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Thoughts: Worn Suspension / Soft Steering

hjr

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#1
Hello All,

2014 FiSt - 74000km (~46000m) - Original shocks, strut tops, bushings, steering components.

My issue is what i'd call soft steering. The turn in is on of the best things of these cars, but i'm getting a bit of delay/softness on initial turn in. Once it loads up and bites the grip is there. I recently replaced rubber with michelin AS3+ which may be a bit softer than original bridgestones, but this isn't a minor softness. The car turns and seems to have a bit extra body roll before and takes longer to load up before bite. Doesn't feel connected.

I'm assuming struts shocks. It hasn't been abused but its not crazy they would be going at current mileage. I've got paranoia about steering assist programming (read somewhere this is possible). I also feel like there is a tiny click/clunk when parked & moving steering side to side (tie rods?). I gave the suspension a good going over last time it was on the hoist and couldn't spot the issue.

Any thoughts out there? Any similar experience now that these cars are getting up there in use? How does the suspension / steering wear?
 


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Cincinnati
#2
Hello All,

2014 FiSt - 74000km (~46000m) - Original shocks, strut tops, bushings, steering components.

My issue is what i'd call soft steering. The turn in is on of the best things of these cars, but i'm getting a bit of delay/softness on initial turn in. Once it loads up and bites the grip is there. I recently replaced rubber with michelin AS3+ which may be a bit softer than original bridgestones, but this isn't a minor softness. The car turns and seems to have a bit extra body roll before and takes longer to load up before bite. Doesn't feel connected.

I'm assuming struts shocks. It hasn't been abused but its not crazy they would be going at current mileage. I've got paranoia about steering assist programming (read somewhere this is possible). I also feel like there is a tiny click/clunk when parked & moving steering side to side (tie rods?). I gave the suspension a good going over last time it was on the hoist and couldn't spot the issue.

Any thoughts out there? Any similar experience now that these cars are getting up there in use? How does the suspension / steering wear?
My 2 cents. I have the same issue at 46,8xxx miles on the clock. OEM suspension seems to wear out right around 35k miles. This seems to be an issue with the FoST as well. One of my friends replaced everything at 36k on his 2013 due to excessive body roll and dive/lift under braking/acceleration.

I've considered replacing with another OEM setup but if they fade again after 35k miles, well I'm sorry but for the price, I'd rather go for a Bilstein B6/8 setup with Swift or someone else's springs or, on the cheap, a Godspeed coilover setup since I don't track my car and don't need adjustability of that sort. Consider looking through the suspension threads as a solid set of BC coils or an ST setup might suit you better given their pricing.

The steering will be noticeable due to the looseness of the suspension. I have checked mine over every 5k miles when I'm on the lift for a LOF at my shop (Firestone) and I have found no loose tie rods, ball joints, worn control arm bushings, no loose link pins, or bearing issues. This leads me to believe it is strictly down to damping as I am still running factory RE050 tires.

FYI TO ALL: WE (BRIDGESTONE/FIRESTONE) ARE ABOUT TO RELEASE THE FIREHAWK INDY 500 IN FACTORY 205/40R17 84W IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH RE050'S!!! FIRST 2 SHIPMENTS ARE BEING BUILT BUT ARE SPOKEN FOR BY UNKNOWN ENTITIES AND I CANNOT GET ANYMORE INFO NO MATTER HOW HARD I PRESS MY SOURCES.

Spend some time looking and reading but I strongly believe the Bilstein setup with B6/8 struts will be best if daily driven like mine with very hard, sprited driving as the norm with no track use as of yet. Beefy, well damped struts with a strong name behind them and if you look at the Bilstein threads, I think the consensus is it's a winning setup for similar money to Godspeeds, Konis, and all other budget priced systems with limited to no adjustability. Hope you find a good set up for you needs, my wife still thinks "it's fine, no you don't need to replace anything...ugh."
 


