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Manuals: Chilton vs. Helm

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#1
The issue of FiST service manuals comes up from time to time and as far as I've seen no one has recommended the Chilton online DIY manuals, so let me do so. They have a great manual for the 2015 Fiesta (which includes all trims, including ST). You can find it at http://chiltondiy.com. It is subscription based and costs $17 per month or $30 per year. However, each entry has a print button, so you can create your own print or pdf manual, which means that the manual could cost you as little as $17. (I'm not encouraging anyone to make copies to disseminate. These manuals cost lots of money to create, and if no one buys them, they will stop making them, ala Hayes.)

By way of comparison, I also purchased the OEM Ford Fiesta 2016 Service Information CD from http://helminc.com for $177. I was thoroughly unimpressed. The CD will only run on Windows computers -- i.e., no Mac OS, Linux, etc. -- and I wasn't even able to run it on Windows 10 inside a virtual machine on Mac OS (I don't know if the problem was Windows 10 compatibility or the VirtualBox software). Helm customer service said the software runs on Windows 7. I got it to run on Windows Vista (of all things).

Further, even though the CD installs (parts of) the service manual software on the computer, you are still required to have the CD in the optical drive whenever you use it, since it reads data off of it. (There is a way around this, but it requires copying the contents of the CD to the local computer and editing a configuration file by hand so that it points the program to the right place.)

So for the cost of the Helm manual, you can get a subscription to Chilton for six years.




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M-Sport fan

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#2
I really wish that there was a Helms PRINTED book(s) service manual(s).

I had these for my Z28 and they paid for themselves more than a thousand times over during the ~20 years of owning that car when I otherwise would have had to take the car to a dealer, or an indie shop, both of which charged ~$150.00+ an hour in my area at the time.

The Haynes, or Chilton versions for that car could not hold a candle to the details, given specs, or information in the Helms, and I PREFER an 'old school', page turning book when out near the grease, fluids, grime, and weather conditions of working on a car (even though I am not allowed to even have the hood open in my own driveway at my current residence), over an expensive (to me at least) laptop.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #3
I wish print versions were available, too. The online Chilton manual seems to be based on the official Ford service manual since all the entries say "Copyright Ford Motor Company" at the bottom. So I'd guess, for this vehicle, that Chilton has all the same details and vehicle specs as Helm. Also, it's worth noting that Chilton is searchable, whereas Helm isn't. But, I'm with you, I'd rather page through a physical manual than look things up on a laptop when I'm working on a car.
 


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I managed to snap a copy of the factory service manual on dvd, and am in the process of converting it to html. I have the main service manual for the Fiesta done, I'm just working on the wiring diagram part
 


Sourskittle

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I managed to snap a copy of the factory service manual on dvd, and am in the process of converting it to html. I have the main service manual for the Fiesta done, I'm just working on the wiring diagram part
I know at least one person that would pay for that, and I have the helm CD.

I replaced the cylinder head on my car with the helm. But no such thing as too much info when it comes to service manuals.
 


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I'm always good with donations ;)
I basically have the service manual portion done, just working on the wiring diagram part. I essentially have to create a "page" for each part from a bunch of xml's and svg files. The awesome thing about the "final" part is that it *should* run on anything that has a web browser
 


Sourskittle

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I'm always good with donations ;)
I basically have the service manual portion done, just working on the wiring diagram part. I essentially have to create a "page" for each part from a bunch of xml's and svg files. The awesome thing about the "final" part is that it *should* run on anything that has a web browser
I'll donate if you send me a CD, lol
 


OP
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Thread Starter #8
I feel compelled to point out that copying and distributing the contents of a Helm manual is a violation of copyright and, thus, illegal. Writing service manuals takes tremendous time and effort. It's labor for which people should be paid. Maybe I'm missing something, but this just seems like garden-variety theft.


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Sourskittle

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I feel compelled to point out that copying and distributing the contents of a Helm manual is a violation of copyright and, thus, illegal. Writing service manuals takes tremendous time and effort. It's labor for which people should be paid. Maybe I'm missing something, but this just seems like garden-variety theft.


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I already paid $180 for the helm. He's speaking about a ford factory service manual that should come with the car.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #12
I agree that the Ford service manual should come with the car, but it doesn't. Also, the Helm 2016 FiST CD that I purchased just is the Ford OEM service manual (see photo). This is also the case with the online Chilton manual, as far as I can tell.

By way of analogy, vehicle ECUs generate data -- e.g., oil pressure and temperature -- that I think Ford should make readable from the factory, but they don't. An accessport makes this data available, but it wouldn't be OK for me to steal, e.g., a Cobb AP just b/c Ford isn't servicing its customers. Cobb shouldn't be punished for Ford's sins.

