How many people warm up their Fiesta ST before driving?

[neeqness]

Your engine is going to reach operating temperature a lot quicker if you drive it rather than let it idle. It simply comes down to how much load is on the engine. Load creates heat. A engine is designed to work. Sure the ECU raises the idle speed for a number of reason, the main one is so the CAT reaches light-up temperature faster so it will function. The majority of engine wear occurs around the first 3-6 minutes of operation.
I have strip a couple of gasoline engines over the years where the thermostate has been removed. These engines are usually show very high piston and bore wear because of over cooling, quire often very uneven bore wear between the cylinders.

What Intuit said.

Since we are focusing on wear in the first few minutes of a cold start, I'd just like to add that a cold engine is typically a dry one. There has been plenty of time for the oil to drain into the oil pan. Oils typically have a different viscosity between cold and warm temperatures and their peak effectiveness is while warm.

Additionally loads at higher revs on a cold engine are more likely to cause additional wear than merely idling. The car warms up faster but during the time it is least optimally lubricated if it is driven while cold. Idling a car provides the least amount of load and stress on an engine. All things equal, it can not cause more wear than actually driving it, no matter how careful you are...again, if you are careful though the difference is fairly negligible. There is only a benefit to fuel economy (and emissions) if you choose to drive instead of idle.


Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Hijinx]

What Intuit said.

Since we are focusing on wear in the first few minutes of a cold start, I'd just like to add that a cold engine is typically a dry one. There has been plenty of time for the oil to drain into the oil pan. Oils typically have a different viscosity between cold and warm temperatures and their peak effectiveness is while warm.

Additionally loads at higher revs on a cold engine are more likely to cause additional wear than merely idling. The car warms up faster but during the time it is least optimally lubricated if it is driven while cold. Idling a car provides the least amount of load and stress on an engine. All things equal, it can not cause more wear than actually driving it, no matter how careful you are...again, if you are careful though the difference is fairly negligible. There is only a benefit to fuel economy (and emissions) if you choose to drive instead of idle.


Sent using Tapatalk

Cold engines aren't dry, though... There's still oil film...which can be washed away from the cylinder walls from excessive idling. Actually, it would be more accurate to say it can be washed away from overly rich AFRs.


Some Guy On The Internet

 

[neeqness]

Cold engines aren't dry, though... There's still oil film...which can be washed away from the cylinder walls from excessive idling. Actually, it would be more accurate to say it can be washed away from overly rich AFRs.


Some Guy On The Internet

Try running your engine on that "film" and see what happens... [emoji57]

Is it April Fool's Day or something because you must be joking already. Washed away? So idling cleans your motor now? Are you serious or what?

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Hijinx]

Try running your engine on that "film" and see what happens... [emoji57]

Sent using Tapatalk

Actually, when I first started driving and didn't know much, I had a 1993 Beretta. It consumed oil and had a slow leak, but no one had checked because the car mostly sat around. Well, I got a hold of it, and as dumb as I was, I never checked the oil. Drove it all summer before the engine seized up. When the engine was replaced, the oil pan was "dry."

I don't need your sarcasm. If you've got sound logic to teach me, do so, because I have knowledge that counters yours...common sense is usually wrong.


Some Guy On The Internet

 

[neeqness]

Not just common sense. I've taken courses in automechanics. Not sure how you came up with idling washes away anything as that is neither common sense nor anything from any textbook...

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[neeqness]

Actually, when I first started driving and didn't know much, I had a 1993 Beretta. It consumed oil and had a slow leak, but no one had checked because the car mostly sat around. Well, I got a hold of it, and as dumb as I was, I never checked the oil. Drove it all summer before the engine seized up. When the engine was replaced, the oil pan was "dry."

I don't need your sarcasm. If you've got sound logic to teach me, do so, because I have knowledge that counters yours...common sense is usually wrong.


Some Guy On The Internet

Some engines are designed to leak by a little oil which is burned in the chamber, others are not. My G35 was designed that way and it was noticeable because after so many miles it would wind up (a little) lower on oil. This was stated in the owners manual. Nothing alarming once you are aware of it and you tend to check more often than normal, but I usually just topped up during oil changes and by the next change it was always plenty left (though noticeably less).

This oil leaks by in the chamber under normal conditions whether idling or not. The leak by was very little and only noticeable over time. It also only occurred when the engine was running, not while the engine was turned off. It had nothing to do with warming up your engine while idling or driving it.

If your engine was not designed to leak by, then it had another problem.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Hijinx]

Try running your engine on that "film" and see what happens... [emoji57]

Is it April Fool's Day or something because you must be joking already. Washed away? So idling cleans your motor now? Are you serious or what?

