OK, my subwoofer upgrade on a budget project is complete and rather than continue that thread off-topic I am going to start this thread for the rest of the system.
Adding the sub to my car improved the listening experience greatly but also just calls attention to how lackluster the rest of the system is. It also awakened some of the audiophile/competitor that had gone dormant in me over the last 15 years of making due with stock stereos. I used to compete and SQ judge on the IASCA circuit in the mid to late 90's. I took trophies in Novice 151-300 class, built crazy systems, had sponsorships from Esoteric/Streetwires and Oz Audio, and used to seriously just hang out at a couple of local shops almost every day in my spare time. Then I went to college and was poor and just got used to not having nice systems. I have forgotten a lot of what I used to know and the industry has evolved without me. I'm at a point now where I have some money to spend on improvements but I'm not planning on competing again and I don't want to end up sleeping on the couch for investing a bunch of money into my car, something the wife has zero concept of
So, continuing my "on a budget theme" this is going to be a bang for the buck upgrade that's approachable for just about anyone. As with my subwoofer project, you can learn from my mistakes, follow the inevitable evolution, give input, ask questions, etc. *Zen voice* It's going to be about the journey. I apologize in advance for my future streams of consciousness, over thinking, backtracking and other annoyances.
So here's my plan, which has already changed over the last couple days and will surely change more:
1. Remedy the stock signal issues - The stock stereo employs a bunch of hidden DSP with frequency limiting and time adjustment (see antarctic24's awesome system tuning thread to learn all about this nonsense). I was considering getting the JL Audio Fix82 to correct all the factory DSP. At $329 it's not cheap but it'd absolutely be worth every penny. However, there's a FORSCAN hack (see chicagoslick's LC2i thread) which will let you bypass the stock stereo DSP for free (minus the few bucks for a dongle). Boom, unadulterated signal, money saved to invest in a line driver and other stuff.
2. Switch out my 2 channel sub amp for a 4 channel amp - I was considering a 6 channel so I could upgrade and run rears but I don't think I need them. There are plenty of arguments for some rear fill but I didn't run any in either of my comp systems (although one was in a truck) and I didn't miss it. I also don't ever have rear passengers who would benefit from them and it will keep the cost and complexity down considerably to not need a larger amp, more or better line converters to maintain fading, and more speakers.
3. Move the tweeters - The stock locations suuuuuuck. Too low, too far back. With simple baffles they can go in the little triangle windows, which coincidentally put them equidistant to most people's ears from the mids in the door (~36"). This will also bring up the staging and improve cross cabin signal. I thought about trying to relocate the mids to the kickpanels but I'm pretty sure there's not enough room for a 6.5. Maybe... I'll leave it as a future consideration. Perhaps a 3 way component system with a 3 or 4 in the kicks, but 3 way sets are far from "budget".
4. Add some better processing - Bass/mid/treble adjustment at the head unit is better than nothing but I want more granular tuning options to get the most from my investment, even if it is "budget".
5. Deaden the doors - I've already done the back half of the car with RAAM Mat and Ensolite. I've been putting off the doors until I had to pull them to do speakers. Less road noise, better midbass response.
My proposed equipment:
Soundstream Picasso Nano PN4.520- I used to compete with all soundstream amps and I have good history with them. This unit is $120 and pushes 4x100 or 2x230. It's not CEA-2006 compliant but it's passed bench dyno tests with flying colors so I'm confident about it. I have considered other Class D amps including the Alpine MRVF300, JL Audio JX400/4D, and Rockford Fosgate Prime R400-4D. All will fit under the driver seat (see my sub thread to see how little space there is to work with) and they vary from 50-75 watts x4, are CEA-2006, and cost around $200. If I was using the onboard crossovers I would go with one of the other 3 because the crossover on the soundstream is not variable and I don't like the 2 LP options, but I am planning on going outboard for processing so I'd rather save the money and have the extra power.
Alpine SPS-610c component speakers - There are lots of good speakers under $150 that will fit in our doors. I listened to about 20 pairs and to my ears these sounded the best untuned, even compared to options 3-4 times the price. Your preferences may vary but to me these were warm and rich sounding without being sharp or boxy. They can be had for $75 a pair and as a bonus the tweeters swivel so I can keep my mounting baffles simple and flat but still aim the tweeters for better axial response.
Processing - This is where things get tricky. For $429 (or over $500 with the optional knob) I can get a JL Audio TWK88. It's a phenomenal unit with ridiculous levels of equalization, time correction, crossover, etc. on all 8 channels and 4v out. Then again, there's the Cadence DSP4.8 for $200, which is very similar in features but has mixed reviews. They're still working out the kinks and it sounds like it can be a crapshoot to get a good one. They also both require laptops to tune which makes on the fly changes all but impossible for difference source material (aside from profile switching via a knob). So then there's the option of a graphic or quasi parametric eq like the clarion EQS755 which would allow for easy tuning on the fly, has up to a 7v line out and, honestly, probably enough channels of tuning for my needs (although I would totally use the extra features of the DSPs if I got one), and costs $65. Decisions, decisions.
So a whole system could be done bare bones for under $250 with an install kit and LLC (Around $400 total if you add the sub I used, an and box materials). Not bad. The processing is the budget wild card.
