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Essential Mods

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#1
Hi Guys,

New owner here. Actually, I don't even have the car yet! Hopefully I'll pick it up by Friday.

My new FiST will be my DD, but I promise you it will end up at the track a few times a year. I want to enhance track performance without degrading street manners too much. I'm thinking Bilstein B8, and Eiback pro-kit springs. I already have a line on some 16" Team Dynamic 1.2s.

Anybody think I should stick to the OE springs? From what I've read the balance is great, and I don't want to screw it up.

How about brakes? I was going to stick to the OE pads and rotors, but I'd like to hear what others are using on the track. Are pad changes easy?

Let me know what you think.
 


codestp202

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#2
You're going to need high temp brake fluid. I'm using EBC yellowstuff on the track. I don't think the factory pads are up to the task. Pads are easy. Get a rear motor mount and an accessport for a stage 1 tune at least. If you're going to track pretty regularly, a new radiator is a must.
 


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Milwaukee
#3
My advice, buy it and just track it(with flushing the brake fluid for better stuff). Figure out what needs to be upgraded based on your experiences.

I tracked my car 100% bone stock(down to pads, tires, and suspension). It was a blast. I could see where some people would want to spend money to "fix" the car, but every person is going to drive the car differently, and need different things to make it work for them on track.
I can see changing brake pads, and tires, but the car is very capable in stock form. Figure out what YOU want to do with the car, and don't let people say you NEED to do this or that to the car in order to make it just work. I call BS on that.
 


OP
A
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Thread Starter #4
_shift: Thanks!

This is great advice. It's nice to know the car has no "show-stopper" flaws in stock form. I owned a 2013 BRZ which I tracked for a year before making changes, and that worked out great. As you suggest, I'll swap the brake fluid. Honestly, I find Ford OE brake pads pretty good. There not Carbotech XP12s, but they also make no noise! This is my DD, so I'll keep it queit as long as I can.
 


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Philadelphia
#5
My advice, buy it and just track it(with flushing the brake fluid for better stuff). Figure out what needs to be upgraded based on your experiences.

I tracked my car 100% bone stock(down to pads, tires, and suspension). It was a blast. I could see where some people would want to spend money to "fix" the car, but every person is going to drive the car differently, and need different things to make it work for them on track.
I can see changing brake pads, and tires, but the car is very capable in stock form. Figure out what YOU want to do with the car, and don't let people say you NEED to do this or that to the car in order to make it just work. I call BS on that.
1000000x this - I did the exact same thing that shift did. I figured out I would need better pads and cooling mods for both brakes and engine and that is where I'm at right now. I actually really like the stock suspension on track - not too stiff but not too firm and you can really hit curbs without upsetting the balance too much. But shift is right, track it as it is once (high temp brake fluid withstanding) and see what YOU want to improve in the car.
 


codestp202

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#6
The car is not capable of cooling itself for a 20 minute session in stock form, that is a fact. Unless you are not pushing the car hard at all.

I did a hard drive in the mountains the other day, and my buddy had a stock ST, we had to stop 5 or 6 times throughout the drive because he coolant was maxed, his oil light came on, and his brake pads were smoking.
I'm simply saying the "essential mods" for a car that is going to be tracked is at least pads, fluid, and a radiator.
 


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#7
The car is not capable of cooling itself for a 20 minute session in stock form, that is a fact. Unless you are not pushing the car hard at all.

I did a hard drive in the mountains the other day, and my buddy had a stock ST, we had to stop 5 or 6 times throughout the drive because he coolant was maxed, his oil light came on, and his brake pads were smoking.
I'm simply saying the "essential mods" for a car that is going to be tracked is at least pads, fluid, and a radiator.
I've actually have had great luck with just blasting the heat and not going 100% in the straights on track. Blasting the heat greatly helps the car cool down. I agree in that the car needs cooling mods for full on track driving. But first time out I still think just brake fluid and ESC off is the way to go. However, it is really easy to get to the point were a rad/oil cooler is needed. The stock pads actually hold up surprisingly well on track, however I blew through the compound and at $150 a pop, they are not economical to run on track nor the best compound for the job. I'm on my second set of Hawk DTC-30 after annihilating a set of Yellowstuffs and they are working really well in conjunction with brake cooling. And at $130 a pop, they are a great bang for your buck track pad wise (I got 5 track days out of my last set + street driving).
 


M-Sport fan

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#8
^^^ARE the DTC-30s 'streetable', even in our winter weather, and on a 'first hit' at a stop sign/light basis?? [dunno]
 


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#9
^^^ARE the DTC-30s 'streetable', even in our winter weather, and on a 'first hit' at a stop sign/light basis?? [dunno]
Once properly bed in (I always do it on track to allow them to get nice and hot) the DTC-30 are streetable. They do come with a bit of noise (not too bad when the windows are up) but they have good (not optimal) stopping power on the first stop. After a few stops they reeeeeealy come on and bite hard, but cold they are certainly effective.

