Hidden costs of a turbo upgrade

[jeff]

Having recently upgraded to X47 I am learning a few things about the true investment required for this or presumably any turbo upgrade. Thought I'd share to maybe help others plan in advance. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

WHAT YOU KNOW YOU NEED
Turbo & elbow
FMIC
Downpipe
Accessport & mount
Tuner
Gaskets/hardware/etc.

WHAT YOU SHOULD PROBABLY GET
Intake
Exhaust and hangers
RMM

HIDDEN OR LESS-KNOWN COSTS
Upgraded diverter valve
Upgraded plugs
Upgraded waste gate actuator
Upgraded charge pipes

The valve, in addition to helping hold boost, is great for eliminating pesky low-rev venting noises. I am finding the charge pipes necessary as my hot side OEM pipe blew loose last evening. The stocker is pretty flimsy and flexible.

So these "hidden costs" might be obvious to some but maybe not. Depending on brand, all four of the above will run $550+. In all my reading of the various upgrade threads there wasn't too much talk of these, probably because people already had them or because needing them was a given. Coming from a full bolt on minus downpipe setup I had none of these.

Anyhow think about adding $550ish to the budget if you're planning an upgrade and didn't plan on these things. I'm a planner and didn't do enough homework so I've ended up spending a bit more than planned. Well worth it of course.

 

[Nate489]

You don't need charge pipes

 

[jeff]

You don't need charge pipes

Maybe not. I double clamped the hot side hoses, hopefully that will keep things in place.

 

[FLORIDAST]

Just do what I'm doing, slowly add all the supporting parts and then get the turbo. It won't hurt as much then.

 

[frankiefiesta]

I had more trouble with Cobb hot side pipe than the OEM. The cobb was always popping off even with t bolt clamps

 

[jeff]

I had more trouble with Cobb hot side pipe than the OEM. The cobb was always popping off even with t bolt clamps

Thanks man. Actually I just started a "charge pipe popped off" thread, would you mind commenting there?

 

[Based]

What hardware/gaskets do you need? And what plugs and diverter valve?

 

[jeff]

What hardware/gaskets do you need? And what plugs and diverter valve?

Full Ford parts list on my review thread, click for link.

I got the NKG 6510 Iridium plugs and the GFB DV+. I suppose the plugs and DV aren't really necessary but in order to maximize the upgrade they are helpful, especially the DV which among other benefits got rid of that pesky whistle.

 

[Based]

Full Ford parts list on my review thread, click for link.

I got the NKG 6510 Iridium plugs and the GFB DV+. I suppose the plugs and DV aren't really necessary but in order to maximize the upgrade they are helpful, especially the DV which among other benefits got rid of that pesky whistle.

Ok cool thanks. Puma speed has an option when you buy the x47 to pick your dump valve and the GFB DV+ is an option along with some turbosmart stuff. I was going to pick the turbosmart plumb back because it makes that flutter noise. Is the GFB DV+ any different or better option?

 

[jeff]

Ok cool thanks. Puma speed has an option when you buy the x47 to pick your dump valve and the GFB DV+ is an option along with some turbosmart stuff. I was going to pick the turbosmart plumb back because it makes that flutter noise. Is the GFB DV+ any different or better option?

Sure, glad to help. I did extensive research on the DFB DV+ (there is a decent sized thread about it) and found that many people preferred it for different reasons over the turbosmart. I don't have experience with both but I went with the GFB because my tuner recommends it and also because I liked their "When you want no noise, no nonsense, just performance" motto on their website. It fulfilled its claims.

 

[alphanumeric]

I had more trouble with Cobb hot side pipe than the OEM. The cobb was always popping off even with t bolt clamps

Dang man that sucks.
I only every had problems with stock charge pipes coming off. I did upgrade to Cobb and then I broke a weld on the pipe where it bolted to the oil pan. I took pictures and sent it to Cobb. They redesigned the mounting bracket for me and sent a replacement with a bunch of rubber grommets to work in there (all for free). About 10k miles and 5 track days at the nurburgring since then and everything is still perfect.

 

[SirThomas88]

Thanks for sharing this super helpful info jeff.

This is a little off-topic, but what is this "pesky low-rev venting noise" you mentioned?

The valve, in addition to helping hold boost, is great for eliminating pesky low-rev venting noises.

I'm asking because several months ago I installed a 2014 Injen SRI intake (and Woosh Adapter to make work on my 2016) and very noticeably at low revs (up to about 2,900 RPM and starting around 30-50% throttle) there's a "fluttering" intake noise. Sounds like a valve rapidly opening and closing which is pretty ugly sounding and I've been trying to figure out what is it and how to eliminate it, unless maybe its there to limit boost for safety at low rpm. Everything else about the car is stock.

