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FiST Auxillary Fueling Information and Discussion Thread

Magnetic

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#81
Ok so I did some digging because I thought somewhere we could run straight e85 and I found it!

I'll be running this setup with my Whoosh Hybrid in a couple months if Adam can confirm I can get 350HP with it and NO MIXING!!

This is from Adam @ Tune+

๐—ฅ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜‚๐—น๐˜๐˜€ ๐—ณ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐—ซ๐——๐—œ ๐—ฃ๐˜‚๐—บ๐—ฝ ๐—ฎ๐—ป๐—ฑ ๐—•๐—ผ๐˜€๐—ฐ๐—ต ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฌ% ๐—ถ๐—ป๐—ท๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐˜๐—ผ๐—ฟ๐˜€ ๐—ผ๐—ป ๐—ฎ ๐—ง๐˜‚๐—ฟ๐—ฏ๐—ผ ๐—ง๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ป๐—ถ๐—ฐ๐˜€ ๐—ฆ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ "๐—›๐˜†๐—ฏ๐—ฟ๐—ถ๐—ฑ".

๐“๐‡๐„ ๐…๐”๐„๐‹ ๐’๐˜๐’๐“๐„๐Œ:
For clarity this is all being fueled by Direct Injection. There is ๐—ก๐—ข ๐—”๐—จ๐—ซ ๐—™๐—จ๐—˜๐—Ÿ on this vehicle. This is 100% being controlled through the factory fuel system.
The car met commanded fuel pressure without problem through entire testing last night. I have attached a picture below (second picture) showing the commanded pressure (blue line) and actual pressure (green line). We are raising the high pressure demand with RPM as the pump flows MORE fuel with MORE RPM. Commanding more pressure than you need at lower RPM can just cause stress on the on the injectors. You only need to use as much pressure as needed to stay on your AFR target. You can see in the third picture below AFR was on target (12.0:1 AFR) the entire pull within 2%.
So we definitely have plenty of pump, and the injectors seem to be handling the combo just fine. I do believe with a little more ethanol we would reach the max of the injectors at 400whp on E60ish. Can't really say that for sure without actually doing the testing on it but we are going to wait for our next turbo to get here before we push this fuel system a little further. The goal will be to make 370-380whp on straight E85 out of the pump just to see if the fuel system can handle it. Which means 90% of the customers out there will be able to run E85 straight out of the pump without having to mix on their Sub 400whp car.
Now, I see people asking "Why wouldn't I just run Aux Fuel / Port Injection. It's cheaper, and it cleans the valves". So here are a few points on why we are looking to take Direct Injection upgrades as far as possible on the platforms we support.
- This is a simple bolt on affair, no need to tap wires into your stock engine harness, and no fuel lines or hardware to install. You simply remove the stock components and install the new upgraded parts. I was able to install both the injectors and the pump in less than an hour.
- There aren't two systems that need to be tuned. When you add AUX Fuel/Port Injection you are trying to make two ECU's work together that don't talk to each other. They are completely separated.
- No need to flash the injector controller or disconnect/turn off when switching fuels. With a full DI system that can support your two different fuels you simply fill up with whatever fuel you like and map switch.
- Aux fueling (for now) is controlled by a system made in 1998 (Split Second). This is batch fire, and not a sequential system. So it does not spray when the valves are open they all just fire at the same time regardless if the valve is open or not. This causes "puddling" and changes the state of the fuel from an atomized state and enters your cylinder as a "shot" of fuel versus efficiently combining in the cylinder with the fuel from the DI side.
- We, as well as most tuners charge more for aux fuel tuning. If you do the pump/injector upgrade it is covered in our standard tuning rates, no additional cost.
- Carbon build up is less of a factor when you are running Ethanol. The only reason you would need to do a fuel system upgrade like this would be to run more ethanol. With ethanol there is virtually no carbon deposits to bake onto the back of the valves.
- This is getting us a step closer to being able to provide a full flex fuel capable system through the stock ECU. Meaning you will be able to fill up with any fuel between E10 and E85 and the ECU will compensate automatically without switching tunes. No ETA on this obviously as there is another party involved that needs to provide the ability but we will get there.
Do I still recommend Port Injection / Aux Fuel? Absolutely. I can't say that it doesn't work because we have proven that it does work all the way up to 700whp. However I recommend that the DI system be upgraded ALONG WITH aux fuel when the fuel demand for just the DI system can't be met. Allowing your engine to get the majority of it's fuel from the DI system allows you to rely on the port injection less, which means you fuel the engine "MO BETTA" and it's less stress on the fuel system overall.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#82
Oh there is alot more than that...it isn't just plug and play either. NOTHING is PNP.....EVER. There is always something that needs to be tweaked. There are PNP harnesses for the Aux fuel system....a member makes them so no wire piercing is required. Alot of fuel system stuff can be had off the forum slightly used or NIB. You can save money that way. From what I've seen and observed ....you will not get that HP rating with a hybrid....way...way to much heat will be generated from it. I'd say low 300s is appropriate for a hybrid without making it into lawn art. But you can do as you wish.But I will say this....research.....research....research. talk to other Forum members about their setups. They will give you more insight than the tuner ever will from their experience with Their Tuner or multiple tuners they have gone through and ups and downs with all they have encountered. ....or Not and just throw the dice.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
 