I do plan on switching back to the stock pad over the winter however as I don't think the aggressive nature of the DTC-30's will lend well to winter temps. All in all, for a track pad (and it is a track pad) they are pretty livable on the street.
 


codestp202

Active member
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#10
I've actually have had great luck with just blasting the heat and not going 100% in the straights on track. Blasting the heat greatly helps the car cool down. I agree in that the car needs cooling mods for full on track driving. But first time out I still think just brake fluid and ESC off is the way to go. However, it is really easy to get to the point were a rad/oil cooler is needed. The stock pads actually hold up surprisingly well on track, however I blew through the compound and at $150 a pop, they are not economical to run on track nor the best compound for the job. I'm on my second set of Hawk DTC-30 after annihilating a set of Yellowstuffs and they are working really well in conjunction with brake cooling. And at $130 a pop, they are a great bang for your buck track pad wise (I got 5 track days out of my last set + street driving).
Yeah, I'm sure the stock setup can get you through a slow track day taking it easy, but for someone to really enjoy it, it will overheat. I think we all agree on that.
The yellowstuffs held up really well in conjunction with boomba coolers, stainless lines, motul 600, and stock rotors. The oil cooler treated me well for my first track day, but the radiator was necesarry to do a full 20 minute session. I was doing 6 hotlaps at buttonwillow in 80 degree heat before I had to take a cool down lap. I'll be at Thunderhill in July in 95 degree heat so that's why I opted for the radiator on top of oil cooler.
 


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#11
Yeah, I'm sure the stock setup can get you through a slow track day taking it easy, but for someone to really enjoy it, it will overheat. I think we all agree on that.
The yellowstuffs held up really well in conjunction with boomba coolers, stainless lines, motul 600, and stock rotors. The oil cooler treated me well for my first track day, but the radiator was necesarry to do a full 20 minute session. I was doing 6 hotlaps at buttonwillow in 80 degree heat before I had to take a cool down lap. I'll be at Thunderhill in July in 95 degree heat so that's why I opted for the radiator on top of oil cooler.
Interesting, my yellowstuffs where toasted by the end of a 2 day track session early in the season (~60 degree weather) with cooling! I was at The Glen last week and my car was suffering from some serious overheating issues, even with the heat on so I agree with the oil cooler/rad combo being optimal (hence why I have both Mishi Rad & oil cooler on order!).
 


codestp202

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#12
Interesting, my yellowstuffs where toasted by the end of a 2 day track session early in the season (~60 degree weather) with cooling! I was at The Glen last week and my car was suffering from some serious overheating issues, even with the heat on so I agree with the oil cooler/rad combo being optimal (hence why I have both Mishi Rad & oil cooler on order!).
Very interesting on the yellowstuff. I have a trackday and a lot of hard mountain driving and plenty of meat left. They should last through this next track day and maybe one more.
 


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#13
I've never had good luck with EBC stuff, but YMMV. I ran my car 100% bone stock at Road America(a.k.a. the 4-mile dyno) for a full 25 minute session without any overheating issues in 85'ish degree ambient temps. Given I may have a few miles up there prior(I have been instructing there for almost a decade, along with other tracks in the midwest), so I may know secrets to keeping a car happy for a full session, going fast, but keeping it safe. Ran 3:05's consistently(with more brake pad, and some suspension tweaks, i.e. alignment and shock adjustment, I could see 2:55's being a thing) without any hiccups.

My next experiment will be with some G-Loc pads at the HPDE I'll be running in October. That and the CM-Buildz brake duct shields....
 


codestp202

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#14
I've never had good luck with EBC stuff, but YMMV. I ran my car 100% bone stock at Road America(a.k.a. the 4-mile dyno) for a full 25 minute session without any overheating issues in 85'ish degree ambient temps. Given I may have a few miles up there prior(I have been instructing there for almost a decade, along with other tracks in the midwest), so I may know secrets to keeping a car happy for a full session, going fast, but keeping it safe. Ran 3:05's consistently(with more brake pad, and some suspension tweaks, i.e. alignment and shock adjustment, I could see 2:55's being a thing) without any hiccups.

My next experiment will be with some G-Loc pads at the HPDE I'll be running in October. That and the CM-Buildz brake duct shields....
I'm stage 2+ from DHM, and was running around 2' 11" - 2' 12" at buttonwillow which is enough for the advanced group (much more available from the car). Even with oil cooler, I was hitting 245 oil and 230+ coolant. Now with the rad and the oil cooler, and I cant break 200 on the coolant, and my oil sits around 209 under heavy driving. I will have more details at the track on July 9th.
 