Diseminating copyrighted vehicle documentation hurts companies like Helm and Chilton b/c it amounts to stealing their product. I think the Helm CD is badly done. I prefer the Chilton, but it is online only. The alternatives, as far as I can tell, are: (1) having no manual, or (2) the $2,700 per year Motocraft workshop manual subscription. If Helm and Chilton can't make money repurposing the Ford OEM manual, they will stop selling them. Stealing their product devalues it, thus making it less profitable.

Admittedly, this puts Ford customers in a bad spot. It would be nice if Ford would at least make the service manual available as an option when vehicles are purchased. Adding $200 to a $20,000 car seems reasonable. Alternatively, a crowd-sourced, FiST service manual with a Creative Commons license would help address the problem. [:)]

fordOEM.jpg
 


M-Sport fan

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#13
This DOES seem like a ploy to try and make sure that even capable DIYers HAVE TO go back to a Ford store's service dept. in order to have any work done ("you should NOT attempt ANY service/repairs on your own, and ONLY bring it to US" type attitude), and of course they will say we should not be modifying our cars ONE iota from factory spec/issue, so we do not need the detailed, intensive manuals for that purpose either. [mad]

I would GLADLY pay ~$250.00 for a Helms PRINTED book set of service manuals for this car, just like I did, and had for the last one. [wink]
 


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#14
I mean you can buy the service manual on cd on ebay for like 10 bucks. Granted you have to install the horrible interface software with it which only installs on windows....
 


OP
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This DOES seem like a ploy to try and make sure that even capable DIYers HAVE TO go back to a Ford store's service dept. in order to have any work done ("you should NOT attempt ANY service/repairs on your own, and ONLY bring it to US" type attitude), and of course they will say we should not be modifying our cars ONE iota from factory spec/issue, so we do not need the detailed, intensive manuals for that purpose either. [mad]
I think you're absolutely right. As a mechanical noob, I literally cannot identify many of the parts of my engine w/o a manual. I installed a mountune quick-shift billet after which point my A/C would only blow hot air. I figured I must have accidentally disconnected something, but I had no idea whether any of the stuff I took apart to install the billet was part of the A/C system. And I had no manual to refer to. So I searched some forums and read that this isn't uncommon and that the A/C resumes normal operation after a little bit of driving, and it did.
 


V_2

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#17
Seems US manufacturers are stingy with FSM information. I had no issues downloading the official OEM information for several Nissans and Hondas. In fancy PDF format, to boot!
 


Intuit

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............................. By way of comparison, I also purchased the OEM Ford Fiesta 2016 Service Information CD from http://helminc.com for $177. I was thoroughly unimpressed. The CD will only run on Windows computers -- i.e., no Mac OS, Linux, etc. -- and I wasn't even able to run it on Windows 10 inside a virtual machine on Mac OS (I don't know if the problem was Windows 10 compatibility or the VirtualBox software). Helm customer service said the software runs on Windows 7. I got it to run on Windows Vista (of all things).

Further, even though the CD installs (parts of) the service manual software on the computer, you are still required to have the CD in the optical drive whenever you use it, since it reads data off of it. (There is a way around this, but it requires copying the contents of the CD to the local computer and editing a configuration file by hand so that it points the program to the right place.)

..................
A PDF would be stupendous. I have a PDF for my other vehicles and it's great.

The following site claims to have them, but I smell a scam and don't trust them any farther than I can throw the building that the hosting server is operating out of.
https://www.factory-manuals.com/exp...2012-2013-2014-factory-repair-manual-329.html
Don't suppose anyone would be nice enough to be a guinea pig? [biggrin]

I know this is an old thread but thanks for the heads-up; hadn't known about Chilton's offering. I know past print manuals I've perused at the library were terribly done, so your review is encouraging.

Call me old-fashioned but I still prefer to own stuff, versus rent it, and had also purchased the Helm manual for my 2016. It sits on top of some ancient ODBC (database) software and it's probably that component that was giving you issues. The program won't install inside of a virtualized system due to the copy-protection layer that is embedded in the executable programs. It reads sub-channel data from the CD to verify that it isn't a copy and the virtualization may get in the way of that. The standard free options for imaging (such as ImgBurn) and mounting the ISO/Disc (Win8+10) do not include that sub-channel data. BIN/CUE/MDS disc image formats reportedly capture that data but you'll need third party software (more $$) to capture and mount the image on that system. http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/1284-Service-manual-needed-for-Fist-transaxle

If anyone manages to find or create a PDF with searchable text, please let us know.
 


M-Sport fan

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Call me old-fashioned but I still prefer to own stuff, versus rent it, and had also purchased the Helm manual for my 2016.
HA! IF you are "old fashioned", then I am PRE-stone age!! LOL

I also prefer to own the manuals, and like stated before, I personally would prefer the Helms in PRINTED PAPER book form, over ANY digital form, for use while working on a car in real time, sitting right on the air box top, strut tower, radiator support, or wherever. ;)
 


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