2018 Focus ST could get 1.5L EcoBoost with 279 hp

[Fiesta ST News]

The launch of the next-generation Ford Focus will be spearheaded by petrol and diesel ST models, with up to 275bhp from a high-tech turbocharged 1.5-litre engine in the petrol version.

The ST hot hatches will go on sale soon after the mainstream Focus late next year and appear in five-door and estate bodystyles.

Details of the new ST are still scarce, but Ford sees performance models as vital to distinguish the Focus from its rivals in a crowded market. So far, ST models have been more popular than the more recently launched Vignale luxury variants.

The STs are expected to maintain their formula of affordable and accessible performance, combined with road manners that encourage everyday use.

One potential change is a move to downsized turbo engines from today's 2.0-litre four-cylinder diesel and petrol units. This would satisfy the new Real Driving Emissions (RDE) test and the 2021 average fleet CO2 standard of 95g/km, which will be introduced two years after the next Focus is launched.

Ford has a new family of 1.5-litre four-cylinder petrol engines designed for the new emissions regulations, but extracting the 250bhpplus required to keep the ST competitive will be a technical challenge. That would mean a specific output of at least 160bhp per litre, much more than the 125bhp per litre extracted from the current 2.0-litre Ecoboost and even more than the 150bhp per litre from the 2.3-litre Focus RS.

However, Ford is believed to be looking at twin-scroll turbocharging, direct injection and cylinder deactivation technology to deliver the required power boost and fuel economy to make the next Focus ST a practical proposition.

The 1.5-litre three-cylinder Ecoboost engine in the new Fiesta ST generates 131bhp per litre, so getting 150bhp or 160bhp per litre out of the Focus ST's four-pot engine should be within Ford's reach with this suite of technologies.

There will continue to be a hot diesel model, because it contributes about half of Focus ST sales (52% in the UK and 47% on the Continent). Whether it moves to a 1.5-litre capacity or sticks with 2.0 litres is unclear.

"The diesel is important for the Focus ST," Ford Performance project engineer Tyrone Johnson said at the recent Geneva motor show.

The debut of the new Focus ST looks set to take place in spring 2018, about six months after the new mainstream and luxury Focus models are first seen at the tail end of this year. Autocar sources suggest the launch will not be scheduled for the Frankfurt motor show in September. Instead, sources say, Ford favours a unique event like the Fiesta's 'Go Further' launch, which was streamed globally.

Mainstream and luxury Focus Vignale models are expected to go on sale in autumn 2018, followed soon after by the ST models.

Read more on Autocar.

 

[Crooked Letta]

Interesting, but seriously doubtful. One thing is certain, and that being the next FoST will have more then 252hp. I could see 200hp out of the 1.5 and plausible fit for the FiST, but not the FoST.

I love how the article states the specific output is possible through technology already in use lol. It would be pretty laggy for one, and I doubt will be able to achieve emissions, at least not at that output level. I think the 2.0 is here to stay but I do hope they update it. It is really an economy engine in a sporty vehicle and has a bunch of limitations.

The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle. The 1.6 does an amazing job with Hybrid's and only finding the limit of fuel after adding 70% power which is very respectable. If the 1.5 can do the same and at least give customers a chance to crank things up with out internals or aux fuel and maintaining reliability, can't complain.

Take that reasonable outlook on the 80% of customer who do some sort of modding to their vehicle and you would essentially be handing them a not so happy platform to tinker with in terms of power adding with a 280hp 1.5L. Well the problem is that there is always room to play, engines are not strung out from the factory and that is due to reliability. So you would have a very well built and stout 1.5 able to handle 280hp and meet Ford requirements but that's in durability and would fail in terms of drivability when it comes to Ford's view of how an ecoboost should respond (no lag). You could incorporate things like twincharging but that wouldn't happen because ST, not RS. You could also argue well Hybrids meet this and then some on the 1.6, but you can't add another 80lbft or 100lbft in the FoST with just a tune and that goes back to durability and being in the happy zone, not strung out to point like people do when modding. This is also why TQ is a better indication of an engines limits over power. Power is a wall that can be countered with revs, TQ is limited by physics and combustion properties in line with heat management, knock knock, who's there? Detonation! TQ is effected greatly by displacement, where power is more about heat and flow then being able to maintain that TQ through out the rev range (multiplying displacement and simultaneously using mechanical advantage).

 

[jmrtsus]

A few numbers to show where we stand and where we can go.

