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With even a Cobb stage 1 making so much more low end and fun to drive, what's the catch?

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danbfree

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Thread Starter #21
I always wondered if the stock tune has to take in consideration the different octane levels the driver might use. While a basic tune can set a specific octane level or fuel type, as well as the reason mentioned above.
So yes, of course, as far as the basic question: it has to be able to run on everything from 87-93 from the factory... so that said, is there benefits to being able to focus on a single octane type with an aftermarket tune, is there more memory left for better fine tuning for one octane instead of having to be able to adjust across a range? I kind of doubt it, working at Intel on pre-production computers I know that basic programming can call for a simple range table... But after hearing all the replies in here, I think Ford made a decision to keep the very low torque tamed for warranty and driveability purposes although I find the instant torque from the blunt 93 Cobb OTS stage 1 to be quite livable as my daily... But good question man, maybe some of the more hardcore tuner dudes can give more input...
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #22
Well, I have had my Stratfied tune for a day and I'm actually not sure I like how sensitive the throttle is, but love the power. It literally wants to take off like a race car, but also bogs at low RPM's more too, it's not super easy it is to drive in traffic. Don't get me wrong, it's not dangerous but requires quite a bit of focus to drive smoothly. This is on 93 tune, I'll drop down to 91 just to see if there's much difference, but I'm also going to give it a few days to see if it or I adapt/adjust more... I actually might go back to Cobb for my casual driving and break that one out for certain occasions, takes only 5 minutes to flash. Their fine tuned version of Cobb's traction control does work well, but I'm only a stage 1 car.
 


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#23
Well, I have had my Stratfied tune for a day and I'm actually not sure I like how sensitive the throttle is, but love the power. It literally wants to take off like a race car, but also bogs at low RPM's more too, it's not super easy it is to drive in traffic. Don't get me wrong, it's not dangerous but requires quite a bit of focus to drive smoothly. This is on 93 tune, I'll drop down to 91 just to see if there's much difference, but I'm also going to give it a few days to see if it or I adapt/adjust more... I actually might go back to Cobb for my casual driving and break that one out for certain occasions, takes only 5 minutes to flash. Their fine tuned version of Cobb's traction control does work well, but I'm only a stage 1 car.
Care to explain the bogging a little more? With my 93 strat tune I actually noticed LESS bogging during around town driving. I down shift less because the low end is so much fatter with the strat tune. As far as the throttle being more sensitive, i think you're just noticing how fast the turbo lights off now with the added timing down low. Overall my car is just better/easier to drive with the strat tune.
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #24
Care to explain the bogging a little more? With my 93 strat tune I actually noticed LESS bogging during around town driving. I down shift less because the low end is so much fatter with the strat tune. As far as the throttle being more sensitive, i think you're just noticing how fast the turbo lights off now with the added timing down low. Overall my car is just better/easier to drive with the strat tune.
OK, just tried the 91 for my morning commute and wow, it DEFINITELY is more "driveable", so at least what Alex sent me the 93 tune is ultra aggressive with throttle response and the 91 gets great power but seems far more driveable down low.... Perhaps when you order both 91 and 93 they set them up differently like that: 91, good power but also less all-out throttle response down low and 93 is all-out throttle sensitivity and upper-end... Otherwise I really can't explain it, but yes, the 93 seemed to bog at "low speed rolling through a stop in 2nd" type situation, but then when it hits, holy crap hold on... Hopefully this makes more sense, i'm just as surprised as anyone in the difference between the tunes... One thing I can say is that it was quite warm yesterday, but not that hot yet when I experienced the low-end bogging, about 75... This morning, MUCH cooler and starting to rain, switching to the 91 the cooler dense air should have made the power hit even sooner, but it was much more civilized... So if I had to summarize, the 93 is more like flat out race mode and 91 is more like daily driving mode... I definitely didn't expect the difference to be so pronounced, I even had them put 93 in slot 1, low boost 2, and 91 at slot 3 as I thought I'd only use 91 when I drive down to Cali.
 


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#25
Well, I have had my Stratfied tune for a day and I'm actually not sure I like how sensitive the throttle is, but love the power. It literally wants to take off like a race car, but also bogs at low RPM's more too, it's not super easy it is to drive in traffic. Don't get me wrong, it's not dangerous but requires quite a bit of focus to drive smoothly. This is on 93 tune, I'll drop down to 91 just to see if there's much difference, but I'm also going to give it a few days to see if it or I adapt/adjust more... I actually might go back to Cobb for my casual driving and break that one out for certain occasions, takes only 5 minutes to flash. Their fine tuned version of Cobb's traction control does work well, but I'm only a stage 1 car.
hmm I'm waiting on an AP from Stratified. Did you go with Linear or Aggressive throttling?
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #26
hmm I'm waiting on an AP from Stratified. Did you go with Linear or Aggressive throttling?
Even linear feels a little aggressive, at least how he adds timing so it kind of accelerates on you while maintaining the same light throttle. Also, he sets target boost a little too high (26.25 on pump) when you will get the same 23-24 psi through the power range anyway. My Dizzy tune with a 24.75 psi max target boost makes even a little more power and also doesn't fall so flat on it's face up high and is much smoother down low. Pro's are that he does have the radiator fans come on a little sooner so thermal control is definitely a bit better and seems to make some great sounds even without pops and crackles option having a glasspack.
 