M-Sport fan

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#15
I've never had good luck with EBC stuff, but YMMV. I ran my car 100% bone stock at Road America(a.k.a. the 4-mile dyno) for a full 25 minute session without any overheating issues in 85'ish degree ambient temps. Given I may have a few miles up there prior(I have been instructing there for almost a decade, along with other tracks in the midwest), so I may know secrets to keeping a car happy for a full session, going fast, but keeping it safe. Ran 3:05's consistently(with more brake pad, and some suspension tweaks, i.e. alignment and shock adjustment, I could see 2:55's being a thing) without any hiccups.

My next experiment will be with some G-Loc pads at the HPDE I'll be running in October. That and the CM-Buildz brake duct shields....
Did you ever try any of the various EB rotors at all?

When the factory pads finally do wear out, I am also going with a G-Loc pad, albeit probably their autocross compound, and not one of their full-on track pads.
 


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#16
Did you ever try any of the various EB rotors at all?

When the factory pads finally do wear out, I am also going with a G-Loc pad, albeit probably their autocross compound, and not one of their full-on track pads.
The rotors weren't easily accessable to me, so I never had a chance to run them.

TBH: for you, an autocross-specific(or more agressive) pad may be overkill if you don't intend to use them for their intended purpose. I've been toying with the idea of winter pads/summer(street) pads/track pads(since i'm crazy like that). Hawk ceramics for winter(not as agressive, but still can tolerate heat from a spirited drive), Hawk 5.0's for normal use in the summer, and a set of either G-Loc r-10's or r-12's, or some DTC-60's.

On previous cars, i got used to the abuse a set of Hawk Blues(9012) would take under a 25-30 minute session at Road America(arguably one of the most brutal tracks in the US on brakes) and being able to STAND on the middle pedal on street tires at the 2 marker going into T1 at about 135 and having a consistent feel was amazing. I've heard the DTC-60's are about the same feel, but easier on rotors(I averaged 1 cracked rotor per track weekend, using quality blank rotors).
 


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#17
I'm stage 2+ from DHM, and was running around 2' 11" - 2' 12" at buttonwillow which is enough for the advanced group (much more available from the car). Even with oil cooler, I was hitting 245 oil and 230+ coolant. Now with the rad and the oil cooler, and I cant break 200 on the coolant, and my oil sits around 209 under heavy driving. I will have more details at the track on July 9th.
I'm pretty sure the tune is adding heat over a stock car there. (more horsepower is going to equal more heat). Once my car does get a tune on it, I plan on the oil cooler 1st, then seeing if the radiator is a necessity after a few hard sessions out. Congrats on the times at willow. That's one of the bucket list tracks for me(being a Midwestern kid, I'm spoiled with Road America, Mid-Ohio and Gingerman, among others.)
 


M-Sport fan

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#18
The rotors weren't easily accessable to me, so I never had a chance to run them.

TBH: for you, an autocross-specific(or more aggressive) pad may be overkill if you don't intend to use them for their intended purpose. I've been toying with the idea of winter pads/summer(street) pads/track pads (since I'm crazy like that). Hawk ceramics for winter (not as aggressive, but still can tolerate heat from a spirited drive), Hawk 5.0's for normal use in the summer, and a set of either G-Loc r-10's or r-12's, or some DTC-60's.
NOT "crazy" AT ALL! (Just some extra bother.)

I plan on using the Motul Gear 300 in the summer and then change back, every single winter, to a DCT fluid, now THAT is "crazy". LOL ;)

I am curious about just where the full street (below autocross use) G-Loc pads fall (aggressiveness/cold bite/rotor wear-wise) into the Hawk 'street' lineup. [dunno]
 


OP
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Thread Starter #19
Great conversations going on here, thanks to everyone who responded.

I've used Hawk HP+ and the Carbotech 1521 (street). I'm pretty sure the G-Loc compound is the same as the Carbotechs. I used the CT 1521 on a BRZ and Mustang GT, Hawk HPS on the Mustang only. I don't want to start a war here, but I'll share my honest opinion.

CT 1521: Bite similar to the XP10/12 I use on the track. To me the XP cold bite is fine, but I can really feel the friction coefficient rise as they heat up. The 1521 has fade resistance similar to Ford OE pads, better than Subaru's. For me, these are not track pads. The compound is compatible with the XP series, so you can go back and forth with no trouble. 1521s are pretty much silent.

Hawk HP+: Extremely noisy, worse than the CT XP series. Ridiculously grabby, very hard to modulate on the street. They dust the most of any pad I've ever tried. On track they faded worse than the OE pads. I could not do 1 lap without a soft pedal. Seriously. One of my rear pads actually melted, spraying pad material around the inside of my rim. To cap it off, the dust seems corrosive, pitting wheels if you don't wash it off within a few days. I hated this pad.

But I've heard good things about Hawk HP, and their race compounds. I had one terrible experience.
 


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