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System upgrade on a budget

OP
Stormy
Messages
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26
Location
Seattle
Thread Starter #21
Not sure I would consider that "on a budget", but for sure it sounds awesome (get it? :)

Sweet head's up on that FORSCAN hack (I had missed [MENTION=7548]chicagoslick[/MENTION] 's thread previously)
"Sounds awesome" LOL

Yeah, "budget" is totally subjective and relative from person to person, for sure. Hey, I was broke as hell and I proved that you could get serious bumps for under $100 in my original sub upgrade thread. Antarctica24 has built systems for people that cost $35k. Everyone's got their own threshold for pain.

I think less than $500 total for a complete system replacement ($300 for the front stage, amp upgrade and EQ) is definitely "budget" by almost any car audio upgrade standards, especially when you consider the brands being used - Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Soundstream, PPI, plus a custom box and tweeter pods. Yes, you can get a "1000" watt amp and some speakers and a sub for under $200 but at the end of the day the results will barely be better than stock and something will probably die on you in short order. I know from experience.

The real savings comes with the DIY aspect. Labor, especially good labor and custom work, is crazy expensive and hardware costs more at brick and mortar stores (for good reason). My Alpine components were around $80 on Amazon. If you got them plus installation at Car Toys or Best Buy it would cost $300. Add the same amp, EQ, sub, custom box, custom tweeter pods, wiring, and labor and it would probably run you another $1000-1200. Plus, I have less than $100 in sound deadening material. Car Toys quoted me $400-600 to do the same job with lesser materials. If you include my sub and sound deadening I'm basically getting a $1500-2000 system for $400-500. If you have the money to spend on parts and labor, do it. I'm going to have a loooot of hours into this project. LOL But I'll also have a lot of money left over and a better understanding of my car.
 


Messages
364
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357
Location
SE, PA
#22
*edit* I just noticed your dimensions. I looked at the ones in the amazon descriptions and they said 9 inches tall, which is not correct.

The 8 inch box should fit under there. The 10 inch is a little too wide and long. You'll run into the spare on the side and the mounting tab for the deck lid in the back.

Also, since I'm on this kick of running curves, I worked up that TS-SWX2002. It looks like it's stuffed with Pioneer's TS-SW2002D2 shallow mount sub since the type, power rating and sensitivity are all the same. I'm guesstimating the inner volume by the overall dimensions, and assuming the feet are an inch tall. Depending on the thickness of the wood you're looking at .15 to .18 cubic foot, and that's being generous. Using the TS parameters of that speaker at and assuming the best case scenario of .18 cu/ft, that box is basically a midbass. 0db at 72hz, -3db at 62Hz, -6db at 53 Hz, -12db at 40Hz, and peaks at +3db at 101 Hz. At .15 the numbers are even worse, about 3Hz higher across the board.

In comparison, my old Boss CXX8 in a .35 box with polyfill dug deeper (5hz lower than the Pioneer across all the landmarks) and probably played louder and it was $20 plus about $30 in materials to build the enclosure. If you're not comfortable with building your own box I guess the Pioneer is a decent option but if you can DIY it would save you over $100 and get you better bass. Then again, if you can build your own box you can get the same Fosgate that I am running and have far better bass and still be $30-40 below the price of the Pioneer box.

Just my two cents.
I appreciate the response and thanks for the information you found via the online calculator. I had estimated the internal volume of the 8" enclosure somewhere around .19-.2 cubic feet which still seemed small even for a shallow 8" woofer. I wasn't sure if Pioneer packed it with a fill material (doubtful).

I will probably bite the bullet and build something myself; I've done so in the past. I was trying to take the lazy route and probably would not have been very satisfied. Thanks for putting me back on the right path.
 


Waterfan

Active member
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565
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171
Location
SoCal
#23
I think less than $500 total for a complete system replacement ($300 for the front stage, amp upgrade and EQ) is definitely "budget" by almost any car audio upgrade standards, especially when you consider the brands being used - Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, Soundstream, PPI, plus a custom box and tweeter pods. Yes, you can get a "1000" watt amp and some speakers and a sub for under $200 but at the end of the day the results will barely be better than stock and something will probably die on you in short order. I know from experience.
I must have missed this before. I agree $500 is definitely "budget" (and probably bare minimum to extract any real, noticeable improvements).
 


Messages
206
Likes
39
Location
Indianapolis
#24
I must have missed this before. I agree $500 is definitely "budget" (and probably bare minimum to extract any real, noticeable improvements).
I actually think a noticeable difference can be had with just the addition of a subwoofer. That cost could be as cheap as $200-$300. Run this search and you will see a few options from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...obile&rh=i:aps,k:powered+subwoofer+automobile

If you go with the Kenwood, Cerwin Vega, Pioneer, or Rockford Fosgate units plus an Audio Control LC2i you will be good to go.


To make the next noticeable difference would require another +$200.
 


Waterfan

Active member
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Location
SoCal
#25
I actually think a noticeable difference can be had with just the addition of a subwoofer. That cost could be as cheap as $200-$300. Run this search and you will see a few options from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...obile&rh=i:aps,k:powered+subwoofer+automobile

If you go with the Kenwood, Cerwin Vega, Pioneer, or Rockford Fosgate units plus an Audio Control LC2i you will be good to go.