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#27
Well, I have had my Stratfied tune for a day and I'm actually not sure I like how sensitive the throttle is, but love the power. It literally wants to take off like a race car, but also bogs at low RPM's more too, it's not super easy it is to drive in traffic. Don't get me wrong, it's not dangerous but requires quite a bit of focus to drive smoothly. This is on 93 tune, I'll drop down to 91 just to see if there's much difference, but I'm also going to give it a few days to see if it or I adapt/adjust more... I actually might go back to Cobb for my casual driving and break that one out for certain occasions, takes only 5 minutes to flash. Their fine tuned version of Cobb's traction control does work well, but I'm only a stage 1 car.
I just got my stratified tune today so I'll be interested to see what you mean. I've been running Dizzy's flash tune Stage 2 on my DD and it still feels easy to drive, but the power kicks in when you get on it.

Consensus seems to be stratified is faster but more touchy it seems, even with linear mapping.
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #28
I just got my stratified tune today so I'll be interested to see what you mean. I've been running Dizzy's flash tune Stage 2 on my DD and it still feels easy to drive, but the power kicks in when you get on it.

Consensus seems to be stratified is faster but more touchy it seems, even with linear mapping.
Wow, that's an old post you replied to, LOL... see my last post above, I still strongly prefer Dizzy overall, as Stratified is definitely more touchy and I proved in other posts of mine using vDyno in identical conditions that Dizzy actually makes a little more power but Stratified sounds faster. I may have Jason start the fans up a touch sooner on my Dizzy, as the Stratified definitely runs a little cooler too, but I may need to compare some logs to see if maybe Alex also runs his tune a bit richer at idle, I dunno.
 


Spork1569

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#29
Wow, that's an old post you replied to, LOL... see my last post above, I still strongly prefer Dizzy overall, as Stratified is definitely more touchy and I proved in other posts of mine using vDyno in identical conditions that Dizzy actually makes a little more power but Stratified sounds faster. I may have Jason start the fans up a touch sooner on my Dizzy, as the Stratified definitely runs a little cooler too, but I may need to compare some logs to see if maybe Alex also runs his tune a bit richer at idle, I dunno.
Sorry may have taken me to the wrong page when I opened up the thread lol.

I'm excited to see the difference between the two but I'm really liking the Dizzy tune, may get a custom tune a little further down the line from him.

Somewhat debating if e30 is worth the hassle as there's only one station near me and my car is more commuter than canyon carver, so while the power is nice the mileage may not be.
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #30
Sorry may have taken me to the wrong page when I opened up the thread lol.

I'm excited to see the difference between the two but I'm really liking the Dizzy tune, may get a custom tune a little further down the line from him.

Somewhat debating if e30 is worth the hassle as there's only one station near me and my car is more commuter than canyon carver, so while the power is nice the mileage may not be.
I only have one e85 station around too, about 30 minutes out of the way each way and it costs just as much as premium here... Still get down there as much as possible :D e30 is just a whole other animal! I'm assuming you got the e30 for free on the Dizzy special but haven't bothered trying it yet? It's just fantastic, makes the car really come alive, another full step above a pump tune is over a stock tune. Mileage hit is only 10% and I know e85 is super cheap in Cali so you are MORE than making up for it when you are paying about 15% less to fill up. Use an extra gallon of e85 if you want to as well, I've confirmed with Jason that his fuel map will handle up to e50.
 


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#31
Even linear feels a little aggressive, at least how he adds timing so it kind of accelerates on you while maintaining the same light throttle. Also, he sets target boost a little too high (26.25 on pump) when you will get the same 23-24 psi through the power range anyway. My Dizzy tune with a 24.75 psi max target boost makes even a little more power and also doesn't fall so flat on it's face up high and is much smoother down low. Pro's are that he does have the radiator fans come on a little sooner so thermal control is definitely a bit better and seems to make some great sounds even without pops and crackles option having a glasspack.
Alright, hopefully I can handle that or get used to it as an avg driver lol I'm sure it'll be fun. I noticed the car likes to accelerate itself a wee bitwhen I shift to 2nd gear even when my foot's not on the gas...have you noticed that?

My fusion had some quirks like a studder if I went exactly 45mph or 70mph but can't complain because it was a great car otherwise
 


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#32
I only have one e85 station around too, about 30 minutes out of the way each way and it costs just as much as premium here... Still get down there as much as possible :D e30 is just a whole other animal! I'm assuming you got the e30 for free on the Dizzy special but haven't bothered trying it yet? It's just fantastic, makes the car really come alive, another full step above a pump tune is over a stock tune. Mileage hit is only 10% and I know e85 is super cheap in Cali so you are MORE than making up for it when you are paying about 15% less to fill up. Use an extra gallon of e85 if you want to as well, I've confirmed with Jason that his fuel map will handle up to e50.
Guess I'll have to give it a go sometime then. I didn't buy it during a buy one get one free sale unfortunately though sadly.
 