Capri to ST

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#3
My 2 cents. I have the same issue at 46,8xxx miles on the clock. OEM suspension seems to wear out right around 35k miles. This seems to be an issue with the FoST as well. One of my friends replaced everything at 36k on his 2013 due to excessive body roll and dive/lift under braking/acceleration.

I've considered replacing with another OEM setup but if they fade again after 35k miles, well I'm sorry but for the price, I'd rather go for a Bilstein B6/8 setup with Swift or someone else's springs or, on the cheap, a Godspeed coilover setup since I don't track my car and don't need adjustability of that sort. Consider looking through the suspension threads as a solid set of BC coils or an ST setup might suit you better given their pricing.

The steering will be noticeable due to the looseness of the suspension. I have checked mine over every 5k miles when I'm on the lift for a LOF at my shop (Firestone) and I have found no loose tie rods, ball joints, worn control arm bushings, no loose link pins, or bearing issues. This leads me to believe it is strictly down to damping as I am still running factory RE050 tires.

FYI TO ALL: WE (BRIDGESTONE/FIRESTONE) ARE ABOUT TO RELEASE THE FIREHAWK INDY 500 IN FACTORY 205/40R17 84W IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH RE050'S!!! FIRST 2 SHIPMENTS ARE BEING BUILT BUT ARE SPOKEN FOR BY UNKNOWN ENTITIES AND I CANNOT GET ANYMORE INFO NO MATTER HOW HARD I PRESS MY SOURCES.

Spend some time looking and reading but I strongly believe the Bilstein setup with B6/8 struts will be best if daily driven like mine with very hard, sprited driving as the norm with no track use as of yet. Beefy, well damped struts with a strong name behind them and if you look at the Bilstein threads, I think the consensus is it's a winning setup for similar money to Godspeeds, Konis, and all other budget priced systems with limited to no adjustability. Hope you find a good set up for you needs, my wife still thinks "it's fine, no you don't need to replace anything...ugh."
That's good news about the Firehawk Indy 500 in oem 205/40-17. Will it be part of the regular line or is this just a limited release?
And do you know yet how they are similar to/ different from the stock Potenza RE050A? Thanks, this is helpful info to hopefully have another good tire choice in the oem size.
 


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#4
That's good news about the Firehawk Indy 500 in oem 205/40-17. Will it be part of the regular line or is this just a limited release?
And do you know yet how they are similar to/ different from the stock Potenza RE050A? Thanks, this is helpful info to hopefully have another good tire choice in the oem size.
No info yet. Like I said, I have an article number that the warehouse people in Tennessee gave me that doesn't show up when you go to a store and have them search what's available in the stock size. The only way I can find the tires to price them out is by using said number and then they show up on our computers.

If the other threads are anything to go by, they will be more extreme, leaning toward the likes of the RE71R with good wet traction to boot given the Pulse technology used in the grooves to pump water from beneath the tire. Should be as stiff if not stiffer. Read more on the tire threads for real world reviews. Pricing will be a steal though compared to the $201/tire that the RE050 is being sold for. Remember, the Indy 500 is not what it seems (I'll let you do some research on that).

Anyway I hadn't intended on hijacking [MENTION=8166]hjr[/MENTION]'s thread. I'll post more info in the proper tire threads. Let's keep this about the original topic!
 


KKaWing

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#5
Indy 500 = RE003. Latest "rave" would be on Mighty Car Mods, specifically Moog's WRX uses it in their WRX vs EVO video. Now we know why they cut the pretty decent RE760 last year :p

Slightly on topic, the B6's with stock springs... they don't have the mega compression damping like the stock shocks so the "sharp" steering feel is muted a bit. That said, the car seems to want to rotate more than with the stock shocks. It changes direction just as, if not more willingly than stock. I even scare myself in the rain on on-ramps accelerating through the cloverleaf. I'm sure the "sport mode rear vectoring" doesn't help but in conjunction with the B6's, the car is so neutral rather than slightly understeering stock shocks it made me go [ohcrap] the first time.
 