Sent using Tapatalk

Yes... It's an early April Fools joke. Agree to disagree?


Some Guy On The Internet

 

[neeqness]

Yes... It's an early April Fools joke. Agree to disagree?


Some Guy On The Internet

Ok.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Quisp]

Exactly because what you said about earlier engines is entirely untrue. You can't start a cold carburetor engine without adjusting the choke valve. Fuel air mixture (which is the carburetors sole purpose) has very little to do with the oil and how well lubricated the engine is. The only exception is for motors that require oil mixed in with fuel, but none of these motors are used in automobiles.

Sent using Tapatalk

Saab 96 used oil mixed with fuel. A rich fuel air mix will definitely thin oil on cylinder walls.

 

[neeqness]

Saab 96 used oil mixed with fuel. A rich fuel air mix will definitely thin oil on cylinder walls.

So you are saying that Saab required premixing fuel with oil everytime you refill the gas tank?

 

[neeqness]

The air/fuel mixture does not affect the oil that is lubricating the engine if the engine is operating properly. The oil typically enters the cylinder from the bottom or sides of the cylinder walls below the piston rings and not in the combustion chamber. The fuel and air enter the combustion chamber at the top of the cylinder. The oil is under constant pressure. The combustion chamber has a variable pressure but the piston rings help keep them separate so that the oil doesn't flow into the combustion chamber. Everytime the piston rises fresh oil rises with it due to the constant oil pressure. The piston rings keep the oil from entering the combustion chamber and pull the oil back down with the piston each time that it drops. If any oil happens to leak by, it is burned with the fuel but if it is not burned cleanly, it can leave deposits in the combustion chamber. A rich air fuel mixture can also cause deposits if not burned cleanly, but has no real affect on the oil lubricating the cylinder behind the piston rings except perhaps to slowly dirty it over time (which will happen anyway with normal operation regardless of the fuel mixture).

 

[Hijinx]

One cannot fill a cup that is already full.

 

[Quisp]

So you are saying that Saab required premixing fuel with oil everytime you refill the gas tank?

Prezactly unless you bought the auto injection model.

 

[thePete]

^ yep. Just like rotaries.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

 

[neeqness]

Prezactly unless you bought the auto injection model.

I see. Interesting. Hadn't heard of this vehicle before. It seems the fuel for the engine in the US version didn't need to be mixed with oil though. It used a Ford engine that didn't require that.

Still though, our cars don't require fuel mixed with oil to run. The fuel/air mixture has little to do with the oil lubrication in our engines.

 

[Sekred]

Maybe this Saab was a 2 stroke,

 

[Theophilus]

I always do

Seems to run better when I let it warm up, but that is pretty much all placebo since I don't have any evidence lol

 

[BoostBumps]

Watching A Frozen Engine Warm Up With A Thermal Camera

Published on Jan 22, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1l_v5NbneM

[video=youtube;e1l_v5NbneM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1l_v5NbneM[/video]

In this video we?re going to be cold starting the engine of my 2016 Subaru Crosstrek, and using a thermal camera we?re going to watch the engine heat up. The ambient temperature is about negative 6 degrees Celsius or about 22 degrees Fahrenheit. As far as metrics we?ll be monitoring, we?ve got overlays of the engine RPM, which will run higher when the engine first starts to help warm things up. We also have throttle position, the coolant and intake air temperatures, the temperature of where the thermal camera is centered, and a timestamp so we know how long the engine has been running.

If it?s freezing outside and you don?t want to get in a frozen car, no one?s going to fault you for warming up the engine and making sure it?s comfortable inside, as well as making sure the windows are defrosted so you?re ready to roll. In my video I was purely discussing what?s happening from a mechanical standpoint when you let your engine sit and idle.

Oil can actually flow at very low temperatures. You may be freezing, but for certain viscosity grades cold temperatures aren?t a huge deal. For example, my Honda S2000 recommends a 10W-30 oil, and it only recommends going down to a thinner 5W grade oil if ambient temperatures drop below minus 20 degrees C. Minus 20 degrees C! And this is logical based on SAE cold temperature viscosity ratings.

For example, a 0W oil needs to be able to pump at -40 degrees C. A 5W oil needs to be able to pump at -35 degrees C. A 10W oil needs to be able to flow at -30 degrees C, and so on. Oil can do a decent job of protecting your engine even at low temperatures, as long as you?re not asking the engine for too much power. Try to keep the revs low, and be light on the throttle until the engine is warmed up. Getting up to higher vehicle speeds is fine, as long as your acceleration is gentle and steady, and you?re mindful of your engine RPM. Source: http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-t...

