With even a Cobb stage 1 making so much more low end and fun to drive, what's the catch?

[danbfree]

To further clarify, I just don't understand why the stock tune isn't more like this... I have lost zero daily drivability, same MPG's, same amounts of torque steer once the midrange power kicks in, but SO much more fun to drive! So what's the catch? Will the drivetrain suffer breakdowns sooner? I can understand Ford not doing things like the flat foot shifting, but if other cars can have launch control and similar/better traction control that Cobb does (and Stratified refines further), I just don't understand why Ford cripples this car so much from the factory... I'm hoping someone will tell me it's just cost and emissions reasons, but definitely open to hearing thoughts on this, TIA!

 

[Sakel]

Form what I understand, the euro st200 is pretty much the same as the us fiesta stock.

 

[danbfree]

Form what I understand, the euro st200 is pretty much the same as the us fiesta stock.

Right, so what's the catch with these tunes? I know that ford's stated HP and TQ numbers is a little underrated stock, but even the Cobb OTS Stage 1 adds a ton of usable low-end... I'm not sure why the small stock turbo isn't used to it's advantage like this from the factory...

 

[Sakel]

The mountune st215 package is an accesport and filter and does not even viod your warranty. If it is that simple imo it should be stock.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

To further clarify, I just don't understand why the stock tune isn't more like this... I have lost zero daily drivability, same MPG's, same amounts of torque steer once the midrange power kicks in, but SO much more fun to drive! So what's the catch? Will the drivetrain suffer breakdowns sooner? I can understand Ford not doing things like the flat foot shifting, but if other cars can have launch control and similar/better traction control that Cobb does (and Stratified refines further), I just don't understand why Ford cripples this car so much from the factory... I'm hoping someone will tell me it's just cost and emissions reasons, but definitely open to hearing thoughts on this, TIA!

It's because Cobb and other tuners are able to allocate all their resources (time/money) developing a tune.

Our cars are pretty solid basically being a 'parts car' taking from the focus st. Besides some leaky axle seals, our powertrains are pretty reliable even at hybrid turbo power levels. Even the stock clutch will hold (same clutch as FoST).

Ford has to deal with emmissions, EPA mpg fleet averages, budgets, production deadlines, compromises between NVH/smoothness vs performance. Ford had to design the entire car. Each individual part can probably be made better, but the cost/benefit ratio scales are drastically different when we're talking about mass producing a car. A $500 upgrade multiplied by 20,000 vehicles a year translates to $10,000,000 additional costs not including testing and re-tooling production lines.

If you think the Cobb OTS tune is solid, try a custom 'canned' tune from one of the vendors. Close to double the gains.

Edit: because I can't do math

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[M0LTEN]

Some bean counter somewhere wants to keep things warranty safe.
I am sure that i am giving up some amount of reliability to be able to run 28psi.
Besides they can't have the lower model Fiesta ST outperforming the Focus ST.

 

[danbfree]

It's because Cobb and other tuners are able to allocate all their resources (time/money) developing a tune.

Our cars are pretty solid basically being a 'parts car' taking from the focus st. Besides some leaky axle seals, our powertrains are pretty reliable even at hybrid turbo power levels. Even the stock clutch will hold (same clutch as FoST).

Ford has to deal with emmissions, EPA mpg fleet averages, budgets, production deadlines, compromises between NVH/smoothness vs performance. Ford had to design the entire car. Each individual part can probably be made better, but the cost/benefit ratio scales are drastically different when we're talking about mass producing a car. A $500 upgrade multiplied by 20,000 vehicles a year translates to $2,000,000 additional costs not including testing and re-tooling production lines.

If you think the Cobb OTS tune is solid, try a custom 'canned' tune from one of the vendors. Close to double the gains.

You are quoting everything I thought I knew as well, it only makes wonder even MORE why they leave so much low-end torque on the table when it's clearly the biggest strength of the small stock turbo. How much more would it cost them to simply tune like that from the factory if all the other hardware factors are so sturdy? Also, I definitely was intending to get a Mountune or Stratified AP with their tunes on it new, but a used one in like new condition, with no other tunes, came up and I couldn't resist... I've even seen the dyno charts of those tunes as well, but like many people, just didn't realize how much usable low-end torque is made with the Cobb tune, even if it's only 5 more HP on top. I doubt the torque gains are double but yes I definitely am tempted by the more high end power gains from those other tunes as well...

 

[danbfree]

The mountune st215 package is an accesport and filter and does not even good your warranty. If it is that simple imo it should be stock.

Right, I agree, I think the Mountune MP215 warranty friendly AP is probably very similar to Cobb stage 1, but is completely locked from adding other tunes to it... but others below I think are right: Bean counters for the slight inclreased warranty costs, and don't want to compete too much with the FoST, even though many people don't want a car this small anyway... hmmm.

 

[danbfree]

Some bean counter somewhere wants to keep things warranty safe.
I am sure that i am giving up some amount of reliability to be able to run 28psi.
Besides they can't have the lower model Fiesta ST outperforming the Focus ST.

I totally agree on some bean counter worried about added warranty costs, even if it does expire at a very average 60k... But, stage 1 doesn't really increase boost much at all, or so I thought... It targets 20.5 although I spike to nearly 23 at times, but does REALLY help the low-end. Isn't stock boost pretty close to 20psi max? Also, maybe since I'm running the 93 tune, which Cobb admits is less rich and more aggressive, that I'm simply seeing the full benefits from it... But also, even with this low-end torque, it's still slower and smaller than the FoST, so I doubt that it would affect sales or anything...

