Next Generation Fiesta ST Debut

[TrickSTer]

I would have thought the interior with the stitching on the dash, the pic that was released earlier, would have been in the ST

 

[MichiganST]

So the issue in my mind is that the new Fiesta is moving up-market to make more room for the Ka. I mean just look at the interior, it seems pretty well equipped and the assumption is they also improved NVH as well as interior materials. All this adds weight and while usually new models can drop some weight, this Fiesta is on the same chassis as the last so I really don't think we will see any noticeably change (more than 50 pounds) in curb weight.

Also the issue with the 3 cylinders is that all it's power will basically come from boost to hit 200hp. Meaning it will feel sluggish off boost, and from a tuning perspective, cylinder pressures within the cylinders is going to be absolutely ridiculous. Obviously tuning only affects a very small percentage of the marketplace, but that is why I'm off put by it.

The 200hp figure is probably before boost. In europe the manufacturers aren't allowed to advertise a car's boost number as its actual power figure. So when they say the 197hp is 17 more than the previous they are talking about the advertised 180hp used in EU (note they also say it's equal to its boost number). It will be higher than that when the boost hits, probably in line with the ST200s boost figure (212hp).

 

[speed_easy]

I'm going to go ahead and say it - the interior is gorgeous (for an economy hatchback). Am seeing styling elements from Mazda, VW, and Cadillac, among others.

 

[Goingnowherefast]

The 200hp figure is probably before boost. In europe the manufacturers aren't allowed to advertise a car's boost number as its actual power figure. So when they say the 197hp is 17 more than the previous they are talking about the advertised 180hp used in EU (note they also say it's equal to its boost number). It will be higher than that when the boost hits, probably in line with the ST200s boost figure (212hp).

Oh I'm talking about regular boost, not the overboost function. To get that much power out of a 3 cylinder 1.5L, the car will already be pushing some pretty high boost to get there.

 

[Devon]

Unless there is some as-yet unmentioned significant overboost above the 197 hp I doubt the North American market is going to be too impressed with this engine, in fact it's likely to be the butt of many a snarky joke on car forums and blogs.

If they have managed to drop 50+pounds off the front axle with the new powerplant though that should help produce more neutral handling. And thank you Ford for finally making Liquid Blue a production paint! Just don't charge an obscene amount extra for it.

 

[Crooked Letta]

So the issue in my mind is that the new Fiesta is moving up-market to make more room for the Ka. I mean just look at the interior, it seems pretty well equipped and the assumption is they also improved NVH as well as interior materials. All this adds weight and while usually new models can drop some weight, this Fiesta is on the same chassis as the last so I really don't think we will see any noticeably change (more than 50 pounds) in curb weight.

Also the issue with the 3 cylinders is that all it's power will basically come from boost to hit 200hp. Meaning it will feel sluggish off boost, and from a tuning perspective, cylinder pressures within the cylinders is going to be absolutely ridiculous. Obviously tuning only affects a very small percentage of the marketplace, but that is why I'm off put by it.

Yes that is my fear.

I wouldn't worry too much about cylinder count. I know what your saying but not entirely true in terms of cylinder pressure and making power just off boost. You just have larger cylinders and in terms of displacement it is a 100cc loss. The 3 cyl is kind of new in the auto world, but you only really have to look at bikes as an example of what truly dictates power output (displacement). Again feeling sluggish has more to do with displacement over anything else followed by efficiency but with DI you don't see that any more as you can run high compression ratios. That is the other big key right there and also determines cylinder pressures but will greatly effect off boost performance.

 

[MichiganST]

Oh I'm talking about regular boost, not the overboost function. To get that much power out of a 3 cylinder 1.5L, the car will already be pushing some pretty high boost to get there.

Just trying to wrap my head around this, engines aren't my forte. So you're saying there will be a constantly held boost in order to hit the 197hp so that it always makes that number, and then an overboost that goes higher? My understanding was that in order to advertise the numbers in EU it couldn't be a temporarily held figure, had to be the normal output.

 

[Devon]

I'm going to go ahead and say it - the interior is gorgeous (for an economy hatchback). Am seeing styling elements from Mazda, VW, and Cadillac, among others.

It's certainly better than the current disaster, but hardly up to the standards of VW. It still appears to be a slightly clunky mishmash of shapes, finishes, and textures, although a final judgment will have to wait until it can be seen in person..

 

[BoostBumps]

...

The biggest news is the move to an-all new engine configuration. The 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbo used in the current car is out, replaced by a lightweight, aluminium 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo.