So there it is. Pick it apart!
Adding the sub to my car improved the listening experience greatly but also just calls attention to how lackluster the rest of the system is. It also awakened some of the audiophile/competitor that had gone dormant in me over the last 15 years of making due with stock stereos. I used to compete and SQ judge on the IASCA circuit in the mid to late 90's. I took trophies in Novice 151-300 class, built crazy systems, had sponsorships from Esoteric/Streetwires and Oz Audio, and used to seriously just hang out at a couple of local shops almost every day in my spare time. Then I went to college and was poor and just got used to not having nice systems. I have forgotten a lot of what I used to know and the industry has evolved without me. I'm at a point now where I have some money to spend on improvements but I'm not planning on competing again and I don't want to end up sleeping on the couch for investing a bunch of money into my car, something the wife has zero concept of
So, continuing my "on a budget theme" this is going to be a bang for the buck upgrade that's approachable for just about anyone. As with my subwoofer project, you can learn from my mistakes, follow the inevitable evolution, give input, ask questions, etc. *Zen voice* It's going to be about the journey. I apologize in advance for my future streams of consciousness, over thinking, backtracking and other annoyances.
So here's my plan, which has already changed over the last couple days and will surely change more:
1. Remedy the stock signal issues - The stock stereo employs a bunch of hidden DSP with frequency limiting and time adjustment (see antarctic24's awesome system tuning thread to learn all about this nonsense). I was considering getting the JL Audio Fix82 to correct all the factory DSP. At $329 it's not cheap but it'd absolutely be worth every penny. However, there's a FORSCAN hack (see chicagoslick's LC2i thread) which will let you bypass the stock stereo DSP for free (minus the few bucks for a dongle). Boom, unadulterated signal, money saved to invest in a line driver and other stuff.
2. Switch out my 2 channel sub amp for a 4 channel amp - I was considering a 6 channel so I could upgrade and run rears but I don't think I need them. There are plenty of arguments for some rear fill but I didn't run any in either of my comp systems (although one was in a truck) and I didn't miss it. I also don't ever have rear passengers who would benefit from them and it will keep the cost and complexity down considerably to not need a larger amp, more or better line converters to maintain fading, and more speakers.
3. Move the tweeters - The stock locations suuuuuuck. Too low, too far back. With simple baffles they can go in the little triangle windows, which coincidentally put them equidistant to most people's ears from the mids in the door (~36"). This will also bring up the staging and improve cross cabin signal. I thought about trying to relocate the mids to the kickpanels but I'm pretty sure there's not enough room for a 6.5. Maybe... I'll leave it as a future consideration. Perhaps a 3 way component system with a 3 or 4 in the kicks, but 3 way sets are far from "budget".
4. Add some better processing - Bass/mid/treble adjustment at the head unit is better than nothing but I want more granular tuning options to get the most from my investment, even if it is "budget".
5. Deaden the doors - I've already done the back half of the car with RAAM Mat and Ensolite. I've been putting off the doors until I had to pull them to do speakers. Less road noise, better midbass response.
My proposed equipment:
Soundstream Picasso Nano PN4.520- I used to compete with all soundstream amps and I have good history with them. This unit is $120 and pushes 4x100 or 2x230. It's not CEA-2006 compliant but it's passed bench dyno tests with flying colors so I'm confident about it. I have considered other Class D amps including the Alpine MRVF300, JL Audio JX400/4D, and Rockford Fosgate Prime R400-4D. All will fit under the driver seat (see my sub thread to see how little space there is to work with) and they vary from 50-75 watts x4, are CEA-2006, and cost around $200. If I was using the onboard crossovers I would go with one of the other 3 because the crossover on the soundstream is not variable and I don't like the 2 LP options, but I am planning on going outboard for processing so I'd rather save the money and have the extra power.
Alpine SPS-610c component speakers - There are lots of good speakers under $150 that will fit in our doors. I listened to about 20 pairs and to my ears these sounded the best untuned, even compared to options 3-4 times the price. Your preferences may vary but to me these were warm and rich sounding without being sharp or boxy. They can be had for $75 a pair and as a bonus the tweeters swivel so I can keep my mounting baffles simple and flat but still aim the tweeters for better axial response.
Processing - This is where things get tricky. For $429 (or over $500 with the optional knob) I can get a JL Audio TWK88. It's a phenomenal unit with ridiculous levels of equalization, time correction, crossover, etc. on all 8 channels and 4v out. Then again, there's the Cadence DSP4.8 for $200, which is very similar in features but has mixed reviews. They're still working out the kinks and it sounds like it can be a crapshoot to get a good one. They also both require laptops to tune which makes on the fly changes all but impossible for difference source material (aside from profile switching via a knob). So then there's the option of a graphic or quasi parametric eq like the clarion EQS755 which would allow for easy tuning on the fly, has up to a 7v line out and, honestly, probably enough channels of tuning for my needs (although I would totally use the extra features of the DSPs if I got one), and costs $65. Decisions, decisions.
So a whole system could be done bare bones for under $250 with an install kit and LLC (Around $400 total if you add the sub I used, an and box materials). Not bad. The processing is the budget wild card.
So there it is. Pick it apart!
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