dhminer

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#83
Oh there is alot more than that...it isn't just plug and play either. NOTHING is PNP.....EVER. There is always something that needs to be tweaked. There are PNP harnesses for the Aux fuel system....a member makes them so no wire piercing is required. Alot of fuel system stuff can be had off the forum slightly used or NIB. You can save money that way. From what I've seen and observed ....you will not get that HP rating with a hybrid....way...way to much heat will be generated from it. I'd say low 300s is appropriate for a hybrid without making it into lawn art. But you can do as you wish.But I will say this....research.....research....research. talk to other Forum members about their setups. They will give you more insight than the tuner ever will from their experience with Their Tuner or multiple tuners they have gone through and ups and downs with all they have encountered. ....or Not and just throw the dice.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Dice roll is a fun way to go
 


Magnetic

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#84
Thanks for the info. I just got on here so I havent really met anyone with the setup above. Would be great to get others takes in this setup.

Please chime in if anyone has experience with this setup.

TIA!
 


anticon

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#86
Thanks for the info. I just got on here so I havent really met anyone with the setup above. Would be great to get others takes in this setup.

Please chime in if anyone has experience with this setup.

TIA!
I've been wondering the same thing. I haven't been able to find much info on a hybrid and single port aux setup though.
 


Magnetic

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#88
I've been wondering the same thing. I haven't been able to find much info on a hybrid and single port aux setup though.
I think thats good through 325hp. At least that's what I heard from a guy that had one. Not sure if it was dynoed. He had the whoosh hybrid that's on my car right now with a single port aux.
 


Magnetic

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#90
Yes the larger injectors along with a upgraded hpfp is the ideal combo so far. I've actually sold my Peron 4-port aux fuel kit just to get this kit. From what I understand it is simpler and more accurate to use the FiST ECU then the piggyback system split second controller. Does 4 port aux injection work sufficiently? Yes! Is it more significantly difficult to install and tune? Also yes!
Did you get the injectors setup yet?
 


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#93
Last edited:

Magnetic

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#94
All the gains. ๐Ÿ’ช lol honestly my AP was stolen a few weeks back so I'm still on revision 1.3c until it's done.

Edit: Actually i can confidently say that throttle response was a significant improvement from OEM. Keep in mind I also did the HpFp at the same time.
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/bosch-uprated-injectors.24345/page-4
Awesome! I'm planning on doing both as well so that's good to know! I'll read that thread now. Thanks a bunch!!!
 


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#95
sooo, i have the whoosh spa showing up this week, anyone able to point me in the right direction for a write-up on what to do? i have a basic understanding but im wondering if there is a write-up to follow so i dont completely screw the pooch.

also trying to figure out wether i should just get a 92 tune, or get a E tune as well. and if so, what content do people seem to like to run?
 


TyphoonFiST

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#96
sooo, i have the whoosh spa showing up this week, anyone able to point me in the right direction for a write-up on what to do? i have a basic understanding but im wondering if there is a write-up to follow so i dont completely screw the pooch.

also trying to figure out weather i should just get a 92 tune, or get a E tune as well. and if so, what content do people seem to like to run?
Don't know if you still need this.....Its for SPAF

Hey Nate, (stratifiedauto.com)
 


dhminer

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#98
I used it, and it was helpful for sure. I seem to be having an issue getting fuel pressure. I depressurized the system when I began, and now when im attempting to start my car, the AP shows 41 FRP actual lol...

any thoughts???
Stupid question but I do stupid stuff all the time.. Did you put the fuse back in? lol
 


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#99
Stupid question but I do stupid stuff all the time.. Did you put the fuse back in? lol
yes sir haha. I pulled a different relay by accident, R13, and ran the car for a bit thinking it was gonna die. then i pulled the right fuse, and about 10 seconds later it died. for good
 


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