The new motor produces 197bhp. That?s 17bhp up on the standard output of the current Fiesta ST, but equal to its ?overboost? figure. Torque swells from 240Nm to 290Nm, and Ford claims that the new Fiesta ST can crack 0-62mph in 6.7 seconds ? two tenths quicker than the current generation model and on par with the ST200...

 

[Devon]

Just trying to wrap my head around this, engines aren't my forte. So you're saying there will be a constantly held boost in order to hit the 197hp so that it always makes that number, and then an overboost that goes higher? My understanding was that in order to advertise the numbers in EU it couldn't be a temporarily held figure, had to be the normal output.

That is correct. But Ford Europe seems to be holding back on what (if any) overboost the new car will have.

As the overboost goes for over 10 seconds now (can't recall the exact time), making the current hp level with overboost (200 hp) permanent in the new engine won't have much real impact on experienced performance. That claimed .2 second improvement in 0-100 kph is most likely coming from the new engine's fatter torque curve with an additional 37 ft-lb on tap, not overboost.

 

[DaveG99]

Im confused. They say the new model is 290nm up from 240nm. That isnt true. The current model has more than 240nm (177 ft lbs). Can someone explain the hp and torque specs.

 

[BoostBumps]

That is correct. But Ford Europe seems to be holding back on what (if any) overboost the new car will have.

As the overboost goes for over 10 seconds now (can't recall the exact time), making the current hp level with overboost (200 hp) permanent in the new engine won't have much real impact on experienced performance. That claimed .2 second improvement in 0-100 kph must be coming from the fatter torque curve with the addiitonal 37 ft-lb on tap.

I'm sure the new lightweight aluminum 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo also has reduced overall curb weight...

Would be interesting to know if they also replaced the turbo with a more efficient one...

 

[DaveG99]

I'm going to go ahead and say it - the interior is gorgeous (for an economy hatchback). Am seeing styling elements from Mazda, VW, and Cadillac, among others.

I dont see interior pics. Am i missing something

 

[Devon]

Anyone know if Ford is planning a simultaneous release to the N. American market this time? That way we too can elect to be one of the guinea pigs testing out the reliability of a brand-new, highly stressed engine design with a sky-high compression ratio and high boost levels....

 

[MichiganST]

Im confused. They say the new model is 290nm up from 240nm. That isnt true. The current model has more than 240nm (177 ft lbs). Can someone explain the hp and torque specs.

The 240Nm (177ftlb) is the number before the boost kicks in. In Europe they aren't allowed to advertise overboost power figures as that isn't what you get normally. So in the US the advertised torque and power are the WITH boost numbers, whereas other countries are WITHOUT boost.

 

[BoostBumps]

...we too can elect to be one of the guinea pigs testing out the reliability of a brand-new, highly stressed engine design with a sky-high compression ratio and high boost levels....

We don't know if boost levels will be any higher than current Fiesta...There has been no mention if the old stock turbo was replaced with a more efficient one...That said, I'm sure we'll get more details at Geneva Auto Show in a few weeks

 

[Devon]

I'm sure the new lightweight aluminum 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo also has reduced overall curb weight...

Would be interesting to know if they also replaced the turbo with a more efficient one...

Is the current engine all-aluminum? If it is I don't see the weight coming down much, displacement is only dropping by .1 liters.

Current torque on overboost is the same as the permanent torque on the new engine so the better accleration is either from weight loss or overboost on the new engine that Ford has yet to talk about.

 

[DaveG99]

The 240Nm (177ftlb) is the number before the boost kicks in. In Europe they aren't allowed to advertise overboost power figures as that isn't what you get normally. So in the US the advertised torque and power are the WITH boost numbers, whereas other countries are WITHOUT boost.

Ok. So the overboost numbers arent out yet. Seems strange that the new fiesta has the same exact numbers (without overboost) as the current fiesta.

 

[Bretley]

Not gonna lie, it does look pretty friggin cool, inside and out. It has a dual sunroof/moonroof option I'm assuming by looking at some pics. Pretty cool. Just curious on what the limits are gonna be for this 3 cylinder. Guess only time will tell.

 

[BoostBumps]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a32726/new-2017-ford-fiesta-st/

The biggest news here is the powertrain. For 2017, the European ST drops the zippy 197-horsepower 1.6-liter turbo-four, and replaces it with an EcoBoost-based 1.5-liter turbocharged three-cylinder engine. Despite the loss in cylinder count, power goes up to 200 horsepower, while torque grows to 214 lb.-ft.

Instead of opting to fit a limited slip differential for this generation, the 2017 Fiesta ST will continue to use a brake-vectoring system for the front wheels to improve turn-in and discourage wheelspin. 18-inch wheels come standard, as well as sport-oriented Recaro seats, . Like the last car, it will be offered in three- and five-door variants.