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What mods can you do but still stay in stock class?

M-Sport fan

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#21
^^^Thanks!

IF I could find some great, linear rate strut fit springs for this car (and not weight jacked rear stock diameter, linear rate springs), I would just use them on those Konis and forget about all of the coil over stuff, maybe even including any Ground Control conversion on the Konis that I would usually do if it were available. [;)]
 


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#22
So I've been trying to find the answer to this, but no luck. So far my mods are just stage 1; tune, filter, RMM. But at some point I want to get a new IC and CBE. If I do that will I be able to stay in the stock class?
Your tune and RMM throw you into STX automatically. IIRC, an aftermarket is a no-no in ST classes. I think it's piping up to the turbo that can be changed.

Are you just going out there to have fun or actually be competitive in HS (H Street)?

If just for fun, mod the car the way you want and run in the class you fall into.

If you want to be competitive, mod to the rules and let your driving speak for itself. HS is very fun in the Fiesta. Typically it's the majority of cars in HS in the Detroit and Northwest Ohio region where I run. This year, a completely stock FiST w/16" OZ's and RE71R's has won back to back Pro Solo events so basically out of the box, the Fiesta is fantastic.

Do the following and you'll probably be up there in the HS standings:

Startling Line or EVO driving school
Bridgestone RE71R's in 205/50-16 w/a lightweight 16x7" wheel. You can go to a max of +40.5 mm on the offset. 205/50-16 will give you a bit more MPH in 2nd gear over the Tire Rack recommended 205/45-16.
Koni adjustable dampers from the base Fiesta. I heard the rears are PITA to adjust since you have to unbolt the lower mount and turn the shock. I'm lazy so I might skip that mod.
Base Fiesta 22 mm front swaybar.
Cat back exhaust. FSWerks gave a buddy a dyno proven extra 5 hp over stock. Also it's lighter.
Panel filter.

For autocross your mods are already too much for a stock class. (HS in SCCA) The only mods allowed in a stock class are tires. NOW.... you didn't hear this from me but they won't check the tune, RMM or drop in filter. I would leave the tune on the car but take the tuner out so it appears stock.
Dick move advice right here...don't take this advice if you want your fellow autocrossers pissed off at you.

Yes, the koni sport yellows. You can find the rears on Tire Rack. It's the base Fiesta ones, but they fit the ST. You have to zip tire the ABS sensor module. Most people just do the rears anyways since that is where the car needs the help on dampers. Part number is 8040-1419SPORT. There's stuff if you google around and I think [MENTION=1229]Phreak[/MENTION] hasd a guide on install on this forum somewhere.
Are you running the Koni's in the rear? I'm wondering about how to adjust on the fly. I guess I'd have to do more TnT's if I went with shocks.

oh...if y'all are on FB, we have an ST dedicated autocross group. Search "ST Autocross Gang" Lots of good information on there and some national champions that chime in from time to time.
 


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#23
I've only done one autox, but they didn't inspect the car for mods at all, but then again it was my first and I was in the novice class so maybe they aren't as strict.

However, there were two other FiSTs there that day that raced in HS, and I know for a fact one had a FMIC (really easy to see the Cobb logo on it), and the other was running coilovers, and for whatever reason raised the ride height again making it obvious. The driver of the FiST with the FMIC was also the person who did our novice course walk through, so maybe SCCA doesn't give a fuck?

Just my observations. I'll be doing my second event on the 28th, so I'll see what class both drivers decide to be in at this event, too.
 


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#24
You can do a cat back exhaust, just don't do the down pipe. The biggest advantage that you can do for this car is getting a 16 inch sparco wheel with Bridgestone r-71 tires. This will save a ton in rotational weight, it's a smaller diameter tire which makes a big impact on acceleration and they corner vary hard. It will cost you about 1200 bucks, but this is going to give way more advantage on the track than a intercooler. But you are going to have to get rid of the tune and motor mount.
 


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#25
Your tune and RMM throw you into STX automatically. IIRC, an aftermarket is a no-no in ST classes. I think it's piping up to the turbo that can be changed.
STX doesn't allow you to touch boost. It's all motor tunes or stock. No compromise. He's in CSP as a result. This ruling is what makes the STX GT86 so damn perfect for the class to the point of domination.

Are you just going out there to have fun or actually be competitive in HS (H Street)?

If just for fun, mod the car the way you want and run in the class you fall into.
This is good advice. It's where I started. You learn a lot about the car right away from doing this, riding with other people, and having them ride with you to give you pointers.

