Stay in gear when stopping?

[iso100]

Regarding it being illegal to coast in neutral: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/17334

 

[rodmoe]

Wisconsin

Wisconsin statutes don't have any laws about being in neutral.

We are such a lawless state .. good for hypermileing

 

[Hijinx]

Initial tip in is going to be rich, but that's but a fraction of a moment. On a blip the fuel cut off should outweighs that.

 

[iso100]

I have watched the Afr on my accessport. It takes the better part of a second to go back to the 40:1 range after throttle input when coasting in gear. Any tiny input and its back to ~ 14.5.

 

[rodmoe]

I have watched the Afr on my accessport. It takes the better part of a second to go back to the 40:1 range after throttle input when coasting in gear. Any tiny input and its back to ~ 14.5.

Speaking of AFR and a tad off topic what are you reading in the upper rpm range before shift.. I am seeing 11.61 when doing a pull in forth gear at around 6400 rpm

 

[iso100]

Hmm. To be honest I haven't looked at it while driving hard. Did you watch the gauge or was that a log? Rich is better than lean, that's for sure! (Unless super rich and then even that can cause detonation)

 

[rodmoe]

It was a data log as I drive to drive when going that kinda fast..

 

[iso100]

I'll run a log and let you know.

 

[Hijinx]

I have watched the Afr on my accessport. It takes the better part of a second to go back to the 40:1 range after throttle input when coasting in gear. Any tiny input and its back to ~ 14.5.

I don't have any experience with the AP reading on this car, but I'm willing to bet it's just slow. A dedicated AFR gauge and wideband o2 like an AEM UEGO will provide a much faster reading.

 

[rodmoe]

I don't have any experience with the AP reading on this car, but I'm willing to bet it's just slow. A dedicated AFR gauge and wideband o2 like an AEM UEGO will provide a much faster reading.

True it does have to be processed and then displayed .. Not like shifting into gear as you roll up to a stop like that we are now back on topic LOL

 

[Shmi]

Blipping the throttle to use more fuel than idling...

You don't absolutely have to blip throttle to downshift though.

Anyhow to reply to OP, I don't downshift to save fuel I downshift to stay in the appropriate gear for the speed I'm travelling, or occasionally to slow down by engine braking, but, yes, if the momentum of the car is driving the wheels and turning the engine by being in gear, there's no point in fueling the engine so it makes sense it would cut fuel flow.

 

[Kurcha]

When coming to a stop, I'd rather wear my brakes than the transmission...push the clutch in, use the brakes...why would you use the engine to stop the car?....brakes are cheap...I must live in alternate universe...I am sighing

+1

Agree 100% I prefer to use a little more fuel and save my clutch.
I used to use the engine to brake back in the day until someone pointed out that replacing the brakes was generally cheaper and faster than replacing the clutch. Ever since it's brakes only. I leave the car in neutral and use the parking brake in every car I own every single time.

 

[Hijinx]

+1

Agree 100% I prefer to use a little more fuel and save my clutch.
I used to use the engine to brake back in the day until someone pointed out that replacing the brakes was generally cheaper and faster than replacing the clutch. Ever since it's brakes only. I leave the car in neutral and use the parking brake in every car I own every single time.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Kurcha]

Ignorance is bliss.

Would you care to enlighten smarty pants?

 

[Hijinx]

I believe I did once already.

 

[a10thunder]

People keep dwelling on saving brakes as the primary reason to engine brake. Saving brake pad wear is a small side benefit to engine braking. It would be like eating less to lose weight, you may save a little money as a side benefit to buying less food.

Your transmission is designed to handle up and down shifts. Engine braking does not cause extra wear on your clutch. Downshifting to slow down is just a normal part of driving a manual transmission.

If people are really concerned about clutch wear and don't mind wasting gas, why not just shift from 2nd to 6th when accelerating? Skipping 3 gears will really save your clutch.

 

[kvetcha]

I will typically engine break until around 20mph/the engine is turning just below 1000rpm, then release clutch and use brakes the rest of the way.

 

[dyn085]

When coming to a stop, I'd rather wear my brakes than the transmission...push the clutch in, use the brakes...why would you use the engine to stop the car?....brakes are cheap...I must live in alternate universe...I am sighing

In that case you're going about out all wrong because holding the clutch in will increase wear on the throwout bearing. I'm sure that a large portion of clutch replacements are due to worn throwout bearings due to this kind of abuse. I've seen quite a few good clutches thrown out because someone had to drop the transmission to replace the bearing first and it just makes sense to change both if either one goes out.

Engine braking is a basic skill for driving manual transmissions. The clutch has synchros that are designed to handle this. As long as you don't downshift from near redline and cause over rev... even then, you're not stressing out the clutch, just potential massive damage to the engine itself.

The fact that Ford is recommending this means there is no harm in engine braking. All the hardware is designed to handle up and downshifts. There is nothing but positive benefits to downshifting when slowing down. You will see around 10% in fuel economy savings compared to just coasting in neutral.

The FiST is very easy to downshift in. Many manual transmissions require careful rev matching (even with synchros) to do a smooth downshift.

Exactly this.

As had been stated, the main point of down-shifting has always been to keep the vehicle in a good rpm range in order to utilize the engines power in the case of an emergency. The one time that you could have avoided an accident by being in the proper gear but couldn't because you weren't will cost much more than a brake or clutch replacement.

 

[kvetcha]

In that case you're going about out all wrong because holding the clutch in well increase wear on the throwout bearing. I'm sure that a large portion of clutch replacements are due to worn throwout bearings due to this kind of abuse. I've seen quite a few good clutches thrown out because someone had to drop the transmission to replace the bearing first and it just makes sense to change both if either one goes out.



Exactly this.

As had been stated, the main point of down-shifting has always been to keep the vehicle in a good rpm range in order to utilize the engines power in the case of an emergency. The one time that you could have avoided an accident by being in the proper gear but couldn't because you weren't will cost much more than a brake or clutch replacement.

I was just about to say this. It's a safety issue, not a wear issue.

 

[Kurcha]

I believe I did once already.

See, when you explain your point of view, not only you teach someone something new, but may even get them to adopt safer or better driving techniques.
To just go about and call someone ignorant just because they drive in a way different than yours is rude, not everyone is trained to drive manual transmission and if you are going to dismiss someone as IGNORANT and not care to elaborate, you might as well keep it to yourself.

I became a member of this forum to learn and share. Luckily for me, not everyone writes like you.

I am happy to own this car! I have driven from Ney Jersey to the border of Guatemala mostly manual transmission and have used the engine to keep speed in mountainous roads, I just currently not use the engine to brake in flat Texas, I do keep proper gear when driving even when decelerating.

When you are going to have the nerve to point out ignorance you should also take the time to explain AGAIN why you believe the comment is ignorant.

I am lucky that most members care to explain and share their experience.

Enjoy your day bully!