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#6
Indy 500 = RE003. Latest "rave" would be on Mighty Car Mods, specifically Moog's WRX uses it in their WRX vs EVO video. Now we know why they cut the pretty decent RE760 last year :p

Slightly on topic, the B6's with stock springs... they don't have the mega compression damping like the stock shocks so the "sharp" steering feel is muted a bit. That said, the car seems to want to rotate more than with the stock shocks. It changes direction just as, if not more willingly than stock. I even scare myself in the rain on on-ramps accelerating through the cloverleaf. I'm sure the "sport mode rear vectoring" doesn't help but in conjunction with the B6's, the car is so neutral rather than slightly understeering stock shocks it made me go [ohcrap] the first time.
MCM rules the world!
 


OP
H

hjr

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Thread Starter #7
My 2 cents. I have the same issue at 46,8xxx miles on the clock. OEM suspension seems to wear out right around 35k miles. This seems to be an issue with the FoST as well. One of my friends replaced everything at 36k on his 2013 due to excessive body roll and dive/lift under braking/acceleration.

I've considered replacing with another OEM setup but if they fade again after 35k miles, well I'm sorry but for the price, I'd rather go for a Bilstein B6/8 setup with Swift or someone else's springs or, on the cheap, a Godspeed coilover setup since I don't track my car and don't need adjustability of that sort. Consider looking through the suspension threads as a solid set of BC coils or an ST setup might suit you better given their pricing.

The steering will be noticeable due to the looseness of the suspension. I have checked mine over every 5k miles when I'm on the lift for a LOF at my shop (Firestone) and I have found no loose tie rods, ball joints, worn control arm bushings, no loose link pins, or bearing issues. This leads me to believe it is strictly down to damping as I am still running factory RE050 tires.

FYI TO ALL: WE (BRIDGESTONE/FIRESTONE) ARE ABOUT TO RELEASE THE FIREHAWK INDY 500 IN FACTORY 205/40R17 84W IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH RE050'S!!! FIRST 2 SHIPMENTS ARE BEING BUILT BUT ARE SPOKEN FOR BY UNKNOWN ENTITIES AND I CANNOT GET ANYMORE INFO NO MATTER HOW HARD I PRESS MY SOURCES.

Spend some time looking and reading but I strongly believe the Bilstein setup with B6/8 struts will be best if daily driven like mine with very hard, sprited driving as the norm with no track use as of yet. Beefy, well damped struts with a strong name behind them and if you look at the Bilstein threads, I think the consensus is it's a winning setup for similar money to Godspeeds, Konis, and all other budget priced systems with limited to no adjustability. Hope you find a good set up for you needs, my wife still thinks "it's fine, no you don't need to replace anything...ugh."
Thanks for the info. My spouse is also doesn't get the difference. It drives me crazy though. I'm going to pull the trigger on new suspension and can update once done.
 


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#8
Thanks for the info. My spouse is also doesn't get the difference. It drives me crazy though. I'm going to pull the trigger on new suspension and can update once done.
I'll be looking forward to it. Also have you noticed the with the gradual loosening of the suspension a certain play in the steering wheel. When the car was new, mine was tight as a drum. Some is probably down to steering linkage and bushings but I've really noticed I have to make very minor corrections all the time at highway speeds that weren't necessary before. Thoughts?
 


OP
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hjr

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Thread Starter #9
I'll be looking forward to it. Also have you noticed the with the gradual loosening of the suspension a certain play in the steering wheel. When the car was new, mine was tight as a drum. Some is probably down to steering linkage and bushings but I've really noticed I have to make very minor corrections all the time at highway speeds that weren't necessary before. Thoughts?
I have noticed a somewhat skittish car at highway speeds. It always had a certain tendency to follow groves in the road - and this may be the same thing, but with a dead zone where the steering is loose. I'm not sure. It can feel a little 'icy'.
 