2.3L Ecoboost (modded) Mustang is being sold at a Ford dealer with 550 HP = 239 HP per litre, 138 CI = 3.98 HP per CI

1.6L Ecoboost Fiesta ST 197 HP = 123 HP per litre, 96 CI = 2.05 HP per CI

1.6L Fiesta ST Mountune 215 HP = 134 HP per litre, 96 CI = 2.24 HP per CI

2.3L Ecoboost Focus RS 350 HP = 152 HP per litre, 138 CI = 2.53 HP per CI


Using the HP per CI makes it easy to compare with some of the vaunted "muscle car" engines.

A Mopar 426 Hemi if built to the same state as our stock Fiesta ST would produce 873 HP

The Olds 455 would be 933 HP.


Built to the modded Mustangs state a 426 Hemi would produce 1695 HP.

And the 455 would be 1811 HP.

Wonder which are the real "muscle cars"?

 

[thePete]

The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle. The 1.6 does an amazing job with Hybrid's and only finding the limit of fuel after adding 70% power which is very respectable. If the 1.5 can do the same and at least give customers a chance to crank things up with out internals or aux fuel and maintaining reliability, can't complain.

Then I'm sorry, but you bought the wrong car. It's great that guys are squeezing all this power out of these little things, but that was never the intent of this car, nor was it the target audience. And I hate to break it to the vast majority of modders, but you are not their target audience either. They need a product that is insurable, warrantyable, and reasonable to maintain and own by the average user. They're not going to release it with 400whp, because that's silly in a 2800lb, FWD hatch. They also are not going to build it capable of handling 3x the power it comes with for 100,000mi, because that would be silly also. Why would they waste that much money over-engineering their car just so you can put a huge turbo on it and ruin the balance of a car that they spent thousands of engineering hours on? I'm not poo-pooing on people who chase big power with these cars; quite the contrary. They make it easier for the rest of us who want more reasonable power numbers able to do so safely. We need people pushing the boundaries. We also need to realize and accept that they are not the people this car was built for and it's silly to presume otherwise.

I'm really interested in how reliable a 200hp 1.5l 3-pot will be in something that's not a sport-bike. Also: I noticed they mentioned a disel FoST? Cool. GTD competitor. I loves me some soot action.

 

[Crooked Letta]

Then I'm sorry, but you bought the wrong car. It's great that guys are squeezing all this power out of these little things, but that was never the intent of this car, nor was it the target audience. And I hate to break it to the vast majority of modders, but you are not their target audience either. They need a product that is insurable, warrantyable, and reasonable to maintain and own by the average user. They're not going to release it with 400whp, because that's silly in a 2800lb, FWD hatch. They also are not going to build it capable of handling 3x the power it comes with for 100,000mi, because that would be silly also. Why would they waste that much money over-engineering their car just so you can put a huge turbo on it and ruin the balance of a car that they spent thousands of engineering hours on? I'm not poo-pooing on people who chase big power with these cars; quite the contrary. They make it easier for the rest of us who want more reasonable power numbers able to do so safely. We need people pushing the boundaries. We also need to realize and accept that they are not the people this car was built for and it's silly to presume otherwise.

I'm really interested in how reliable a 200hp 1.5l 3-pot will be in something that's not a sport-bike. Also: I noticed they mentioned a disel FoST? Cool. GTD competitor. I loves me some soot action.

I'm a little confused because everything you stated is basically what I stated but with specifics and detailed logic????? I'm well aware of what this vehicle is capable of and the targeted audience not to mention what the engineers intended it to be. On a broader spectrum the capability of a platform is important to the engineers as modding is a part of culture no matter the brand, they know this but on the flip side I was more talking about happy medium. The engine needs to be designed with in a certain parameter and can not be strung out to meet those targets, this leaves room for the aftermarket to play that is all I was stating and why I don't see a 1.5 producing that specific output from the factory in terms of how Ford want's the Ecoboost line to deliver power.

The STD has also been out for some time overseas.

Be careful when you make such bold statements as I bought the wrong car. I gave no indication of that nor do I have sleepless nights on how to extract every little bit of performance out of my vehicle. The FiST is an amazing vehicle and I have had many opportunities to drive the vehicle on rally stages and the track at the limit, I know what it can do which is why I bought the vehicle. I do like to mod vehicles and if you have read any of my posts comparing this to my FoST you would see that the FiST in my eyes doesn't need a lot of modding compared to the Focus, and even the little things are a lot better, like Heel & Toe. I just don't understand where in my post you got any negativity in terms that the FiST isn't for me??????

