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School me on brakes

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#1
My fiesta is going to need brakes soon. And this is the first car I own where I have many options as far pads/rotors go. This car spends 90% of it's time as a daily driver with occasional runs through canyons and mountains.

I'd like a combination that's equal or better than the stock pads. But ideally ones that aren't as noisy or make as much dust as the stockers go.

Post up your setups and let me know!!! Thansk
 


OP
miguel.in.az
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Thread Starter #4
OEM if you like the way they work and don't want more aggressive
If I can't find anything else to my liking that's what I'll go with and I'll just have to learn to deal with the dust.

Is there an option to buy just the mountune pads? That's awfully spendy when I can get motorcraft or stop tech rotors cheap off rockauto.
 


A7xogg

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#5
If I can't find anything else to my liking that's what I'll go with and I'll just have to learn to deal with the dust.



Is there an option to buy just the mountune pads? That's awfully spendy when I can get motorcraft or stop tech rotors cheap off rockauto.
idk i dont need brakes so i havent looked around much lol
 


me32

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#7
Ive just stuck with the oem rotors and pads they brake so well for street and light autocross use i dont want to lose that. But they are very dusty.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#9
Carbotech 1521 bobcat pads....Front centric cryotreated slotted rotors and rear centric non cryo treated slotted rotors with carbotech 1521 bobcat pads...couldn't be any happier...rotors were gotten off rockauto...they were the cheapest and best available...virtually no dust and less time cleaning wheels and more time drinking some beers...


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OP
miguel.in.az
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Thread Starter #10
Carbotech 1521 bobcat pads....Front centric cryotreated slotted rotors and rear centric non cryo treated slotted rotors with carbotech 1521 bobcat pads...couldn't be any happier...rotors were gotten off rockauto...they were the cheapest and best available...virtually no dust and less time cleaning wheels and more time drinking some beers...


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Did you say beer???????
 


Intuit

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#12
It's pretty much a choice between wearing out the pads, or wearing out the rotors. Really hard pads that produce less dust will wear the rotors significantly faster. There may also be a greater amount of heat generated. Personal choice, but I'll stick with the dust.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#14
It's pretty much a choice between wearing out the pads, or wearing out the rotors. Really hard pads that produce less dust will wear the rotors significantly faster. There may also be a greater amount of heat generated. Personal choice, but I'll stick with the dust.
This is not True...generate heat yes...wear rotors quicker no. It is a myth...

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Intuit

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#16
This is not True...generate heat yes...wear rotors quicker no. It is a myth...
Never heard this, just experienced it. It's physics, not myth. I once made the mistake of purchasing "lifetime" pads. Never had to replace those pads, but I sure as hell had to replace my rotors. If you purchase harder pads that themselves wear slower and do nothing with your factory rotors, your rotors will wear faster. You can help offset that by purchasing denser, higher quality rotors. But as I expressed, it is my preference that I keep replacing pads and not bother with the rotors. As far as the potential compromises with heat and going denser, that's why they slot/drill them. The slot/drill also helps with stopping performance and to a lesser degree, rotating mass. But the slot/drill may also increase pad wear.

 


TyphoonFiST

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#17
Never heard this, just experienced it. It's physics, not myth. I once made the mistake of purchasing "lifetime" pads. Never had to replace those pads, but I sure as hell had to replace my rotors. If you purchase harder pads that themselves wear slower and do nothing with your factory rotors, your rotors will wear faster. You can help offset that by purchasing denser, higher quality rotors. But as I expressed, it is my preference that I keep replacing pads and not bother with the rotors. As far as the potential compromises with heat and going denser, that's why they slot/drill them. The slot/drill also helps with stopping performance and to a lesser degree, rotating mass. But the slot/drill may also increase pad wear.

As the name implies, semi-metallic pads contain anywhere from 30-65% metal by weight, typically consisting of steel, iron, copper, etc. combined with friction modifiers and fillers, as well as a graphite lubricant. Semi-metallic brake pads are arguably the most versatile style available, with the slight compromise being more noise and dust. They are also longer lasting and more durable, and their metallic composition can help draw heat away from the rotor and aid in more efficient brake cooling.

Pros:Dramatically increased braking performance over organic padsHave a much higher thermal threshold due to metallic contentStill provide good cold biteHave a much wider operating range (temperature)Low compressibility ā€“ will provide a firmer brake pedal feelMuch more resistant to brake fade than organic padsNumerous compounds available ā€“ suitable for anything from daily street driving to extreme track useCons:Tend to be noisier than organic or ceramic padsProduce more brake dustMore abrasive than other types of pads ā€“ will wear brake rotors more quicklyMore expensive than organic pads (but generally cheaper than ceramic)Require careful and proper bedding-in for best performance

Ceramic Brake Pads

The comparative new kid on the block is the ceramic brake pad. Ceramic pads are composed of a dense ceramic material (like pottery fired in a kiln) with embedded copper fibers. In use since the 1980s, ceramic pads were developed as an alternative replacement for organic and semi-metallic brake pads because at the time these types produced too much noise and dust. Ceramic pads are also generally easier on rotors than semi-metallic pads.