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#10
I have noticed a somewhat skittish car at highway speeds. It always had a certain tendency to follow groves in the road - and this may be the same thing, but with a dead zone where the steering is loose. I'm not sure. It can feel a little 'icy'.
The tramlining on the road is normal. My car has done that from day 1, and many cars with low profile tires will do this. However, the "deadzone" in the steering is not normal. The tight steering is one of the defining aspects of the car for me, and at highway speeds, I find I barely have to put pressure on the steering wheel to get it to move left or right in the lane. It does sound like there could be something going on with the bushings or steering linkage in your case. May want to get it looked at.
 


Capri to ST

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#11
The tramlining on the road is normal. My car has done that from day 1, and many cars with low profile tires will do this. However, the "deadzone" in the steering is not normal. The tight steering is one of the defining aspects of the car for me, and at highway speeds, I find I barely have to put pressure on the steering wheel to get it to move left or right in the lane. It does sound like there could be something going on with the bushings or steering linkage in your case. May want to get it looked at.
+1- My car is new, less than 4K miles on it,so provides a good control to check your older one against. As [MENTION=2876]Joker328[/MENTION] said, mine has no deadzone or play at highway speeds or any other speed. When you turn the wheel, it is instantly responsive. I have not noticed much tramlining, but do agree that it's often present with low profile tires. Maybe the roads are smoother here.
 


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#12
Absolutely I know about tramlining as here in Cincinnati, I75 and I71 are both total disasters and rutted to hell. What i am talking about is not in any way a tramlining concern. When my car was new up until about 20K miles, it was razor sharp as others have confirmed. I will try to stop into my local ford dealer to test a new one out as a refresher.

What I am talking about is on a smooth section of newly paved highway or even slightly rough, the steering feels like it has slightly more inertness just around straight ahead position and requires very, very minute corrections as the car seems to wander around a little more than it used to. I have checked all bushings, ball joints, suspension hardware, even down to sway bar links to see if there any fade or movement and have found nothing out of sorts. Leads me to believe it's somewhere between steering bushings or linkage and worn suspension. I've been having to brace far more often when cornering than i used to (non-Recaro seats) and the car leans soooooo much more than it used to. Just clicked 47,000 miles yesterday evening FYI. The only other thing I can even think of that could add to my issue is the fact that my OEM bridgestones are slightly worn unevenly from cornering speed bias and could be affecting me. They've been rotated, balanced and aligned EVERY 5K miles since I work at Firestone and have everything free yet still they hop at 80 mph so I figure because I take right hand turns way harder than lefts, it could only be uneven wear across the tires.

Either way, the slop is the issue, not the feel from the tires. I'm just trying to figure out if that is something others are feeling around this same mileage and if we can come to some possible consensus on what it might be. Somehow this all ties back into the OP...i think lol
 


Capri to ST

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#13
The OP mentioned steering assist programming. That reminded me that I had seen that Ford has some kind of compensation, called pull drift, built into its EPAS systems. I have seen a reference to that being part of our cars' systems, but I can't find it. If that got out of whack, that could be another explanation for what you're feeling, vagueness or slop. I found a general description of the feature by Motor Trend-

Ford has released details on another advantage of its EPS system ā€“ a software-based pull-drift compensation program that helps keep a vehicle equipped with EPS on track when faced with crosswinds or an uneven driving surface. The pull-drift compensation program operates via sensors that constantly measure wheel torque applied by the driver to maintain direction. When the program detects extra effort being used, the electric motor adds torque in the proper direction to prevent the driver from having to make corrections to keep the car on course. The compensation program is said to be virtually undetectable by the driver when in operation, and the program automatically resets itself to compensate for changing road conditions or curving roads.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/ford...offers-automatic-pulldrift-compensation-4117/

Here's another reference to it-
Ford describes EPAS with pull-drift as a ā€œsophisticated sensor system that constantly measures the driverā€™s steering torque, adapts to changing road conditions and helps compensate for slight steering changes.ā€
http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/electronic-power-steering/ FORD EPAS WITH PULL DRIFT COMPENSATION.jpg
 


GAbOS

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#15
The tramlining on the road is normal. My car has done that from day 1, and many cars with low profile tires will do this. However, the "deadzone" in the steering is not normal. The tight steering is one of the defining aspects of the car for me, and at highway speeds, I find I barely have to put pressure on the steering wheel to get it to move left or right in the lane. It does sound like there could be something going on with the bushings or steering linkage in your case. May want to get it looked at.
Agree 100% Large attributes to 'tramlining' or what we used to call 'tracking' can be running the same tire size front to rear, and short wheels bases which all of us do. This feeling can be adjusted with toe adjustments front and rear; one end or the other or both depending on where you are and where you want to be.

