Messages
287
Likes
62
Location
Clarksville
Thread Starter #8
Thanks for the replies guys. You put it into a little more perspective for me.
And don't worry Young L, I have plenty of stickers and more to come. I'll be chasing GTRs in no time.
 


RAAMaudio

5000 Post Club
Messages
5,268
Likes
925
Location
Carson City
#9
A bit different for boosted cars but the majority of stuff I have seen for NA setups just move power around, usually taking away what is needed for daily driving and adding to the top end but advertising a gain when if fact most net zero or even give up a bit. Then if you figure out the time spent at each point in the RPM band for your real use you end up with a slower car more often than a faster car and only a good drag racer can get most of the benefit out of it.

-----------

Boosted cars are a bit different as we all know, serious gains from many mods, some not so, some still can be worthless and go to far lose power where you need it most of the time. And many can cause reliability issues, others cause having to deal with special fuels, aux injection, etc...which is great for those willing to work with such things.

-------------

I have to agree about drag racing as I have incredible reaction times but am slow as just never launch well for some reason though I have only drag raced a few times as just not what I am all that interested in, I am sure I could get better.

For road race tracks, mountain runs, etc...give me a nice wide mid to upper RPM power band...autocross, street, nice wide lower to upper mid band.

The best of both worlds would be a nice wide power band from low to high RPM and great transient response, what it my goal for this car but on pump gas and not beating on the turbo hard to make the power during 20-30 minute all out track sessions.
 


re-rx7

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,639
Likes
215
Location
Ardmore
#10
Example. I made 186whp and 285lb ft on Cobb Planos dyno. A stock fist made 145 lol
 


Messages
153
Likes
20
Location
Chicago
#11
To add a note here, HP doesn't simply add together, i.e. this part is +10, and this part is +10 so you've gained +20. It would be more like +12-15.
This.

Manufacturers post peak gains at a specific RPM. Those gains are not across the rev range. You can't add up +11 peak HP at 3500 and then +7 at 6500 and consider it a net gain of 18 HP across the board. It doesn't work that way.
And this.

:lol:
 




Top