If you want to be competitive, mod to the rules and let your driving speak for itself. HS is very fun in the Fiesta. Typically it's the majority of cars in HS in the Detroit and Northwest Ohio region where I run. This year, a completely stock FiST w/16" OZ's and RE71R's has won back to back Pro Solo events so basically out of the box, the Fiesta is fantastic.
I have this setup, but I wasn't that person. :p

Are you running the Koni's in the rear? I'm wondering about how to adjust on the fly. I guess I'd have to do more TnT's if I went with shocks.
I'm running stock right now. [MENTION=1229]Phreak[/MENTION] has time and says they're nice. I'm still trying to get a feel for the RE71s as I picked them up halfway through the season after I learned that a tuned FiST was very hard to be get competitive times in, much less beat drivers running totally stock.

oh...if y'all are on FB, we have an ST dedicated autocross group. Search "ST Autocross Gang" Lots of good information on there and some national champions that chime in from time to time.
I'm on it, but there isn't a lot of Fiesta specific advice. It's mostly Focus drivers. :p
 


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#26
I've only done one autox, but they didn't inspect the car for mods at all, but then again it was my first and I was in the novice class so maybe they aren't as strict.

However, there were two other FiSTs there that day that raced in HS, and I know for a fact one had a FMIC (really easy to see the Cobb logo on it), and the other was running coilovers, and for whatever reason raised the ride height again making it obvious. The driver of the FiST with the FMIC was also the person who did our novice course walk through, so maybe SCCA doesn't give a fuck?

Just my observations. I'll be doing my second event on the 28th, so I'll see what class both drivers decide to be in at this event, too.
I would report it to the officials. This is an obvious violation. Cheating is frowned upon and will get their entire season results wiped. They will then be re-classed or be asked to leave depending on how the event coordinators are feeling that day. The SCCA does care and that's why the wrote the rules. At nationals those two would be laughed at.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #27
You can do a cat back exhaust, just don't do the down pipe. The biggest advantage that you can do for this car is getting a 16 inch sparco wheel with Bridgestone r-71 tires. This will save a ton in rotational weight, it's a smaller diameter tire which makes a big impact on acceleration and they corner vary hard. It will cost you about 1200 bucks, but this is going to give way more advantage on the track than a intercooler. But you are going to have to get rid of the tune and motor mount.
I will get wheels at some point, but being in SoCal and commuting on the 405 every day, I've already heat soaked in traffic so an FMIC is kinda necessary for me. [MENTION=4971]mykrrrr[/MENTION] made a good point though, AutoX would just be for fun. Obviously I want to be competitive but the mods I'm gonna do are for me, and specifically me in the canyons so if I get shit on in a higher class- oh well as long as I have fun I'll be OK with it....sorta....Probably not OK with loosing- but I mean I am the greatest driver ever of all time so maybe ill be ok[SUP]/s[/SUP]
 


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#28
I've only done one autox, but they didn't inspect the car for mods at all, but then again it was my first and I was in the novice class so maybe they aren't as strict.

However, there were two other FiSTs there that day that raced in HS, and I know for a fact one had a FMIC (really easy to see the Cobb logo on it), and the other was running coilovers, and for whatever reason raised the ride height again making it obvious. The driver of the FiST with the FMIC was also the person who did our novice course walk through, so maybe SCCA doesn't give a fuck?

Just my observations. I'll be doing my second event on the 28th, so I'll see what class both drivers decide to be in at this event, too.
I've run Tech for the Detroit region in the past and we're there to inspect the car for safety not for mods. If we catch items that are obviously wrong (ex: gutted & slammed Integra claiming street class) then we'll tell them to re-class themselves but it's on the driver to figure out what class their car falls into.

As for the cheaters, I'd talk to them directly and tell them to re-class themselves before the event (if you notice it) or protest them after they run.

When i was running TSM w/my old swapped Impreza wagon, I had to borrow a buddy's AS STi on street tires. One guy w/a super modded EVO was trying to protest my win because he couldn't believe a stock car could beat his car. hahaha...

STX doesn't allow you to touch boost. It's all motor tunes or stock. No compromise. He's in CSP as a result. This ruling is what makes the STX GT86 so damn perfect for the class to the point of domination.

This is good advice. It's where I started. You learn a lot about the car right away from doing this, riding with other people, and having them ride with you to give you pointers.

I have this setup, but I wasn't that person. :p

I'm running stock right now. [MENTION=1229]Phreak[/MENTION] has time and says they're nice. I'm still trying to get a feel for the RE71s as I picked them up halfway through the season after I learned that a tuned FiST was very hard to be get competitive times in, much less beat drivers running totally stock.

I'm on it, but there isn't a lot of Fiesta specific advice. It's mostly Focus drivers. :p
Forgot to mention the no boost level changes in STX. Good catch.