To make the next noticeable difference would require another +$200.
Agreed, I was unclear. I meant ~$500 sounded appropriate for "front stage" improvements. Adding any size sub helps noticeably as well, independent of any other improvements.
 


OP
Stormy
Messages
125
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26
Location
Seattle
Thread Starter #27
Quick update. I've been busy with other stuff. The Alpines needed baffles. They don't quite sit in the stock cups if you cut them up like other people have shown with other speakers and they wouldn't seal up against the door because the hole was too large. I just cut some baffles out of 1/2" MDF. They look a bit rough because my router took a shit on me and I had to cut them with a jigsaw. They will work, though. I had to inset the screw holes in order to use the factory screws because they were only meant for 1/16th inch of ABS. They just barely will fit behind the door panel. Any taller and the surround might hit the inside of the door. I'll have to pull the wiring and get everything hooked up to the amp on another day. Stock speakers are back in for now.

DoorCrop.jpg
 


Messages
100
Likes
23
Location
Houston
#28
That's a good, quick solution. If you live in a climate that gets much rain you are going to have to modify it a bit. You could plastidip the ring on both sides to seal it for the most part. The screw holes could still slowly wick moisture, but it should take a long time.

The foolproof move is to hit Home Depot and grab some flat PVC and use the MDF as a template. That'll probably outlive the car.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 


OP
Stormy
Messages
125
Likes
26
Location
Seattle
Thread Starter #29
Update:

I tore the doors apart again. Test fitted both sides and made sure the magnets will clear the window when it's rolled down, which is something I neglected to check before. It's all good, nearly an inch of clearance. I also moved the line level converter to under the dash, against the fender well, next to the side of the glove box and tapped into the front speaker wiring (I was only tied in to the right side rear before for the sub). I wanted to complete the installation but I ran out of time because I'm not sure how best to go about running power from the amp to the front speakers. It's not as easy as pulling new wire to the doors because the boots that run between the car and the door are completely filled with terminal blocks. I posted a separate help request thread in case you're interested.

I also put sound deadening material in the front doors. I didn't want to mess with the window motors and removing the plastic door panels and I have long skinny arms so I was able to access pretty much every square inch of the door by reaching through the speaker hole. I'll report on the effects of that later. I still need to do the rear doors.

Relocated Line Level Converter, attached with velcro
LLC.jpg

The best shot I could manage of the door deadening. I probably have 80% coverage inside the doors.
deaddoor.jpg

The T-Taps on the front speaker wires, just upstream of the terminal blocks in the door boots, passenger side.
plug.jpg
 


antarctica24

Active member
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669
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344
Location
O'Fallon, MO, USA
#30
I'm building a budget system.....but thus while thread went way over my head. Wow


I'm going stock headunit, component Type S in front, regular for the rear. Keeping the tweeters in the stock location for simplicity. Then using my old 4 channel amp to power the speakers and a mono for my sub. I'm still trying to source the different line converters I'll need and that's hurting my head


I tried understanding what your doing and it went in one ear out the other
Don't think about it like that. Its not complicated. All he's doing is using the Forscan to go from high level output to low level output, this allows you to send the factory signal to the amp. You could go about it by buying an amp that accepted high level inputs or get a high level to low level converter. The change at the headunit with the forscan is better because you are making less breaks in the signal to get to the amp.

He's changing out speakers and adding a sub

and he is looking for something to adjust his signal to compensate for the interior. The factory radio has a lot of tuning done to it, including Equalization, Time Alignment, and level adjustments.

I think the question still out there is where is the tuning done? Is it done in the radio, factory built in amp, or an outside box.

When I installed my aftermarket radio, power output increased but the factory tuning remained. That makes me thing the tuning is coming from an outside box between the radio and speakers. If this is the case, you will have to use your own speaker wires to bypass. If you just tap into the factory wire, you will still have the factory tuning.

Oh yeah, and he's relocating the tweeters.
 


antarctica24

Active member
Messages
669
Likes
344
Location
O'Fallon, MO, USA
#31
Update:

I tore the doors apart again. Test fitted both sides and made sure the magnets will clear the window when it's rolled down, which is something I neglected to check before. It's all good, nearly an inch of clearance. I also moved the line level converter to under the dash, against the fender well, next to the side of the glove box and tapped into the front speaker wiring (I was only tied in to the right side rear before for the sub). I wanted to complete the installation but I ran out of time because I'm not sure how best to go about running power from the amp to the front speakers. It's not as easy as pulling new wire to the doors because the boots that run between the car and the door are completely filled with terminal blocks. I posted a separate help request thread in case you're interested.

I also put sound deadening material in the front doors. I didn't want to mess with the window motors and removing the plastic door panels and I have long skinny arms so I was able to access pretty much every square inch of the door by reaching through the speaker hole. I'll report on the effects of that later. I still need to do the rear doors.

Relocated Line Level Converter, attached with velcro
View attachment 15310

The best shot I could manage of the door deadening. I probably have 80% coverage inside the doors.
View attachment 15311

The T-Taps on the front speaker wires, just upstream of the terminal blocks in the door boots, passenger side.
View attachment 15312

Nice job sir
 




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