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Rev Matching to avoid surging or changing gears after a turn

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#1
**I have read through dozens of articles and this one was the most helpful (but still not sure about one thing). Also watched YouTube vids (not very helpful). I have done my due diligence and searched this forum as well.

Here's the scenario... you're cruising along a road at 45MPH (5th or 6th gear). You are intending to make a right turn onto a somewhat tight highway entrance ramp just a few hundred feet ahead.

There are two sequences I'm reading about, where the only difference is when the gear shift is actually made:
1) In current gear, slow down as you approach turn, RPMs relaxed, push clutch pedal down, shift into neutral (now coasting in neutral with clutch down and not in target gear yet), blip throttle, downshift to target gear, clutch pedal up while throttling to taste.
2) In current gear, slow down as you approach turn, RPMs relaxed, push clutch pedal down, downshift to target gear (now coasting with clutch down and already in target gear), blip throttle, clutch pedal up while throttling to taste.

And I assume (despite the technique) all of this is done adequately before turning your steering wheel.

So, which one is ideal? Either, none?

I'm not trying to race, just avoiding the surge/jump or feathering the clutch.
 


iso100

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#2
Always blip in neutral. This gets the synchronizers up to speed to match the output shaft.

If you've already shifted to the target gear, you're not helping the synchros. They were forced to bring the gears up to speed for you.
 


Hijinx

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#3
**I have read through dozens of articles and this one was the most helpful (but still not sure about one thing). Also watched YouTube vids (not very helpful). I have done my due diligence and searched this forum as well.

Here's the scenario... you're cruising along a road at 45MPH (5th or 6th gear). You are intending to make a right turn onto a somewhat tight highway entrance ramp just a few hundred feet ahead.

There are two sequences I'm reading about, where the only difference is when the gear shift is actually made:
1) In current gear, slow down as you approach turn, RPMs relaxed, push clutch pedal down, shift into neutral (now coasting in neutral with clutch down and not in target gear yet), blip throttle, downshift to target gear, clutch pedal up while throttling to taste.
2) In current gear, slow down as you approach turn, RPMs relaxed, push clutch pedal down, downshift to target gear (now coasting with clutch down and already in target gear), blip throttle, clutch pedal up while throttling to taste.

And I assume (despite the technique) all of this is done adequately before turning your steering wheel.

So, which one is ideal? Either, none?

I'm not trying to race, just avoiding the surge/jump or feathering the clutch.
I think you're getting yourself confused with everything you're reading. What should be happening is a mixture of both of these things. Sequence goes like this, and it's fairly quick:

As you're braking or even cruising-> clutch in, neutral, blip, gear. This happens with in a seconds time. FWIW, I don't approach turns in lower gears (4th, 5th, 6th). I always do my downshifting/rev-matching BEFORE I approach.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #4
No doubt on the confusion! And I was HORRIBLE on my Cobra, so I'm trying to do things better...clutch in, neutral, blip, gear, clutch out" as y'all have said twice now. I'm a tad slow and deliberate right now. I haven't even refueled the car yet, just hit 400 miles!!
 


Hijinx

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#5
To clarify, the goal is that you want to blip as you move out of gear into neutral with the revs matched as you go back into gear. But, practice step by step to get it down first.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #6
To clarify, the goal is that you want to blip as you move out of gear into neutral with the revs matched as you go back into gear. But, practice step by step to get it down first.
Yea that's clear. I'll probably clutch in and shift to neutral, then blip and downshift. Then once I have that, I think it will be more natural. I imagine I'll improve quickly.
 


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#7
Is it
Clutch > shift to neutral > blip > downshift > let go of clutch, or is it
Clutch > shift to neutral > let go of clutch > blip > clutch > downshift > let go of clutch?
 


CanadianGuy

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#8
Your are comparing single clutch to double clutch. I have always been under the impression double clutch is better but slower. Now i'm old so some new computer controlled engines may work better not double clutching.
 


Hijinx

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#9
Granny shifting when you should be double clutching... Unless your synchros are going bad, or you have a transmission without them, there's no reason to double clutch.
 


Kip2MyLou

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#10
Granny shifting when you should be double clutching... Unless your synchros are going bad, or you have a transmission without them, there's no reason to double clutch.
What exactly is granny shifting and double clutching? I've read different expressions of both.

And off topic but what do you guys do when approaching a stop sign or stop light? Shift down or coast to the stop on neutral?
 


KKaWing

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#11
Are you having trouble syncing the entire sequence (basically do you jerk/grind/miss/over/underrev)? A good crutch I've used and recommended is to forget about saving the synchros first until you build some muscle memory then modify the timing to match the technique you ultimately want to use.

