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The merits of stopping at a stage 2+ setup

jeff

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Evans
#1
So...........

Obviously these ideas are not for all....but being new to the Fiesta ST, just 4 months in now, and to this forum, I've noticed after hours of reading these forums that from 2014-2015 all the excitement was about bolt-ons while in the last year or so most of the excitement is about cyborg/big turbo upgrades. Not all, but most.

Not saying I'll never go there, and not saying anything against those who do....but after months of research and planning I've concluded that for me at this point, stage 2 + is the place to be. So I thought I'd share why.

By "stage 2 +" I mean that I have the essential "stage 2" hardware - that is, a better FMIC and a tune to match - plus a few other things - a true CAI that doesn't heat soak, a BIG MOUTH intake, and a few braces to help keep the new power to the ground.

To me, this is the ultimate cost-effective price point for our cars. For the FMIC and Accessport for tuning you'll spend around $800. Throw in $300 more for lower front and rear brace/bar and RMM and you have great power and the supporting mods to keep the car gripping the road. For $500 more you get a few intake mods that help with cooling even more. Then for another $300 you get a custom tune and call it a day. At this point you've invested somewhere between $1000-$1800 and probably added around 25 HP and 50 TQ, a conservative estimate.

Beyond this, big money is required to make the car faster and it seems to me that that is where you are spending much more for your HP/TQ. This is why I chose not to go DP/"stage 3"...at that point you drop another $1000ish for a down pipe and exhaust and get more power that the wheels can't handle....then you spend $500 more on tires to help handle the power and $300 more on a tune to limit the power that the turboback gives so you can go WOT without burning the tires and dealing with wheel hop/traction issues.

Beyond this, even bigger money is required to upgrade the turbo, and more for install. While most of us are probably comfortable installing mounts/bars/intake/intercooler, the mods beyond that are more typically installed for a price. So you add several thousand more, I estimate $3000-$5000 parts and labor and tune depending on your setup. That includes the price of "stage 3" above. For that you lose some of the low end power that makes this car fun, but gain awesome mid/high end power, better track times, etc. And of course if your goal is a drag strip/track car, big turbo is without question the right path for you. But it will cost.

In conclusion - to go beyond the "stage 2" setup, which can be had for $1000, you're spending an additional $3000 or much more for the next level of power. Depending on what parts you buy and whether or not you install yourself or have install done for a price:

Stage 2 = $1000-$2000
Stage 3 = $2000-$3000
Big turbo = $4000-$7000

Money aside, the personality of the car, in my opinion, is perfect at stage 2. You get usable power (with bracing) early on, and while mid- and high- range power isn't as beastly as a big turbo'd car, it is still there much more than stock, and relatively decent. My car as it sits right now, short of a custom tune, feels about how my STi did at stock levels, though I have more power early. The car is plenty quick.

As I've contemplated my mod path over the last few months, and arrived at this milestone recently ("stage 2 +"), these are the thoughts going through my head. Very happy with this car. Granted I have not driven a big turbo'd FiST so I am speaking somewhat out of ignorance....but my Subaru was modded to 297HP/337TQ AWHP and i can truly say that my Fiesta as it sits now is a much more satisfying ride, the perfect setup for street driving.
 


twolf

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Canton
#2
First of all, an intake is essentially a useless noisemaker. Green filter at most and you're done until you go big turbo... this seems to be the consensus, someone correct me if I'm wrong... but if I'm right, that $400 you spent on the CPE intake could have been much better spent.

IMO, and this is just my 2 cents... the best "bang for the buck" is one of these 2...

1. Buy an Accessport and an e30 e-tune. You'll be making pretty much the same power as a "Stage 3" 93 octane car on OTS at least. $500
2. Buy the MTC or 2j intercooler, an Accessport, e30 e-tune, and maybe green filter. $900

But if I had to do it all again I would just buy DHM's Quickspool kit and go from bone stock to big turbo over night.
 


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Hoboken
#3
My goal is stage 2 and anything over that is just overkill for the driving I do. I looked at my average MPH the other day and it said 43 which shows how I use the car. I like the small turbo because it spools up fast so I can weave in and out of traffic and never need a big turbo for higher speeds. I already have the AP, sticky tires, lighter wheels, a RMM, and the drop in filter, so I guess I only really need the FMIC and bracing and then I'll be done. I don't really want to deal with ethanol around here since it's hard to find and NJ people aren't allowed to pump their own gas (dumb, I know). I understand the want for stage 3 or a big turbo, but for me it doesn't make sense. I'd rather spend the money on a drivers school to make me faster in every car.
 


frankiefiesta

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forked river
#4
My goal is stage 2 and anything over that is just overkill for the driving I do. I looked at my average MPH the other day and it said 43 which shows how I use the car. I like the small turbo because it spools up fast so I can weave in and out of traffic and never need a big turbo for higher speeds. I already have the AP, sticky tires, lighter wheels, a RMM, and the drop in filter, so I guess I only really need the FMIC and bracing and then I'll be done. I don't really want to deal with ethanol around here since it's hard to find and NJ people aren't allowed to pump their own gas (dumb, I know). I understand the want for stage 3 or a big turbo, but for me it doesn't make sense. I'd rather spend the money on a drivers school to make me faster in every car.
It sucks not being able to get ethanol in our state. There are a few places I know of. One in the orange area, one in the middle of nowhere south jersey. None are close enough for me to justify doing the e30 tune.
 


