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Does anyone left foot brake?

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#24
Ehh on the street (dry pavement) I've found its mostly pointless unless I need to transfer weight quickly.

But left foot braking on anything loose, gravel, dirt, grass, sand, wet pavement and it is like adding a whole new dynamic to car control. Not just this car but any really. The FIST though has really good response and you're really able to dial in weight, steering, turn angles, stability and traction with left foot braking in the loose.
 


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#26
One of the first faults I found with my FiST on the way home from delivery and the main reason I sprung for a tune so quick :)

I've been to TON twice to complete my 5 day training and sadly after being on some real stages along with a lightly prepped FiST it gets a little discouraging LFB on the road. A loose surface teaches you the art of LFB and balance, using weight transfer to steer the car more so then using the steering itself. When you get on a loose surface you can easily see how LFB is a must and the control it gives you, this is far less apparent on pavement and if your not familiar with LFB I would at least suggest learning on a loose surface first so you get the intent of what you are trying to with LFB in the first place.

That being said I will LFB on occasion just to keep sensitivity in my left foot. Luckily (depending how optimistic you are) we get the white stuff around here so I get some decent time to keep my skills sharp in winter as well. Parking lot wise, as long as it's big enough you can LFB but slow speed stuff, the E-brake does a better job at rotation. The FiST is pretty lively and is a bit more fun to LFB over my FoST. Snow is a great way to learn as the speeds are less and inconsistency can be drastic (or consistent) depending on conditions, this is where LFB shines and you learn the true nature of why using weight transfer is a better reason the using steering input to get around a bend.

On pavement the need for LFB becomes less apparent as you really are not trying to rotate the car nearly as much on a loose surface. The major reasons to use LFB on pavement is stability in a turn and some could argue with reaction to braking but you are talking 1/100ths of a second. Tight technical courses can be a case for LFB just be aware with timing those shifts, and fast courses are no exception with LFB and keeping stability through high speed sweepers.

LFB is also different for different vehicles. FWD vehicles take to LFB very well in the way they deliver power, you can play with the balance and it is natural in terms of what you want to do. I would suggest any one who has not ventured into this technique to at least try, TON and other rally school usually have some reasonable 1 day courses to get a stab at this. The FiST is one of the best vehicles to learn on but you will need a tune to enable it, otherwise it cuts throttle. If you never get on a loose surface or something like snow/ice, you are missing out on fully understanding the full potential of LFB.
 


Intuit

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#27
Since I've spent 99% of my driving time behind a manual shift, on the rare occasion I'm in an auto, I've had a couple of times where my left foot has shot over to the brake, looking for that clutch pedal. [?|] Fortunately no one has been behind me when that happened.

Reading the thread has made me a little curious, and will daintily press it at LOW cornering speeds to gauge it's affect. I have no intent on using it outside of an emergency situation though... which probably translates to never.
 


BRGT350

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#28
Yeah, to get LFB to work on the street with dry pavement and decent tires, you need way more speed than you should ever have on the street. I do use it on the street to help with keeping my left foot sensitive to the brake pedal. Once winter hits, my foot is already trained.

As for ESC, LFB works in all modes, but is way more effective with ESC off. With the ESC fully off, I can LFB to get a proper flick turn, where it is almost impossible with the system on. I can upset the system enough using the handbrake in the snow, but it isn't very smooth. System fully off and LFB will allow for very nice flick turns and a balanced car.

Posted earlier was about the throttle cut with the brake on. Thanks to Toyota, the car allows for 20 seconds of brake throttle overlap to avoid the "my car keeps accelerating while my foot is on the brake" issue that I never really bought anyway. Lift off the throttle and quickly reapply resets the timer. In early development of the Fiesta, there wasn't enough overlap time and you couldn't heel-and-toe downshift.

I use LFB when autocrossing my Fiesta and Mustang have found it to be quicker. Most, if not all at this point, F1 drivers use it. You can tell on TV when they show the throttle and brake % and it overlaps. Watch any professional series and the brake lights during trail braking or in-car footage of the feet working will show you how much it is used.
 


BRGT350

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#29
Since I've spent 99% of my driving time behind a manual shift, on the rare occasion I'm in an auto, I've had a couple of times where my left foot has shot over to the brake, looking for that clutch pedal. [?|] Fortunately no one has been behind me when that happened.

Reading the thread has made me a little curious, and will daintily press it at LOW cornering speeds to gauge it's affect. I have no intent on using it outside of an emergency situation though... which probably translates to never.
problem with only using it in an emergency is that your brain takes too long to process the information and react. Using it everyday sets your brain up to react without thinking. If your foot isn't over the brake and something comes up, it takes too long to move your feet. Time equals distance and distance is what you need to avoid a crash.
 


