Brake pad choices for HPDE/TT cars?

[maestromaestro]

I've seen you mention your bedding-in disaster in multiple threads. Now I kinda want to hear the story. Did you write it up somewhere?

Why do you want me to relive this painful episode? [emoji25] Suffice it to say that the whole thing culminated in a fire. On the plus side, it gave me a rare opportunity to quantify the depths of my stupidity - doesn't happen very often that you can put a dollar sign on your actions.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[spoon]

Carbotech XP-10
Stock rotors
Stoptech lines
Motul RBF600
Bridgestone RE-11



Tracks:
Laguna Seca - 55F ambient, no fade, wet day.

Sonoma Raceway (normal layout) - 65F ambient, very minor fade at entry to turns 7 and 11. Overall very consistent initial bite and pedal feel through 6x 20min. sessions. I cooked the RBF600, changing to Torque RT700.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Carbotech XP-10
Stock rotors
Stoptech lines
Motul RBF600
Bridgestone RE-11



Tracks:
Laguna Seca - 55F ambient, no fade, wet day.

Sonoma Raceway (normal layout) - 65F ambient, very minor fade at entry to turns 7 and 11. Overall very consistent initial bite and pedal feel through 6x 20min. sessions. I cooked the RBF600, changing to Torque RT700.

Kind of surprised that the XP-10s are fading on you at all (EVEN 'a little bit')!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Now we can be 100%, taken from Mountune's website:

mountune RS-R High Performance Brake Pads have been developed to offer outstanding performance over a wide range of driving conditions. Engineered to our specifications exclusively by Hawk, the RS-R pad has been optimized with increased friction yet remaining essentially dust free. The Ferro-Carbon formula yields up to 40% greater stopping power without increased noise. This is the perfect pad compound for aggressive driving while remaining gentle on the brake rotors.

THANKS!

I wonder whether or not they really are a dedicated/bespoke compound, or just one of (and if so, WHICH one?) the various non- 'pure' racing compound Hawk offerings with Mountune's name on the box?

 

[spoon]

Kind of surprised that the XP-10s are fading on you at all (EVEN 'a little bit')!

I was driving fast. .

Changing out fluid to Torque RT700, and pads to XP-12. The pads will be more suited for when I throw NT-01 or R7s on. Looking into lightweight rotor options.. I would reaaallllly love a factory sized two-piece slotted rotor. Anyone?

 

[sidewaysallday]

Looking into lightweight rotor options.. I would reaaallllly love a factory sized two-piece slotted rotor. Anyone?

You and me both! I've looked into it (not very deep) and haven't come up with anything yet.

 

[Woods247]

I was driving fast. .

Changing out fluid to Torque RT700, and pads to XP-12. The pads will be more suited for when I throw NT-01 or R7s on. Looking into lightweight rotor options.. I would reaaallllly love a factory sized two-piece slotted rotor. Anyone?

I boiled RBF600 too. I switched to Type200 again since I had it in the shop. It was much better than the RBF600. I went ahead and ordered Castrol SRF so I can be done with brake fluid issues. Are you running XP10 front/rear? I was thinking of running XP10 front and XP8 rear or XP12 front XP10 rear.

 

[Jesse]

Did a second track day on my EBC yellowstuffs, (also have more power now (300whp) compared to last track day (225whp) Did really well the entire event 0 fade, after I left the track and pulled out onto the street I lost brakes completely Barely was able to come to a stop, I believe I cooked the brake fluid, So I babied it to my shop and bled the brakes got some synthetic dot 4 in it now, and it feels pretty good again after a week of daily driving. I also hot spotted rotors (stoptech slotted) on the front left and I am ordering another set of ebc yellowstuff and front stoptech rotors but they still have "life left on the pads" maybe 30-35% left, trying to get them warrantied out well see

 

[sidewaysallday]

Did a second track day on my EBC yellowstuffs, (also have more power now (300whp) compared to last track day (225whp) Did really well the entire event 0 fade, after I left the track and pulled out onto the street I lost brakes completely Barely was able to come to a stop, I believe I cooked the brake fluid, So I babied it to my shop and bled the brakes got some synthetic dot 4 in it now, and it feels pretty good again after a week of daily driving. I also hot spotted rotors (stoptech slotted) on the front left and I am ordering another set of ebc yellowstuff and front stoptech rotors but they still have "life left on the pads" maybe 30-35% left, trying to get them warrantied out well see

I had a similar experience with the EBC yellowstuffs. I glazed/grooved my brake rotors which means that they probably got a bit too hot on track. I too now have less stopping power on the street. I'll be installing new pads/rotors for my next event with the addition of brake cooling. I'm hoping a bit more aggressive pad coupled with the cooling will really help the longevity/reliability of my pads/rotors.

 

[juliog]

I've tested XP10 with 225 Dunlop ZII. The pads do OK but the rotors just aren't big enough. I grooved a brand new set of cryo-treated, slotted StopTech rotors in 1 session. So moving up to XP12 won't fix anything. Car needs BBK.

 

[awwwww_shift]

You and me both! I've looked into it (not very deep) and haven't come up with anything yet.