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Thread Starter #33
Alright, hopefully I can handle that or get used to it as an avg driver lol I'm sure it'll be fun. I noticed the car likes to accelerate itself a wee bitwhen I shift to 2nd gear even when my foot's not on the gas...have you noticed that?

My fusion had some quirks like a studder if I went exactly 45mph or 70mph but can't complain because it was a great car otherwise
Like rev LIFT when you go to shift? Yup, Alex had to work for months on that and finally got mine fixed like 2 weeks ago... Dude is super knowledgeable and a good guy. I just honestly prefer my Dizzy far more still...
 


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Thread Starter #34
Guess I'll have to give it a go sometime then. I didn't buy it during a buy one get one free sale unfortunately though sadly.
Ah, damn... well, what's funny was I had it for a couple of months but never bothered trying it until one day I was accidentally pumped Regular in my no self serve state.. Once I saw my numbers bombing out, I pulled over and flashed to Stage 0 and went home... So I emailed Jason and explained the situation and he told me to add 4 gallons of e85, as soon as there was room, and run his e30 tune. Holy crap, was I convinced! Now, he can't recommend that mix publicly, but the deal is that mix came out to 96 octane and that is mor than enough to max out the stock turbo, especially when the other half of the equation is the cooling effect of ethanol, outside it's fuel octane... Anyway, I try to run it as much as possible now... I was even given a free e50 custom tune by Pwnall for helping him do revisions to the point he can sell it as a flash tune. Of course, e30 already maxes out the stick turbo, but e50 makes for easier mixing, is even cheaper to fill up for you Cali guys ($2.19 for e85 vs. $3.99 a gallon for poor 91 visiting Sacramento last week) and mileage ony drops a tiny bit more than my e30 tune also. Anyway, I had to fill up on pump and want to go back to ethanol as soon as possible, it will be easier to burn off only 3 gallons and use my e30 tune than to burn off half a tank on pump before using my e50 tune, hehehe :)
 


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#35
An interesting read as I am someone about to order an AP. I will be doing a Strat flash tune and AP ordered through them as it's a deal. Basically $550 AP cost with their flash tune thrown in.

I need 91 sadly but I also have 3-4 different E30 pumps around town for down the road. I have tried to read as much as I can and I think Tune+ is going to be my guy down the road but if I can run a Strat flash tune for free with the cost of the AP in the interim/winter I will do that vs the Cobb OTS stuff.
 


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#36
I think I can handle a more "jumpy" or aggressive throttle map if that is what it is based on the other shit I drive. IMO it's all about what you get used to. If it sucks or is too much of PITA daily I am out basically nothing to go back to a OTS tune or even stock.
 


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Right, so what's the catch with these tunes? I know that ford's stated HP and TQ numbers is a little underrated stock, but even the Cobb OTS Stage 1 adds a ton of usable low-end... I'm not sure why the small stock turbo isn't used to it's advantage like this from the factory...
Manufacturers tune for a flat torque curve because this is predictable and not peaky which makes it safe. The tunes simply try to give all the power possible whenever possible ignoring emssions, comfort, etc.

it's all very logical when you think about it.
 


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Thread Starter #38
Manufacturers tune for a flat torque curve because this is predictable and not peaky which makes it safe. The tunes simply try to give all the power possible whenever possible ignoring emssions, comfort, etc.

it's all very logical when you think about it.
I made this thread 16 months ago and was recently revived but I've learned TONS about tunes since... besides, Ford truncates the torque for traction in 1st-2nd gear but also overall for warranty and drivetrain longevity purposes. I mean, even good tunes will truncate the torque a bit in 1st and 2nd gear to help you hook up but then it's fully tuned torque from 3rd onward
 


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#39
Power and torque are limited because:

1 this will allow more average drivers to drive a car that feels balanced - not everyone wants the crazy torque

2 less wear and tear on engine mounts, etc. therefore less warranty costs for Ford

3 turning up the torque means more torque steer which is not a good thing especially for the general public to have to deal with

They factory tuned the car where it is at a balanced, sedate, user-friendly spot which was a smart move in my opinion. Then it’s up to crazy people like ourselves to modify it to our taste.
 


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#40
An interesting read as I am someone about to order an AP. I will be doing a Strat flash tune and AP ordered through them as it's a deal. Basically $550 AP cost with their flash tune thrown in.

I need 91 sadly but I also have 3-4 different E30 pumps around town for down the road. I have tried to read as much as I can and I think Tune+ is going to be my guy down the road but if I can run a Strat flash tune for free with the cost of the AP in the interim/winter I will do that vs the Cobb OTS stuff.
I was thinking about doing that too in the future. I like the fact that Stratified and Dizzy update their tune versions from time to time. You pay for their R&D, which is a good thing. I’m not sure if Cobb Stage 1 tune gets updated as often or at all.
 


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