M-Sport fan

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#30
Posted earlier was about the throttle cut with the brake on. Thanks to Toyota, the car allows for 20 seconds of brake throttle overlap to avoid the "my car keeps accelerating while my foot is on the brake" issue that I never really bought anyway. Lift off the throttle and quickly reapply resets the timer. In early development of the Fiesta, there wasn't enough overlap time and you couldn't heel-and-toe downshift.
IS there a way that this can be 'written'/tuned out of the ECU on our cars, or is it so encrypted/buried in there by NHTSA decree that this would never be possible without a stand alone engine management system (Motec, Big Squirt 3, etc., etc.)? [dunno]

Ironically, the "Scandinavian Flick" has been proven to be not as quick as the 'Gallic Racing Line' as of late on the WRC's various stages, using AWD cars, albeit much more spectacular to watch. LOL
But it does seem to be used by EVERY ONE of the WRC pilots on those uphill/downhill acute angle, decreasing radius type turns, even on tarmac. ;)
 


BRGT350

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#31
I have never attempted a flick turn at a timed event, instead I use it around town in the winter since you don't need much speed to do it on ice :)

I believe there is a way for the overlap to be tuned out, but nobody is going to do it on a street car. Nobody wants that liability!
 


M-Sport fan

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#32
I have never attempted a flick turn at a timed event, instead I use it around town in the winter since you don't need much speed to do it on ice :)
Same here, but I DID use LFB for weight transfer while autocrossing on the very last FWD car I owned (an '89 A2 GTI 16V), more than 20 years ago.
 


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#33
IS there a way that this can be 'written'/tuned out of the ECU on our cars, or is it so encrypted/buried in there by NHTSA decree that this would never be possible without a stand alone engine management system (Motec, Big Squirt 3, etc., etc.)? [dunno]

Ironically, the "Scandinavian Flick" has been proven to be not as quick as the 'Gallic Racing Line' as of late on the WRC's various stages, using AWD cars, albeit much more spectacular to watch. LOL
But it does seem to be used by EVERY ONE of the WRC pilots on those uphill/downhill acute angle, decreasing radius type turns, even on tarmac. ;)

A tuner can eliminate Throttle cut from LFB

A pendulum turn is used for many reasons but it's main purpose is wrong side of the road and the need to scrub of speed. If your coming into too hot and find your self on the wrong side of a sharp turn this is when to use it. Other wise normal late apexing will suffice and be quicker. You have to remember it's a bag of tricks used in different situations that depends primarily on stage notes and varying conditions. The reconnaissance lap isn't done at full tilt so sometimes scrubbing off a little more speed is just playing it safe and a guarantee way out of the corner on a 1 or a 2.
 


M-Sport fan

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#34
A tuner can eliminate Throttle cut from LFB

A pendulum turn is used for many reasons but it's main purpose is wrong side of the road and the need to scrub of speed. If your coming into too hot and find your self on the wrong side of a sharp turn this is when to use it. Other wise normal late apexing will suffice and be quicker. You have to remember it's a bag of tricks used in different situations that depends primarily on stage notes and varying conditions. The reconnaissance lap isn't done at full tilt so sometimes scrubbing off a little more speed is just playing it safe and a guarantee way out of the corner on a 1 or a 2.
^^^Of course, but I was speaking to an overall general style used by some WRC drivers a majority of the time, like when they showed an ariel view of the same turn taken by both Ogier, and Breen on a stage of Corsica (I think, but it was tarmac) last year.

The top drivers absolutely use EVERY trick in the book as far as driving styles go, and maybe the example above is 200% due to experience level differences. ;)

The bolded above is especially poignant and noteworthy, and why pace notes are a "best guess" at actual stage conditions/corner speeds.
 


Intuit

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#35
problem with only using it in an emergency is that your brain takes too long to process the information and react. Using it everyday sets your brain up to react without thinking. If your foot isn't over the brake and something comes up, it takes too long to move your feet. Time equals distance and distance is what you need to avoid a crash.
Besides being pretty good at avoiding emergency situations to start with, this is another reason why I stated, "...which probably translates to never."

However some emergency situations do occur in slow motion, particularly since we get slippery weather and are in a valley. If you're not going up a hill, it's only because you're headed down one.
 


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#36
I think we can all agree it's a good skill to have.

Just a quick observation:

Another good way to practice the concept and sensitivity is to ride a motorcycle. Your left foot becomes very sensitive due to shifting, weight balancing, and sensing slip especially through a boot.
I owe alot of my clutch/brake foot modulation and good part of that "drivers sense" that we all develop in our own ways to riding bikes which requires one to balance all these things, and it gives an immediate response as to whether the method utilized is effective, especially in dirt riding.
 


M-Sport fan

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#38
Some left foot brake action from this weekend. Applying LFB selectively on some corners:

[video=youtube;W0VsFA7KD_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0VsFA7KD_0[/video]
Nice!

Did you get the Puma stuff directly from Chad DiMarco's Sube Sports, or one of the vendors he distributes to?
I remember him as a driver on the SCCA Pro Rally events, way before he started that company.
 


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#39
Nice!

Did you get the Puma stuff directly from Chad DiMarco's Sube Sports, or one of the vendors he distributes to?
I remember him as a driver on the SCCA Pro Rally events, way before he started that company.
I purchased the gloves at Subesports showroom in Huntington Beach indeed :)
 


Intuit

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#40
Some left foot brake action from this weekend. Applying LFB selectively on some corners:
Thanks. Now I know I won't bother. [wink] (never plan to track)
I can see the advantage for allowing you to more closely "toe the line" in terms of maximum speed through a turn. Otherwise you'd loose too much reaction time and would have to compensate by driving more conservatively.

Totally carve'n up some rubber there.
Whar were the peak speeds ?
 




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