Pros:Quieter than semi-metallic pads ā€“ emit noises that are above the range of human hearingProduce finer, lighter-colored brake dust which does not stick to wheelsLonger lifespan than organic or semi-metallicStable under a wide range of temperatures for consistent performanceCons:Typically the most-expensive type of brake padDo not produce as much cold bite as semi-metallic pads ā€“ may not be ideal in extremely cold climatesDo not absorb heat as well as semi-metallic pads which can increase brake system temperaturesGood all-around braking characteristics but were never designed as heavy duty/racing brake padsBraking is a Compromise

Back to the question at hand - semi-metallic vs. ceramic brake pads. As said before, there is no single brake pad that can reign supreme in every single situation. If you want clean, quiet stops, youā€™ll pay for it in braking performance. If you want massive amounts of brake bite under extreme temperatures, youā€™ll be cleaning your wheels every few days. Thatā€™s just the way it works in the world of brakes. Ceramic pads offer quieter stops, cleaner wheels, and generally longer pad life due to their harder composition. The downsides include less cold bite, rendering them less effective in cold weather or before the brakes are up to temperature. In addition, they typically have a lower coefficient of friction than their semi-metallic counterparts (the higher the coefficient of friction, the better a brake pad will stop your vehicle). Ceramic pads were never designed to be extreme performance or racing brake pads. The ceramic material is also a less-effective heat sink than their metallic equivalents - instead they act almost like an insulator. The less heat the pad is able to absorb, the more the heat is retained in the brake rotor and surrounding components, which can lead to increased temperatures of the entire brake system.

Semi-metallic pads, on the other hand, while they do produce more noise and dust, are arguably the more versatile of the two. They are more effective over a wider range of temperatures and have a much higher thermal threshold. They provide better cold bite than ceramic pads and maintain much more consistent friction characteristics throughout their operating range. If you plan on driving your car in anger on a racetrack (or even a spirited mountain run), semi-metallic pads are the clear choice. But for casual city or highway driving, commuting, or chauffeuring the kids around town, ceramic or organic pads offer ample stopping power with the added benefits of quietness, cleaner wheels, and longer lifespan.

Read it an weep...you have been sacked....misinformed....led astray or other wise fooled my fellow mate....



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Intuit

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#18
Okeedokee. Nice copy & paste job dude and thanks for forwarding my point. Now let's abbreviate this...

My Point: I prefer dust and pads versus replacing rotors.
Your Point: Harder pads don't wear rotors faster.
My Point: I had harder pads and had to replace rotors.
Your point: You can buy softer pads with different color dust.

 


TyphoonFiST

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#19
Okeedokee. Nice copy & paste job dude and thanks for forwarding my point. Now let's abbreviate this...

My Point: I prefer dust and pads versus replacing rotors.
Your Point: Harder pads don't wear rotors faster.
My Point: I had harder pads and had to replace rotors.
Your point: You can buy softer pads with different color dust.

Yes it was to reiterate that ceramic pads ARE NOT harder on rotors. If you have trouble reading I know some tutors and maybe hooked on phonics might help. Just remember left to right when reading take breaks...Tylenol for and headaches and Midol for any cramps.


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Intuit

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#20
Have you noticed?

I can make a point without personal insults... because I don't have to. [dictate] My points stand on their own. With regard to understanding and comprehension, asking questions goes a long way.

Your Point: I can't read because I stated or implied, "ceramic pads are harder on rotors".

My Point: Again... the HARDER the pad, the MORE your rotors wear. Again, this is a simple fact of physics. What will wear your rotors more? Organic or Ceramic? Will you say "Organic"?

The statement *you* made rests upon the assumption that every semi-metallic is softer than every ceramic and that there is a significant difference. Both assumptions are incorrect. Remember, there is a wide margin for compositioning, "30-65%" according your copy & paste statements from a marketing page. Knowing that we cannot simply throw physics out the window, it stands to reason that SOME Semi-Metallic pads "COULD POSSIBLY" (link) wear your rotors "A LITTLE (link)" (notice all the qualifiers yet?) more than ceramic, depending upon composition... and composition translates to... wait... wait some more... h a r d n e s s. Physics may also lend to the idea that your smoother ceramic pads simply work by converting more of the kinetic energy to heat. However, there's still a trade-off... the hotter the metal rotor, the softer it becomes. The softer it is, the quicker and easier it is to wear away... hence, why I previously mentioned changing to denser rotors as means of offsetting the additional hardness. Also to note, smoother pads regardless of hardness, produce less friction meaning, less stopping power. Again, we can't throw physics out the window. So the trade-off is that the additional stopping distance may circumstantially translate to additional wear.

If we are to completely ignore physics and say, "you can have a harder pad with less rotor wear," then it would be quite simple to develop a really hard pad... let's say 99% ceramics... that has great stopping power and provides significantly less wear on stock or run-of-the-mill density rotors. That trade-off... (that damned physics again...) says that yeah, you wouldn't wear much on the pad or the rotor... but minus the clamping force of tectonic fault line, you wouldn't stop either.

EDIT: Oh... I forgot to add a stupid meme at the end of my post...

...there we go. That really helps prove my point.
 




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