Yeah, getting people to ride along and provide pointers is a good way to get some insight. Walking the course with fast guys is a good way as well. Don't just walk the course and BS w/your buddies. You'll miss 1/2 the stuff. Look ahead to the next corner.

My wife is a rookie this year and next year I think we're both going to attend a Starting Line school. Can't hurt any. :)

Yes, the STaG has a lot of FoST drivers but there's great info on there. No BS about who's got the lowest set up or how dope your stretched 185's on 10" wide wheels look.
 


Waterfan

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#29
Forgot to mention the no boost level changes in STX. Good catch.
How about a custom tune that just removes the boost restriction in 1st gear (probably considered a "boost level change") OR just optimizes timing/fuel mapping for 91 or 93 pump fuel?
 


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#30
How about a custom tune that just removes the boost restriction in 1st gear (probably considered a "boost level change") OR just optimizes timing/fuel mapping for 91 or 93 pump fuel?
I'd think the first question would be considered boost level change but I'm not 100% sure.

If I would have kept my FoST and went down the STX rabbit hole, I'd have seeked out a tuner that knew what to do.

I'm glad I switched to my Fiesta for HS. It's fantastic at the regional level. Hopefully, 2017 I'll compete at the National level.
 


A7xogg

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#31
ive done autox for a few years on and off, the only thing i dont get is how they configure classing. tires make the biggest difference in a car but keep you in hs class. a tune puts you in csp cause all tunes for our cars add boost which would slow you down because it gonna add wheel spin everywhere on the autox class. i know they try to be fair but me in hs class yesterday vs the other hs cars is no competition because there on competition tires in a "stock" class and im on stock tires. im not hating on autox i love it, however it just doest make sense
 


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#32
ive done autox for a few years on and off, the only thing i dont get is how they configure classing. tires make the biggest difference in a car but keep you in hs class. a tune puts you in csp cause all tunes for our cars add boost which would slow you down because it gonna add wheel spin everywhere on the autox class. i know they try to be fair but me in hs class yesterday vs the other hs cars is no competition because there on competition tires in a "stock" class and im on stock tires. im not hating on autox i love it, however it just doest make sense
"competition" tires? Are you running with an SCCA region? If so, the tire ruling for HS aka H Street/Stock is minimum 200TW (your OEM 140TW tires are legal at the regional level). The OEM tire is NOT as sticky as the best street tire out there (Bridgestone RE71R) but with smooth clean driving, it can win.

I've won against guys running 255 RE71R's a couple times and have trophied at several NWOR SCCA events running my stock FiST.

The "hot" cheap ticket is 16x7" Sparco wheels +42mm offset and a set of RE71R's in either 205/45-16 or 205/50-16.

Personally, I'm going for a set of 205/50-16's for next season.
 


A7xogg

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#33
"competition" tires? Are you running with an SCCA region? If so, the tire ruling for HS aka H Street/Stock is minimum 200TW (your OEM 140TW tires are legal at the regional level). The OEM tire is NOT as sticky as the best street tire out there (Bridgestone RE71R) but with smooth clean driving, it can win.

I've won against guys running 255 RE71R's a couple times and have trophied at several NWOR SCCA events running my stock FiST.

The "hot" cheap ticket is 16x7" Sparco wheels +42mm offset and a set of RE71R's in either 205/45-16 or 205/50-16.

Personally, I'm going for a set of 205/50-16's for next season.
the fiesta that beat me runs that exact wheel/tire combo. I talked to him and said if cut 2 secs off him time,( i ran a 39.3 and his beast was 37.3). Yes its a scca club. To me tread rating doesnt really mean anything other than guideline. re71r;s are a 200a while the stock is a 140a but the re71r are alot more sticky
I had a civic i did multiple types of racing with and build it for myself and not to compete with a certain class( basic bolt ons, hondata, coilovers, light wheels with good tires, etc etc) and i put a civic tye r intake manifold on the car. becasue i put that intake manifold on the car which made the car like .1 sec faster in the 1/4 mile it moved me from stx class to dsp class. so i went from being competitive to not even close to competing. dsp in my reign is run by heavily modded bmw with 315 tires, etc etc that ran 5-8 sec faster every event than me becasue i did a mod than made no difference in my auto x times. like my buddy has a gti that he has a bunch of mods done and his tune puts him in sm class. at yesterdays event he tested to see if it would be faster to run in "stock" mode and guess what he was over a sec faster. car has kw coils starspec tires lots of bushings. SOrry bout ranting on but it just dont get how they come up with bumping a cars class with mods that dont make your car faster on the autox circuit.
 