Did a second track day on my EBC yellowstuffs, (also have more power now (300whp) compared to last track day (225whp) Did really well the entire event 0 fade, after I left the track and pulled out onto the street I lost brakes completely Barely was able to come to a stop, I believe I cooked the brake fluid, So I babied it to my shop and bled the brakes got some synthetic dot 4 in it now, and it feels pretty good again after a week of daily driving. I also hot spotted rotors (stoptech slotted) on the front left and I am ordering another set of ebc yellowstuff and front stoptech rotors but they still have "life left on the pads" maybe 30-35% left, trying to get them warrantied out well see

I have reached out to Racing Brake to see if they wanted to develop a 2-pc stock sized rotor for our cars. They didn't jump at the chance, but if there are more interested parties and we can approach them with a group buy situation, they may be more receptive.

EBC pads are ceramic, and therefore don't handle extreme heat as well as a semi-met pad. I've had bad luck with EBC pads in the past, so I tend to avoid them like the plague(had the friction material fall off the backing plate on 3 seperate sets after autox and light hpde duty).
The other thing that may have happened in the brake failure after the track day was a thermal shock to the friction material. I've had that before on multiple different pad compounds after pushing them beyond their acceptable temp "happy place". (albeit never to the point of a complete loss of brakes)...

Lots of good info in here. Good open discussion too, not "my brake setup is da bestest because it's never let me down"... And I appreciate that!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Would there be any possible problems (more chance of 'knockback'/etc.) with using a two piece rotor system with our factory sliding calipers?

(SERIOUSLY asking a question, NOT trying to be snide, or contrarian.)

 

[sidewaysallday]

I have reached out to Racing Brake to see if they wanted to develop a 2-pc stock sized rotor for our cars. They didn't jump at the chance, but if there are more interested parties and we can approach them with a group buy situation, they may be more receptive.

EBC pads are ceramic, and therefore don't handle extreme heat as well as a semi-met pad. I've had bad luck with EBC pads in the past, so I tend to avoid them like the plague(had the friction material fall off the backing plate on 3 seperate sets after autox and light hpde duty).
The other thing that may have happened in the brake failure after the track day was a thermal shock to the friction material. I've had that before on multiple different pad compounds after pushing them beyond their acceptable temp "happy place". (albeit never to the point of a complete loss of brakes)...

Lots of good info in here. Good open discussion too, not "my brake setup is da bestest because it's never let me down"... And I appreciate that!

I would be interested to see what 2J could come up with...

Yeah overall I wasn't thrilled with the yellowstuffs and am looking to add cooling and up the temp threshold on my next set of pads. I defineltly over overcooked them.

Would there be any possible problems (more chance of 'knockback'/etc.) with using a two piece rotor system with our factory sliding calipers?

(SERIOUSLY asking a question, NOT trying to be snide, or contrarian.)

It's more of a possibility than with a solid rotor I believe due to the 2 piece being able to flex and move around a bit more. I've gotten in the habbit of tapping the brakes ever so slightly after a long straight just to set the pads right back up against the rotors again which eliminates the sunken heart feeling of pushing the pedal down waaaay harder than you anticipated you had to with knockback.

 

[awwwww_shift]

It's more of a possibility than with a solid rotor I believe due to the 2 piece being able to flex and move around a bit more. I've gotten in the habbit of tapping the brakes ever so slightly after a long straight just to set the pads right back up against the rotors again which eliminates the sunken heart feeling of pushing the pedal down waaaay harder than you anticipated you had to with knockback.

What he said. Knockback usually isn't an issue unless you tend to hop curbs(or kerbs, depending on where you picked up the lingo). My driving style and most of the cars I've setup tended to stay off them, but there was that 1 car that unless you were all up in them, you weren't fast.

Either way, it's a good habit at the track to start using(not just for knockback, but feeling for brake fade as well) of tapping the pedal for pressure before you get to the big brake zones.

I've had a few close calls over the years coming down into T5 and T12 at Road America at 130+mph with a soft pedal... let me tell you, pucker happens... and you learn a new respect for proper pads, fluid, and prep to cars... But when you get it right, and are hanging with prepped C5Z06's in a rust bucket 98 neon...

 

[M-Sport fan]

What he said. Knockback usually isn't an issue unless you tend to hop curbs(or kerbs, depending on where you picked up the lingo). My driving style and most of the cars I've setup tended to stay off them, but there was that 1 car that unless you were all up in them, you weren't fast.

Either way, it's a good habit at the track to start using(not just for knockback, but feeling for brake fade as well) of tapping the pedal for pressure before you get to the big brake zones.

I've had a few close calls over the years coming down into T5 and T12 at Road America at 130+mph with a soft pedal... let me tell you, pucker happens... and you learn a new respect for proper pads, fluid, and prep to cars... But when you get it right, and are hanging with prepped C5Z06's in a rust bucket 98 neon...

Thanks!
...and the bolded above is MOST EXCELLENT advise!!

 

[Crooked Letta]

Thanks!
...and the bolded above is MOST EXCELLENT advise!!

Don't forget FWD vehicles work well with a little left foot braking to.

 

[awwwww_shift]

Don't forget FWD vehicles work well with a little left foot braking to.

Just be wary of the wonderful brake intervention in our cars(the one where it cuts power if you're foot is on the brake for too long)...

 

[Crooked Letta]

Just be wary of the wonderful brake intervention in our cars(the one where it cuts power if you're foot is on the brake for too long)...

One of the main reasons I was tuned with in 200 miles of ownership lol

 

[Crooked Letta]

Just be wary of the wonderful brake intervention in our cars(the one where it cuts power if you're foot is on the brake for too long)...

One of the main reasons I was tuned with in 200 miles of ownership lol