 

[jmrtsus]

Then I'm sorry, but you bought the wrong car. It's great that guys are squeezing all this power out of these little things, but that was never the intent of this car, nor was it the target audience. And I hate to break it to the vast majority of modders, but you are not their target audience either. They need a product that is insurable, warrantyable, and reasonable to maintain and own by the average user. They're not going to release it with 400whp, because that's silly in a 2800lb, FWD hatch. They also are not going to build it capable of handling 3x the power it comes with for 100,000mi, because that would be silly also. Why would they waste that much money over-engineering their car just so you can put a huge turbo on it and ruin the balance of a car that they spent thousands of engineering hours on? I'm not poo-pooing on people who chase big power with these cars; quite the contrary. They make it easier for the rest of us who want more reasonable power numbers able to do so safely. We need people pushing the boundaries. We also need to realize and accept that they are not the people this car was built for and it's silly to presume otherwise.

I'm really interested in how reliable a 200hp 1.5l 3-pot will be in something that's not a sport-bike. Also: I noticed they mentioned a disel FoST? Cool. GTD competitor. I loves me some soot action.

The 1.5L is tuned to 133.3 HP per Litre......same as a Mountune 1.6L. I don't see any reliability issues at that power level. I have seen no indications of failures from the US forums nor the UK.

 

[thePete]

snip

Settle down, princess. "You" can be used in a more generic term. You stated that chasing big power is intoxicating; "The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle" (<that's a direct quote from you) and I stated that if your goal ('your' being the hypotheical person that is chasing power over the driving dynamic) is big power numbers; then you bought the wrong car. Again, the hypothetical "you" here is the person you stated is chasing big power over the 'total feel of the vehicle'. This is a hot-hatch, it's meant to be a darty backroad weapon, not a straightline speed machine.

Be careful when you take broad statements, that you instigated, straight to the bag. I couldn't care less about how you feel about the car, and your dick swinging doesn't impress me. No one said the FiST isn't for you. I said that if you're a person who is only chasing big power, then a 1.6L pocket car is not the right platform to start from.

 

[thePete]

The 1.5L is tuned to 133.3 HP per Litre......same as a Mountune 1.6L. I don't see any reliability issues at that power level. I have seen no indications of failures from the US forums nor the UK.

Yeah, I suppose when you math it out the specific output isn't too crazy, and they're slinging a lot of hypothetical numbers around up there. And again, they engineer it with a pretty decent service factor for warranty sake, so I'm sure it's plenty skookum.

 

[Hijinx]

Interesting, but seriously doubtful. One thing is certain, and that being the next FoST will have more then 252hp. I could see 200hp out of the 1.5 and plausible fit for the FiST, but not the FoST.

I love how the article states the specific output is possible through technology already in use lol. It would be pretty laggy for one, and I doubt will be able to achieve emissions, at least not at that output level. I think the 2.0 is here to stay but I do hope they update it. It is really an economy engine in a sporty vehicle and has a bunch of limitations.

The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle. The 1.6 does an amazing job with Hybrid's and only finding the limit of fuel after adding 70% power which is very respectable. If the 1.5 can do the same and at least give customers a chance to crank things up with out internals or aux fuel and maintaining reliability, can't complain.

Take that reasonable outlook on the 80% of customer who do some sort of modding to their vehicle and you would essentially be handing them a not so happy platform to tinker with in terms of power adding with a 280hp 1.5L. Well the problem is that there is always room to play, engines are not strung out from the factory and that is due to reliability. So you would have a very well built and stout 1.5 able to handle 280hp and meet Ford requirements but that's in durability and would fail in terms of drivability when it comes to Ford's view of how an ecoboost should respond (no lag). You could incorporate things like twincharging but that wouldn't happen because ST, not RS. You could also argue well Hybrids meet this and then some on the 1.6, but you can't add another 80lbft or 100lbft in the FoST with just a tune and that goes back to durability and being in the happy zone, not strung out to point like people do when modding. This is also why TQ is a better indication of an engines limits over power. Power is a wall that can be countered with revs, TQ is limited by physics and combustion properties in line with heat management, knock knock, who's there? Detonation! TQ is effected greatly by displacement, where power is more about heat and flow then being able to maintain that TQ through out the rev range (multiplying displacement and simultaneously using mechanical advantage).