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#34
the fiesta that beat me runs that exact wheel/tire combo. I talked to him and said if cut 2 secs off him time,( i ran a 39.3 and his beast was 37.3). Yes its a scca club. To me tread rating doesnt really mean anything other than guideline. re71r;s are a 200a while the stock is a 140a but the re71r are alot more sticky
I had a civic i did multiple types of racing with and build it for myself and not to compete with a certain class( basic bolt ons, hondata, coilovers, light wheels with good tires, etc etc) and i put a civic tye r intake manifold on the car. becasue i put that intake manifold on the car which made the car like .1 sec faster in the 1/4 mile it moved me from stx class to dsp class. so i went from being competitive to not even close to competing. dsp in my reign is run by heavily modded bmw with 315 tires, etc etc that ran 5-8 sec faster every event than me becasue i did a mod than made no difference in my auto x times. like my buddy has a gti that he has a bunch of mods done and his tune puts him in sm class. at yesterdays event he tested to see if it would be faster to run in "stock" mode and guess what he was over a sec faster. car has kw coils starspec tires lots of bushings. SOrry bout ranting on but it just dont get how they come up with bumping a cars class with mods that dont make your car faster on the autox circuit.
Because classing is designed for more than just one car. What might not do much on our cars, might make a world of difference for a different car. Street/stock class is intended to be run by, you guessed it, stock cars as they (mostly) came from the dealership, STX is mostly for NA cars with heavy suspension focus, and SMF is a catch-all. Modifying your car will put you into a modified class and that's pretty much how it should be. These rules were almost always made because a given mod was able to give one or two cars a horrendous advantage over everyone else in whatever class it was in. The rules aren't perfect, but they mostly do the job of keeping people on the same footing. If there isn't a rule for your modification, consider it not allowed. It's easier this way.

More than this, I think it really shows you how to set up a car. You often see stock class drivers out driving the snot out of the modified crowd by seconds at a time. It really makes you stop to think "is this modification REALLY going to make my car better/faster or am I just wasting my time and money"? It was a big eye opener for me, personally. Actual race teams in things like F1 and NASCAR deal with the same thing. You want to modify the car to play with the big boys on the street, then surely you can also run with them on the track. :p
 


M-Sport fan

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#35
More than this, I think it really shows you how to set up a car. You often see stock class drivers out driving the snot out of the modified crowd by seconds at a time. It really makes you stop to think "is this modification REALLY going to make my car better/faster or am I just wasting my time and money"? It was a big eye opener for me, personally.
It was an even BIGGER gap yet than it is today, back when the pure stock classes were still allowed to run the 00-50 tread wear 'gumball' pure race compound rubber, and the 'Street Modified' classes had to be on 200+ tread wear donuts. [wink]

I.e.; TIRES are your BIGGEST physical improvement mod, right behind the 'driver mod'.
 


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#36
You often see stock class drivers out driving the snot out of the modified crowd by seconds at a time.
Very true.

I used to run Street Tire Street Mod (TSM) with my swapped Impreza wagon (miss that car) and when it was broken I borrowed a friends' Street Tire A Stock (TAS) STi. I won the event and a guy in a modded EVO was looking over the car to see what was illegal on it. Hahaha...I told him it's got a front bar on it.
 


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#37
Reading thru this thread I figured I'd chime in.

To the original post, I'd just run that little Fiesta into the ground in it's stock class. I wouldn't touch a thing on the car (and haven't on mine.) The ST is a new car making it more measurable as far as comparing your times to others. This car is still reviewed in magazines. You'll know how close to it's full potential you are getting. Driving cars stock in autoX makes you a better AutoXer. I recently autoXed my Fiesta because my Fox body is well... limping... lol... and sure enough there was another Fiesta ST there with a Cobb tuner. I knew if I beat him I was at the very least better at a Fiesta ST than him(I did). I ran my fox body in F-stock until I wanted to lower it and consequently ended up in STX class where I was able to consistently podium using an engine that was apparently only pushing 60psi to each cylinder. My understanding of ST classes is this, you can do whatever you want with suspension and brakes. Your letter designator(f,x,u) is determined by tire width. You can run a 6 point cage and subframe connectors BUT in order to stay in an ST class they must be bolt on subframe connectors. I mentioned my foxbody pushing 60psi on all 8 to put emphasis on how little your engine matters in autoX. In ST classes you are allowed to modify everything before the throttle body and everything from the headers back, and you must of course run street tires. No engine internals or tunes in ST classes. I love ST class autoX. I'm rambling now haha, so to my original point; run that s.o.b. stock until the wheels fall off if you plan on making autoX your thing. Cheers!
 


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