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Need opinion from wheel alignment experts

stuntdoogie

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#1
Got a alignment this past friday and my rear toe looks way off. This is about my 3rd alignment with this car and noticed the rear being off for a while. Seems like both rear wheels are pointing to the left. Also after my last tire rotation my car started pulling left, so not sure if its because of the rear alignment.
It also looks like they didnt do a good job with the front because my car kinda wants to pull left on certain roads but never to the right.
Im on Koni STR.T struts and Eibach pro kit springs.
Took a pic of the printout.
 


RAAMaudio

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#2
The rear toe is not adjustable unless they put shims in which no real good ones are made I know of yet that fit this car properly.

Or, the rear axle is out of alignment, there is a bit of play in the mounts to the chassis.

Your results show the axle is likely out of alignment a bit and they did not correct it.
Toe and thrust angle show it to be off a fair amount.

Note: Thrust angle is the difference between where the front wheels and rear wheels point, if it is off the car will "crab walk" or other terms meaning it will drive at an angle down the road which increases drag using more fuel and wear on the tires as well as rear wheel bearings and the car will turn differently from right to left.

Rear camber shows they adjusted it, it is not adjustable and would not change that much if any from correcting the toe/thrust angle so it seems they do not know how to properly setup their system to do the alignment.

It is critically important to setup the system correctly by placing the sensors evenly on all 4 wheels, I have seen gross errors in that regard.

Front toe should be exact side to side if the steering wheel is centered and both tires aim the same exact direction, the toe is self centering by design but the thrust angle will through it off.

Also factory specs on most cars have a huge range of allowance that is far from optimal which you can see from the printout, you need to find a real alignment shop and have them do a performance alignment to exacting specs.

Not many will do so, most do not care or know how, why I have done my own alignments, street and race, for decades, I was taught by a pro that taught alignment as a profession.
 


D1JL

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#3
Rick is correct in all that is said.
If the car has never been in an accident then it looks like the rear swing arm (twist beam) is not mounted straight to the body.
This should be a warranty issue.



Dave
 


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#4
Is there any way to do a precise DIY Alignment that doesn't involve a lift and expensive laser equipment?
 


D1JL

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#5
Is there any way to do a precise DIY Alignment that doesn't involve a lift and expensive laser equipment?

You can buy your own camber/caster gauge and lasers are not that expensive anymore and, no, you don't need a lift just a jack.
With these tools you can do well and it is great for race car prep.
Precise however is the question, this does depend on your tools and skills.



Dave
 


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stuntdoogie

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Thread Starter #6
The rear toe is not adjustable unless they put shims in which no real good ones are made I know of yet that fit this car properly.

Or, the rear axle is out of alignment, there is a bit of play in the mounts to the chassis.

Your results show the axle is likely out of alignment a bit and they did not correct it.
Toe and thrust angle show it to be off a fair amount.

Note: Thrust angle is the difference between where the front wheels and rear wheels point, if it is off the car will "crab walk" or other terms meaning it will drive at an angle down the road which increases drag using more fuel and wear on the tires as well as rear wheel bearings and the car will turn differently from right to left.

Rear camber shows they adjusted it, it is not adjustable and would not change that much if any from correcting the toe/thrust angle so it seems they do not know how to properly setup their system to do the alignment.

It is critically important to setup the system correctly by placing the sensors evenly on all 4 wheels, I have seen gross errors in that regard.

Front toe should be exact side to side if the steering wheel is centered and both tires aim the same exact direction, the toe is self centering by design but the thrust angle will through it off.

Also factory specs on most cars have a huge range of allowance that is far from optimal which you can see from the printout, you need to find a real alignment shop and have them do a performance alignment to exacting specs.

Not many will do so, most do not care or know how, why I have done my own alignments, street and race, for decades, I was taught by a pro that taught alignment as a profession.
Thank you for you knowledge and reply!
 


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stuntdoogie

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Thread Starter #7
Rick is correct in all that is said.
If the car has never been in an accident then it looks like the rear swing arm (twist beam) is not mounted straight to the body.
This should be a warranty issue.



Dave
I was afraid someone would say that damn. I never had an accident with this car. It had a clean title, bought it with 200mi on it. Im gonna have Ford take a look at it hopfully they dont give me problems about aftermarket suspension.
 


D1JL

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#8
In this case the suspension wouldn't make any difference.
However that doesn't mean they won't give you a hard time.
I would put the stock suspension back on.

If I am correct it can be fixed but requires a frame shop.


Dave
 


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stuntdoogie

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Thread Starter #9
In this case the suspension wouldn't make any difference.
However that doesn't mean they won't give you a hard time.
I would put the stock suspension back on.

If I am correct it can be fixed but requires a frame shop.


Dave
Ford wouldnt be able to fix inhouse?
 


D1JL

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#10
Ford wouldnt be able to fix inhouse?
If they determined it to be a warranty issue, they would refer it to their body shop.
They in turn send it to a specialty shop.