Now inevitably someone in the comments is going to say they live in an area with negative 40 degrees C temps and they always warm there car up for several minutes before taking off. A couple of things to note here: first, that?s obviously super cold, and I can?t blame you for wanting the interior to be warm. Second, make sure you?re using a viscosity grade that can flow in these conditions. 0W is designed for this. Third, with temperatures this low, it?s a good idea to get an electric engine block heater so your engine won?t have to strain so hard to get oil flowing throughout.

At about 5 minutes and 20 seconds, when the coolant temperature reaches 50 degrees C, you?ll notice the engine RPM starts to significantly drop, eventually getting down to 800 RPM when the coolant reaches 60 degrees C.

 

[Intuit]

During winter, I warm up my car until my accessport reads my oil temp is 20?C (68?F).
Not sure if that is considered excessive, and no particular reason why I wait for that number.

If it's cold in the morning in the negatives, it can be like a 5 min wait though..

Perhaps you heard or read this as being the minimum temperature it needed for closed loop operation ?

Published on Jan 22, 2017

In this video we?re going to be cold starting the engine of my 2016 Subaru Crosstrek, and using a thermal camera we?re going to watch the engine heat up. The ambient temperature is about negative 6 degrees Celsius or about 22 degrees Fahrenheit. As far as metrics we?ll be monitoring, we?ve got overlays of the engine RPM, which will run higher when the engine first starts to help warm things up. We also have throttle position, the coolant and intake air temperatures, the temperature of where the thermal camera is centered, and a timestamp so we know how long the engine has been running.

If it?s freezing outside and you don?t want to get in a frozen car, no one?s going to fault you for warming up the engine and making sure it?s comfortable inside, as well as making sure the windows are defrosted so you?re ready to roll. In my video I was purely discussing what?s happening from a mechanical standpoint when you let your engine sit and idle.

Oil can actually flow at very low temperatures. You may be freezing, but for certain viscosity grades cold temperatures aren?t a huge deal. For example, my Honda S2000 recommends a 10W-30 oil, and it only recommends going down to a thinner 5W grade oil if ambient temperatures drop below minus 20 degrees C. Minus 20 degrees C! And this is logical based on SAE cold temperature viscosity ratings.

For example, a 0W oil needs to be able to pump at -40 degrees C. A 5W oil needs to be able to pump at -35 degrees C. A 10W oil needs to be able to flow at -30 degrees C, and so on. Oil can do a decent job of protecting your engine even at low temperatures, as long as you?re not asking the engine for too much power. Try to keep the revs low, and be light on the throttle until the engine is warmed up. Getting up to higher vehicle speeds is fine, as long as your acceleration is gentle and steady, and you?re mindful of your engine RPM. Source:

Now inevitably someone in the comments is going to say they live in an area with negative 40 degrees C temps and they always warm there car up for several minutes before taking off. A couple of things to note here: first, that?s obviously super cold, and I can?t blame you for wanting the interior to be warm. Second, make sure you?re using a viscosity grade that can flow in these conditions. 0W is designed for this. Third, with temperatures this low, it?s a good idea to get an electric engine block heater so your engine won?t have to strain so hard to get oil flowing throughout.

At about 5 minutes and 20 seconds, when the coolant temperature reaches 50 degrees C, you?ll notice the engine RPM starts to significantly drop, eventually getting down to 800 RPM when the coolant reaches 60 degrees C.

40C is 104F
50C is 122F
60C is 140F

My motorcycle digital readout starts at 106F. If it's really cold out and I on ease out the temp will actually drop for twenty seconds to a minute before climbing again. With 13.1/1 compression ratio I suspect the ECU is just trying to protect the engine by pulling massive timing, but can feel the power dramatically fall dramatically flat if I try to get on it with lower engine temps. (no miss)

I don't remember it being cold out, (and I hate cold,) but I've run an engine with the valve cover off. On 5w-30 dino-oil, there really was a massive difference in rocker-splash when run from a cold start versus warm. Idling warm, splash/fling, splash/fling all over the place. From a cold start... not much at all. Time may be as significant a factor as temperature. A video would've been nice... if I hadn't sold the vehicle over rust issues.

I wouldn't be doing donuts at 104F (time factor) but agree that it is perfectly fine to be driving at the temps mentioned.

For part of the time that I drove on the bad thermostat housing, the engine would actually drop far enough to reenter open loop management mode in single-digit temps. Stood still long enough and it would reenter closed loop. Kind of interesting; and because of the operating time factor, lubrication wasn't of any concern.

 

[silverblueBP]

You can't start a cold carburetor engine without adjusting the choke valve.

Sent using Tapatalk

Be careful about absolutes. I can go out right now and start my carb'd 289 without any choke.