Do you think this could be the "pesky low-rev venting noise" you mention?

 

[jeff]

Thanks for sharing this super helpful info jeff.

This is a little off-topic, but what is this "pesky low-rev venting noise" you mentioned?



I'm asking because several months ago I installed a 2014 Injen SRI intake (and Woosh Adapter to make work on my 2016) and very noticeably at low revs (up to about 2,900 RPM and starting around 30-50% throttle) there's a "fluttering" intake noise. Sounds like a valve rapidly opening and closing which is pretty ugly sounding and I've been trying to figure out what is it and how to eliminate it, unless maybe its there to limit boost for safety at low rpm. Everything else about the car is stock.

Do you think this could be the "pesky low-rev venting noise" you mention?

My bet on your noise is that the bypass valve is not opening under part throttle. My car made the exact noise you're describing back a year or so ago after I started the tuning process on stock turbo. My tuner told me it was the bypass valve and eliminated the noise with a tune revision. With my new tune (still finalizing revisions as we speak) I notice the same noise very slightly. That might be your noise or it might be related to your intake, once you add intakes (and the Injen is known to be pretty loud) they magnify any air noises in the car, even noises that were there but were so subtle you didn't notice, but now are accentuated. So it could be normal. In my case I just in the last few weeks added a new downpipe and ported manifold and new turbo and plugs and WGA and BPV so it is possible that my new noises (there are many) came from any of those or a combination.

Bottom line, you add parts and you get new noises. Some are normal and others might not be. I'm working to eliminate whatever is possible.

I highly doubt you're hearing the low rev venting noise, it happened in neutral revving the engine when the car wasn't moving, sounds unrelated and different than what you're describing.

Hope that helps.

 

[CB022481]

[MENTION=3995]jeff[/MENTION] how much of an acceleration difference can you feel? ive been tweaking on the x47 for a while... just don't want to spend the $$ if it isn't "worth" it.

 

[jeff]

[MENTION=3995]jeff[/MENTION] how much of an acceleration difference can you feel? ive been tweaking on the x47 for a while... just don't want to spend the $$ if it isn't "worth" it.

I felt nothing. The DV+ isn't about acceleration difference, from what I understand it is about holding boost better. Supposedly it allows sharper throttle response but I think that's just marketing, I didn't notice any difference. I didn't look at my logs to see if it actually held boost better, but I'm sure it does. There is probably a difference but with all the new parts I threw on the car at once I'm not going to be able to pinpoint it. What I'm saying is there probably IS a difference, but not one you'd feel.

My reason for purchase was to eliminate a noise, and it did just that so I am happy. I will say that after seeing the dollar-tree quality stock DV compared to the high quality GFB piece, it's well worth the money spent!

*****
From GFB's website:

The solenoid coil itself from the factory-fitted valve is great- the ECU opens it faster than any pneumatic valve so why replace it? The weak point however, is the valve mechanism itself. GFB’s DV+ solves this problem by replacing the valve parts with an anodised billet aluminium housing, fitted with a brass piston machined to exacting tolerances.

The end result is sharper throttle response, lightning-fast valve actuation, and it will hold as much boost as you can throw at it. Read all about the DV+ story below. Other manufacturers’ products involve replacing the entire system with a traditional pneumatic valve. This approach requires long vacuum hose runs, additional parts for tapping into the intake manifold vacuum, plus a different solenoid valve to actuate the pneumatic valve, or a ballast resistor to plug into the OE wiring loom. All these additional items result in a product that is slower, less responsive, more expensive and takes much longer to install.

GFB’s DV+ solution on the other hand is more responsive, less expensive, easier to install, and doesn’t cause compressor surge/ turbo flutter. Oh, and it doesn’t require different springs or frequent re-builds either.

GET BETTER PERFORMANCE, FASTER BOOST RECOVERY AND DON’T PAY FOR WHAT YOU DON’T NEED!

 

[CB022481]

I actually meant the turbo, not the gfb... I should've clarified.

 

[wraith]

Can we not do the more common diverter/BOVs like Greddy, HKS, or Tial?

 

[CB022481]

we can, but youll need to do some work.

 

[Nightcrew13]

Bottom line, you add parts and you get new noises. Some are normal and others might not be. I'm working to eliminate whatever is possible.

Hope that helps.

Also known as Sleeper Cell Speed!

 

[jeff]

I actually meant the turbo, not the gfb... I should've clarified.

OK then, check out my X47 honest review thread (click to link) I wrote up a few weeks ago, plenty of perspective there.