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Lewisville
#5
These goals are in-line with what I have planned for the car.
The car is great in the twisties, and I haven't found myself wanting too much more power yet (this car is plenty quick for me for now) but more "enjoyment" stuff -- probably just some noisemakers (catback/intake) and an RMM. Maybe an Oil Cooler if I start tracking the car.

Car has a ton of torque steer... and I'd like to stay away from that by adding a bunch of power lol.
 


WeTheNorth

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#7
Idk if not putting a DP is the answer or vice versa, Alex said the dp of course will give you power. You have to remember this is a small engine with a very small turbo, so expecting high numbers from one mod is not rational nor realistic. I think stage 3 supporting mods with a proper tune will be the best way to conceive the max power available (higher boost-higher timing) but also help control higher risk of knock/ pre-ignition. Just like [MENTION=2876]Joker328[/MENTION] has said in a diff thread, Would also love an e-tune but I live about an hour away from the only station around me, very unconvenienent.
 


Bluedrank

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Winter Park
#8
I think that's where I'll eventually add up as well. It's hard to justify spending $7000+ on a car at this price point. $2000-$3000 I'm a bit more comfortable justifying in my head.

It's kind of similar in the PC world. Why build a core i5, overclock it, watercool it, etc.? You'd be better off spending that extra cash on a more capable platform in the i7. Even with a stock heatsink it's going to be faster and more moddable later on.
 


JasonHaven

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Washington
#9
This is basically where I'm at...

I have filter + CP-E FMIC + Adam tune...

If I want more power gains, I'm looking at an additional handful of thousands of dollars. To compare with another poster, most of my driving is commuting in the city, so my average mph is like 24mph. Absolutely ridiculous. I want to add more go-fast parts, but I just have a hard time justifying it.
 


Dib

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Tucson, AZ
#10
maybe it's just my car, but my stock tires handle my ots 91oct stg 3 very well, they only break sometimes at the top of first and a small chirp to second.
 


Messages
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Broward county Fl
#13
I agree with your philosophy here. Stage 2+ is enough for me. I Need that FMIC before summer gets here along with a tune.
I will eventually upgrade the turbo when this one dies but I am in no hurry.
 


dyn085

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#14
All you need is an aggressive tune to max out the OEM turbo, if you want longevity then you add the FMIC and a DP or CBE. I've seen lots of interesting tuning decisions lately and everyone has their own opinion of what the best 'cheap' setup is...
 


meFiSTo

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#15
...everyone has their own opinion of what the best 'cheap' setup is...
Isn't that the truth. I've gone the MR230 route with some differences in terms of the specific CBE and certain intake piping decisions. That's not been the least expensive route, but I think it's comparatively safe. It runs well on our pump gas and at the track I'll bump the octane with Torco to (hopefully) deter potential detonation. Add to that suspension and engine cooling adjustments, and this has become a not-so-cheap exercise in personalization.

Here's the thing: Even applying moderation to the HP/TQ enhancements and working to help reduce heat-related damage due to track day abuse, there is a risk that the engine will crater. Look at what [MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION] is documenting in his epically unfortunate thread.

Now, if you strictly daily drive this car without testing its limits, then the MP215 or Cobb equivalent is all you need to liven up the little critter. That's PLENTY of daily-driver scoot for this car to be entertaining. Getting on the freeway is a hoot and there's plenty of TQ for corner exit in the twisties..plus: warranty is completely preserved (in the case of the MP215 setup).

That's just 2 cents from the peanut gallery. YMMV.
 


Hijinx

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#16
Here's my take on this now...Do what thou wilt.

In the past I've made suggestions and so on and so forth. But there are too many hard-heads, too many cheap-skates, and too many ignorance inspired ideologies for me to waste my time on "which exhaust is best."

Always remember: cheap, fast, reliable. You can only pick two.
 


WeTheNorth

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#17
Here's my take on this now...Do what thou wilt.

In the past I've made suggestions and so on and so forth. But there are too many hard-heads, too many cheap-skates, and too many ignorance inspired ideologies for me to waste my time on "which exhaust is best."

Always remember: cheap, fast, reliable. You can only pick two.
What would u consider cheap? And what's fast/reliable. Would love to hear your opinions as I may have missed your post(s)
 


WeTheNorth

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#19
You tell me what you think, and I'll let you know whether we have thoughts in common.
I bought what I could afford and will upload the maps as I bolt on my part and hopefully that'll do the job. That's all one can do, right?
 


Messages
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Broward county Fl
#20
dont get so worked up over it. of course were cheap-skates we bought a fiesta.
All you can do is offer advice, wether we do it or not shouldn't bother you.
 




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