I might suggest that you take it to a frame/alignment shop and have it checked before you take it to Ford.
Show them the paperwork from the previous shop ask their advise.
Then if need be change the suspension and take the complaint to your dealer.


Dave
 


RAAMaudio

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#11
There is a little play in the mounting holes for the rear axle or the holes on one side of the car could be opened up a bit in the right directly, any high end mod shop that does alignment could fix this and likely some of the better regular alignment shops if not to far off.

There is a chance the rear axle was not built to spec of course, then it would have to be replaced.

-----------------------

DIY Alignment, basic primer using simplest tools, there are other methods as well but this works very effectively with little cost involved and I still get better results than any regular alignment shop job I have seen.

1)Level the car.
Side to side really needs to be done, front to rear not as important so if not to far off no worries.
If on an unknown surface I use a straight edge as long as the width of the outside to outside of the front tires and a good level then add shims big enough for the side needing raised tire to roll up onto.
Side to side can be corrected with shims under the tires, you must roll the car back and forth to settle out any preload if it has been jacked up, wheels turned, etc. I have some slippery material I place under them, makes it much easier.

2)Center steering.
Rolling back and forth and eyeballing center works pretty well, do not go by the steering wheel unless it sits perfectly straight driving down a level surface, most roads are crowned and can be misleading. After adjusting camber and toe you might have to reset the center but deal with it later.

3)Measure and set toe.
Many ways to do this, for years I taped a measuring tape to the tire first front side of one tire and measured across the car to the other side, pick the same spot on the tread and pay close attention to the reading. Move the tape to the rear side of the tire and measure across again, note the difference. Make sure the tape used as far up towards the chassis as possible and the same height is used on the back as the front of the tires.

This step I do twice as will be shown and if can be skipped but I like to do it here and later as well and if the steering wheel is very far off from center I might center it up at the same time.

Loosen the lock nuts on the tie rods, make sure to not move anything else.
Ensure which rotational direction brings the front or rear of the tire in or out respective of where the rods are mounted, leading or trailing side of the tires.
If a minor adjustment is needed turn the tie rod 2-3 segments, hex sided, 2 segments is 1/3 of a turn, do both sides of the car the same exact amount, snug the tie rod lock nuts, do not need to be tight.
Roll car back and forth and check the results, redo as needed but if very close you can call it good.
(Centering the steering wheel is done by using different turn counts on each side of the car)

3 Alternate) Set toe with Longacre toe plates and two small tape measures, a great time saving and accurate way, highly recommended.

4)Set camber with a level and more accurately include a protractor.
This will get you even side to side which is very important and if you have limited range get you as far as you can go within that range. I have found I had to notch a strut hole just to get them even as seen cars so far off even new they could not be set right.
Ensure tires are inflated to the same pressure, place level on the bottom sidewall and ground, move top in and out and measure gap between level and top of wheel rim, compare to the other side of the car. It is better to use just the rim if possible, I will mic and tape nuts, etc, the same exact thickness, to the level so it only touches the upper and lower part of the rim.
Adjust to both sides read the same.

If you want to know the numbers it can be done with a camber gauge or a protractor, I use a pretty costly digital camber/castor gauge and check castor as well but you cannot adjust castor on most cars without special parts and usually not a big deal, it won't change much from moderate camber changes if any at all.

5) Set toe again as in step 3

6) Check Thrust Angle (front to rear axle alignment)
This one is a bit more involved and I have promised some time with my wife, for now, look up using a string tool, I just use jack stands and some yellow line, fishing line works great as well. I have done full race alignments on very sophisticated race car suspensions and verified it to be very exacting.

I have done dozens if not hundreds of alignments since the early 70's on cars from 510 Datsuns to full out Vette road race cars, trucks, etc....often times wishing I had a 4 post lift and alignment rack for it but only had a two post lift later in life and they will not work for it.

NOTE: I will finish the TA adjustment section probably tomorrow as well as edit the rest for any corrections. Also there are more ways to do these things so post them up if you have them, please:)
 


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stuntdoogie

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Thread Starter #13
So I went to Ford and got a wheel alignment. Apparently nothing is wrong with my suspension and the previous place that did my alignment there machine is probably out of calibration. These were the before and after print out. I told the tech guy yo give me more toe in by the way but I still feel that the car easily lets me corner to the left than the right. I can feel the resistance turning right. So i am not 100% satisfied. The worst part of it is they charged me $120 for a front toe alignment WTF?

Before


After
 


RAAMaudio

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#14
Still not optimal from a race alignment perspective but withing factory specs, which are never really that great as too much tolerance.

Sorry you spent so much on it to only get a minor tweak but the thrust angle is improved quite a bit.

Have you verified the tire pressures are exact on each side of the car and done your steering tests on the flattest parking lot you can find?

Most if not all roads have a crown in them and often on some corners if not just slopped in properly but turning left easier than right seems backwards from the road shape issues until I looked again, the right rear towed out more than the left may have something to do with it, I need to think about cars with rear wheels steering built in a bit more.
 




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