Of note: By theory, a tuned stock turbo Fist is in the 250hp range. For a 1.5l, a better flowing stock frame turbo, slightly higher compression, better fuel delivery... It would see crank 280hp easy on overboost. It's ~240whp... That's a cake walk. Have you seen the original Cyborg?

 

[Hijinx]

They're not going to release it with 400whp, because that's silly in a 2800lb, FWD hatch. They also are not going to build it capable of handling 3x the power it comes with for 100,000mi, because that would be silly also. Why would they waste that much money over-engineering their car just so you can put a huge turbo on it and ruin the balance of a car that they spent thousands of engineering hours on?.

If I have 400whp and I'm driving 60mph, how long does it take me to stop?

 

[thePete]

If I have 400whp and I'm driving 60mph, how long does it take me to stop?

Hi troll, braking distance has nothing to do with horsepower. But horsepower has a lot to do with attainable speeds, and chassis stability has a lot to do with the reasonable limit of power that a large corporation is going to sell a car with to the general public. It's not really hard to figure out.

 

[Crooked Letta]

Settle down, princess. "You" can be used in a more generic term. You stated that chasing big power is intoxicating; "The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle" (<that's a direct quote from you) and I stated that if your goal ('your' being the hypotheical person that is chasing power over the driving dynamic) is big power numbers; then you bought the wrong car. Again, the hypothetical "you" here is the person you stated is chasing big power over the 'total feel of the vehicle'. This is a hot-hatch, it's meant to be a darty backroad weapon, not a straightline speed machine.

Be careful when you take broad statements, that you instigated, straight to the bag. I couldn't care less about how you feel about the car, and your dick swinging doesn't impress me. No one said the FiST isn't for you. I said that if you're a person who is only chasing big power, then a 1.6L pocket car is not the right platform to start from.

Understood, and a broken rule of semantics right there in more ways then one Maybe try a like instead of quoting with a sarcastic apology (I'm sorry) and "you" in the same sentence and reiterating what I stated. This is where my confusion came from.

On the topic, yes I agree of course and honestly this goes up the food chain a bit. One could argue the same with the RS. I wouldn't totally scold any one who has the ideology of power being the end goal, more so sympathies that they can't see what makes these vehicles truly special. There was a reason Ford chose the AWD system they did for the RS, and there is a reason why you turn the steering wheel on a FiST with very precise movements.

There are flaws with every vehicle and why the aftermarket steps up for solutions. I can say coming from a Balt SS to my FoST I was disappointed with the effort needed to reach my goal in terms of overall packaging and being track capable. It wasn't worth it honestly. Too much work and money. This does create a reputation good or bad and manufactures do care about this.

The 1.5 with 200hp for the FiST makes sense The 1.5 with 280hp for the Focus does not and I don't see it happening.

 

[jmrtsus]

Of note: By theory, a tuned stock turbo Fist is in the 250hp range. For a 1.5l, a better flowing stock frame turbo, slightly higher compression, better fuel delivery... It would see crank 280hp easy on overboost. It's ~240whp... That's a cake walk. Have you seen the original Cyborg?

Where did you find the 80% modder numbers?

 

[Hijinx]

Hi troll, braking distance has nothing to do with horsepower. But horsepower has a lot to do with attainable speeds, and chassis stability has a lot to do with the reasonable limit of power that a large corporation is going to sell a car with to the general public. It's not really hard to figure out.

I've ran my car to 145mph in a 1/2 mile...from a dig. Yes, that was straight line, but the chassis was solid during acceleration and solid during braking. Granted, I have chassis upgrades.

Now that we've established horsepower has nothing do with braking distance, here's another troll question: What am I supposed to do with my foot between WOT and braking?

I agree that Ford isn't going to put together a Fiesta chassis to handle 1000hp... What I disagree with is the underlying sentiment because our chassis and the FoST can handle 280 crank easy WITHOUT any upgrades...non sequitur.

 

[Crooked Letta]

Of note: By theory, a tuned stock turbo Fist is in the 250hp range. For a 1.5l, a better flowing stock frame turbo, slightly higher compression, better fuel delivery... It would see crank 280hp easy on overboost. It's ~240whp... That's a cake walk. Have you seen the original Cyborg?

Yes, but emissions. that is the killer and C02 would be pretty high. I see it being plausible but unlikely due to factory restrictions (longevity,emisions). This is where my TQ statement came into play, as both a tuned FiST and Hybrid are pretty close matches in TQ. The power coming from higher flow and extending that TQ curve which is what you truly want in a well matched turbo.