Also, the car should have sharp steering, even at speed. I do.
 


OP
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hjr

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Thread Starter #16
Absolutely I know about tramlining as here in Cincinnati, I75 and I71 are both total disasters and rutted to hell. What i am talking about is not in any way a tramlining concern. When my car was new up until about 20K miles, it was razor sharp as others have confirmed. I will try to stop into my local ford dealer to test a new one out as a refresher.

What I am talking about is on a smooth section of newly paved highway or even slightly rough, the steering feels like it has slightly more inertness just around straight ahead position and requires very, very minute corrections as the car seems to wander around a little more than it used to. I have checked all bushings, ball joints, suspension hardware, even down to sway bar links to see if there any fade or movement and have found nothing out of sorts. Leads me to believe it's somewhere between steering bushings or linkage and worn suspension. I've been having to brace far more often when cornering than i used to (non-Recaro seats) and the car leans soooooo much more than it used to. Just clicked 47,000 miles yesterday evening FYI. The only other thing I can even think of that could add to my issue is the fact that my OEM bridgestones are slightly worn unevenly from cornering speed bias and could be affecting me. They've been rotated, balanced and aligned EVERY 5K miles since I work at Firestone and have everything free yet still they hop at 80 mph so I figure because I take right hand turns way harder than lefts, it could only be uneven wear across the tires.

Either way, the slop is the issue, not the feel from the tires. I'm just trying to figure out if that is something others are feeling around this same mileage and if we can come to some possible consensus on what it might be. Somehow this all ties back into the OP...i think lol
This sound like what I'm getting as well. The tracking/tramlining is still there in grooved roads, but the input is delayed to the steering wheel. It can feel 'icy' when the car is moving but movement isnt directly felt through the steering.

On heavy steering input the car leans/rolls more and I fell like I'm bracing more (with Recaro's).

Again, I've had it on hoist and can't find anything loose. Seems to be general looseness / softness in what was a very very precise car.
 


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#17
Does it feel like it takes more steering effort in general or at low speed? Any chance there is something up with the electric steering?
 


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#18
This sound like what I'm getting as well. The tracking/tramlining is still there in grooved roads, but the input is delayed to the steering wheel. It can feel 'icy' when the car is moving but movement isnt directly felt through the steering.

On heavy steering input the car leans/rolls more and I fell like I'm bracing more (with Recaro's).

Again, I've had it on hoist and can't find anything loose. Seems to be general looseness / softness in what was a very very precise car.
The "icy" feeling you described I feel as well, but felt it with 1500 miles on the car, for what it's worth. Does your steering wheel's "center" position change as well? Something like it's a bit crooked but then later you notice it's crooked but in the other direction, or suddenly it's straight?

Picture the toe changing depending on forces on the suspension. Of course this could be attributed to worn bushings, but from what I've been reading it can also be caused by a misalignment of the subframe, after an alignment is performed. Maybe that's something to explore if you haven't. One other related thing I've noticed is that after spirited driving, aka giving the steering and suspension a workout, the stability control (not traction control) will flip out a bit when going straight, as if it thinks the car should be going in a different direction than it is. I've experienced this going straight on smooth pavement engine braking.

I've been meaning to call the shop I got the alignment done at to see if they can figure it out (it's a race shop). Seems odd that a car with such simple suspension and sold in such huge numbers globally would be tricky to align though...
 


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#19
Sitting at around 38,800 miles on mine and I wonder about the suspension too. It maaaybe sees an autocross a year right now, and always a weekend at VIR. Beyond that - DD and roadtrips.
 




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