 

[M0LTEN]

Ford probably set this car up to run 200k trouble free miles, motor,trans and turbo. With the proper maintenance.
Each time I up the anty/boost/hp/torque I probably take some of that away.
Stock the boost is 14 psi with an overboost of 21psi for 10 seconds in certain gears.
You think its good now wait until you get a canned tune or go to stage 3, hang on to the steering wheel.
I am sure one day I will go with a Hybrid but for now I am loving it.

 

[Ford ST]

From what I understand from a YouTube video I watched first gear the Boost is cut in half, and second gear the Boost is cut by a third on the stock tune to prevent wheel spin.

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[danbfree]

Ford probably set this car up to run 200k trouble free miles, motor,trans and turbo. With the proper maintenance.
Each time I up the anty/boost/hp/torque I probably take some of that away.
Stock the boost is 14 psi with an overboost of 21psi for 10 seconds in certain gears.
You think its good now wait until you get a canned tune or go to stage 3, hang on to the steering wheel.
I am sure one day I will go with a Hybrid but for now I am loving it.

OK, so this makes more sense... the Cobb stage 1 simply gives overboost all the time, including 1st and 2nd, as it's main function... I guess it comes down to warranty and longevity beyond that, but still not sure why they just couldn't allow overboost in every gear, with the same 20 second max, but I guess letting it hit it's full boost all the time must simply cause just a little more wear and tear that they don't want to deal with... But makes me wonder if they did do that if they would have gotten even more rave reviews but at a certain point maybe it would poach sales from the FoST if it was that satisfying to begin with.,, Also, may I ask, did you get Stratified to tune specifically for your Transformer? Isn't it normally a no-no to stack like that?

 

[danbfree]

From what I understand from a YouTube video I watched first gear the Boost is cut in half, and second gear the Boost is cut by a third on the stock tune to prevent wheel spin.

Yes, definitely aware of the boost cut in first 2 gears, but it doesn't really make sense as there seems to be the same level of torque steer once it hits it's mid-band power anyway with no additional wheel spin unless you really push it... Oh well, I'll just enjoy the fact that I feel I really got my money's worth with all the Cobb stage 1 does, and maybe look at going Stratified in the near future.

 

[Speedboosted]

Some bean counter somewhere wants to keep things warranty safe.
I am sure that i am giving up some amount of reliability to be able to run 28psi.
Besides they can't have the lower model Fiesta ST outperforming the Focus ST.

Your Stratified tune makes 28 psi? I know it's only in the mid range, but damn. Mine does 25 and I have people telling me that's more than they get.

 

[M0LTEN]

The stratified is around 25-26 psi depending on all the conditions at that time. Turbo Transformer adds 2 psi on top of Stratified tune.
I don't see 28 to often and when I do it is for a couple of seconds. I listed it in my mods when I purchased the tune but I am not sure they
adjusted for it or not.

Either way I am not to worried about it. If this turbo goes boom, so be it. I will gladly put a bigger one in.

I am definitely keeping an eye on the latest person to offer a 300whp turbo for under $1k.
I would settle for 250-280 whp for that price point.

 

[XR650R]

Form what I understand, the euro st200 is pretty much the same as the us fiesta stock.

No. The EU FiST has the same power as the US. They just don't include the temporary power from the overboost in their specs.

The 200 is very close to the mountune MP215, right down to the airbox.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ford-fiesta-st200-first-drive-review

 

[apex1]

I routinely hit 26+ psi with my Stratified E30 tune (we have 93 octane gas here in Ohio). With no LSD, my car has tons of torque steer and wheelspin. On wet roads, I can break the wheels loose in 3rd gear. I don't mind it because I'm used to it, and I know it is coming. In addition to all the valid longevity, emissions and warranty issues discussed above, I don't think Ford could sell a new car that behaves like this.

 

[danbfree]

The stratified is around 25-26 psi depending on all the conditions at that time. Turbo Transformer adds 2 psi on top of Stratified tune.
I don't see 28 to often and when I do it is for a couple of seconds. I listed it in my mods when I purchased the tune but I am not sure they
adjusted for it or not.

Either way I am not to worried about it. If this turbo goes boom, so be it. I will gladly put a bigger one in.

I am definitely keeping an eye on the latest person to offer a 300whp turbo for under $1k.
I would settle for 250-280 whp for that price point.

That's what I'm talking about, I'd love to get just 250whp by having some more top end, but all the kits seems to aim for 300+...

 

[danbfree]

I routinely hit 26+ psi with my Stratified E30 tune (we have 93 octane gas here in Ohio). With no LSD, my car has tons of torque steer and wheelspin. On wet roads, I can break the wheels loose in 3rd gear. I don't mind it because I'm used to it, and I know it is coming. In addition to all the valid longevity, emissions and warranty issues discussed above, I don't think Ford could sell a new car that behaves like this.

Sure, with e30, I'm sure you get tons of power and torques steer! But, it seems the low-end torque punch from a 93 Cobb OTS tune is fun and very manageable, it doesn't give much more mid to upper end, just takes advantage of the small turbo natural strength of generating low-end.

 

[Jking]

I always wondered if the stock tune has to take in consideration the different octane levels the driver might use. While a basic tune can set a specific octane level or fuel type, as well as the reason mentioned above.