It's easy for us to say seeing as we know how well the 1.6 is and what hybrids have done for us. From the engineering side where pennies matter and the government regulations dictate overall output, it is a stretch for an engine like this to be produced and put into a ST model. A fiesta RS, that I can see.

 

[Hijinx]

Yes, but emissions. that is the killer and C02 would be pretty high. I see it being plausible but unlikely due to factory restrictions (longevity,emisions). This is where my TQ statement came into play, as both a tuned FiST and Hybrid are pretty close matches in TQ. The power coming from higher flow and extending that TQ curve which is what you truly want in a well matched turbo.

It's easy for us to say seeing as we know how well the 1.6 is and what hybrids have done for us. From the engineering side where pennies matter and the government regulations dictate overall output, it is a stretch for an engine like this to be produced and put into a ST model. A fiesta RS, that I can see.

Like you said earlier, if they build the 1.5L anything like the 1.6L (or better) the longevity will be there. As far as emissions and efficiency goes, that will be in the calibration...because an efficient car happens to be powerful and clean. But, then again, can they do it and keep the AFRs famously rich as automakers do?

In a perfect world, Ford can do it with current technology. The real question is whether they will or not. To be or not to be...

On the same note, I really hope we're getting the 1.5L FiST. It'll be like a starting a new book in a series.

 

[Hijinx]

Where did you find the 80% modder numbers?

What 80%?

 

[Crooked Letta]

Like you said earlier, if they build the 1.5L anything like the 1.6L (or better) the longevity will be there. As far as emissions and efficiency goes, that will be in the calibration...because an efficient car happens to be powerful and clean. But, then again, can they do it and keep the AFRs famously rich as automakers do?

In a perfect world, Ford can do it with current technology. The real question is whether they will or not. To be or not to be...

On the same note, I really hope we're getting the 1.5L FiST. It'll be like a starting a new book in a series.

Agree with part of the emisions but Co2 is directly related to efficiency and the more efficient, the more the engine puts out.

I do think this is plausible, just maybe not in todays world and restricting emissions concerns. I do think durability wise it can be done with out much effort while meeting Ford's requirements, their requirements are border line crazy though.

Let me put it this way, when any automaker especially Ford decides to add a bump in power to an engine like the RS, or the Boss is an amazing example, they take engineering to another step. A 30hp bump to them mean hard parts are being changed. look at what was done to those two vehicles do get a modest bump over their lesser counterparts.

 

[jmrtsus]

What 80%?

Sorry......wrong post>>>>

 

[jmrtsus]

Interesting, but seriously doubtful. One thing is certain, and that being the next FoST will have more then 252hp. I could see 200hp out of the 1.5 and plausible fit for the FiST, but not the FoST.

I love how the article states the specific output is possible through technology already in use lol. It would be pretty laggy for one, and I doubt will be able to achieve emissions, at least not at that output level. I think the 2.0 is here to stay but I do hope they update it. It is really an economy engine in a sporty vehicle and has a bunch of limitations.

The 1.5 in the FiST, I honestly don't care as long as it's as or more durable then the current 1.6. You get to a point where power becomes an obsession that over-masks the total feel of the vehicle. The 1.6 does an amazing job with Hybrid's and only finding the limit of fuel after adding 70% power which is very respectable. If the 1.5 can do the same and at least give customers a chance to crank things up with out internals or aux fuel and maintaining reliability, can't complain.

Take that reasonable outlook on the 80% of customer who do some sort of modding to their vehicle and you would essentially be handing them a not so happy platform to tinker with in terms of power adding with a 280hp 1.5L. Well the problem is that there is always room to play, engines are not strung out from the factory and that is due to reliability. So you would have a very well built and stout 1.5 able to handle 280hp and meet Ford requirements but that's in durability and would fail in terms of drivability when it comes to Ford's view of how an ecoboost should respond (no lag). You could incorporate things like twincharging but that wouldn't happen because ST, not RS. You could also argue well Hybrids meet this and then some on the 1.6, but you can't add another 80lbft or 100lbft in the FoST with just a tune and that goes back to durability and being in the happy zone, not strung out to point like people do when modding. This is also why TQ is a better indication of an engines limits over power. Power is a wall that can be countered with revs, TQ is limited by physics and combustion properties in line with heat management, knock knock, who's there? Detonation! TQ is effected greatly by displacement, where power is more about heat and flow then being able to maintain that TQ through out the rev range (multiplying displacement and simultaneously using mechanical advantage).

I am confused, 80% of what customers mod their cars?