Sequence as follows:

1. Clutch in
2. Shift to desired gear.
3. When at the gear you want, blip and clutch out.

Note: When shifting, best to go down through each gate to help you build muscle memory and put less stress on the synchros since you are not double clutching, yet. Example, you're putting along in 4th around town and about to make a right. You would go:

1. Clutch in
2. Go from 4th to 3rd, then 2nd.
3. When at the gear you want, blip and clutch out.

^ You should only depress the clutch pedal once through the entire sequence.

(yeah yeah, I said forget about the synchros)

That usually nets beginners the smoothest shift.
From there you can move to double clutching:

1. Clutch in, shift to neutral.
2. Clutch out, blip.
3. Clutch in, shift to desired gear and clutch out.

^ You should have depressed the clutch pedal twice in this sequence.

Edit for clarity.

Edit2: Here's a way to get familiar with double clutching without braking. You would do this while dropping a gear or two to accelerate. I usually go from 6th to 4th (Versa, what can I say) when I want to pass or merge on the highway. You could try this when the hwy. is clear:

1. From 6th, clutch in and shift to neutral.
2. In neutral, blip and shift to 4th.
3. Spool dat turbo and go! (don't get yourself a ticket though)
 


Hijinx

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#12
What exactly is granny shifting and double clutching? I've read different expressions of both.

And off topic but what do you guys do when approaching a stop sign or stop light? Shift down or coast to the stop on neutral?
I was making a Fast and Furious reference. Double clutch has been explained, but I don't think Granny shifting is a real thing. If it were I would assume that it's really slow.
 


Kip2MyLou

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#13
That's what I thought double clutching was and granny shifting doesn't sound like something most people do.
 


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#14
For someone that's trying to get a feel for the car, I'd go with option 1. Though I don't typically have the car in neutral with the clutch pressed down, seems redundant to me.

Granted I don't own a FiST yet (hopefully Thursday!), once you learn the car, option one turns into: Clutch in > rev match > select gear > release clutch in one smooth motion. Some times if I'm in 5th gear and the driver in front of me is moving slowly, I'll shift from 5th to 3rd for easy passing, rev matching is key here. It's really about learning the car and getting a feel for engine RPMs at different speeds in each gear.

I don't know if it's traditional heel-toeing (never bothered looking up the description), but I roll my ankle while braking so my big toe is braking and my pinky toe blips the throttle, same concept I suppose.
 


D1JL

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#15
OMG!!!
This a modern synchronized transmission.
Just go from one gear to another, up or down (of course use the clutch).
I down shift all the time when slowing and there is no need to blip the throttle unless you like to hear the sound of your exhaust.

I have been driving manual transmissions sense before there were syncros and double clutching was required.
I have never heard of the term Granny Shifting except for when shifting through the extremely low gears in a truck/tractor.





Dave
 


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#16
I've always done clutch in, blip while moving to my selected gear, then clutch out. It takes practice to get it fluid, and it's different for every car, but that's the basic idea. Unless you're going from 6th to 5th or 2nd to 1st (which you shouldn't be going fast enough for that shift to have to blip), the shifter passes through neutral anyway. It's just a matter of doing the blip while passing through neutral at the same time.

As for double clutching, it really isn't necessary with synchros. I always just make sure I don't skip more than one gear at a time so the difference in speed between the sychros isn't too great. If I'm in 6th and need to slow for a light/turn, I do 6th -> 4th -> 3rd then clutch in to neutral if I have to stop after I get down to about 2k rpms. Also, mind the 3-2 shift on the FiST. I've found it takes a larger blip than the other gears to keep it from lurching.
 


D1JL

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#17
Modern Ford transmissions work so well I even went from 5th to 1st at about 140 MPH once.
I don't recommend this.
The transmission slipped into gear perfectly however the clutch didn't like it at all.
I also started doing donuts through turn one at Willow Springs Raceway (big track).
At that speed you get a whole different view of the track and you are real happy you chose to put on your "Tare-Tab-Shorts".




Dave
 


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#18
OMG!!!
This a modern synchronized transmission.
Just go from one gear to another, up or down (of course use the clutch).
I down shift all the time when slowing and there is no need to blip the throttle unless you like to hear the sound of your exhaust.

I have been driving manual transmissions sense before there were syncros and double clutching was required.
I have never heard of the term Granny Shifting except for when shifting through the extremely low gears in a truck/tractor.





Dave
So bear with me Dave but if you don't blip you always jerk because the car has to up the revs itself?

Or are you talking about not using any engine braking and downshifting when you get down to a low rpm when braking?
 


D1JL

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#19
What's a little jerk.
I've been one most (all) my life.




Dave
 


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#20
It's been tough learning this for me. What I learned was to approach the downshift maintaining throttle position throughout the whole process...

Driving >clutch in>gear swap>clutch out >driving...All without changing the accelerator position.

Has always (45 yrs) worked well for me, but now I gotta unlearn that to do heel and toe.
 




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