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Educate me about summer and winter tires

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Near Knoxville
#1
My FiST is the first car I’ve owned with summer tires. I've read, and heard, that I shouldn’t use them under 45 degrees. I've thought of buying a set of these: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...utoYear=2017&autoModel=Fiesta ST&autoModClar=, and mounting them on the factory rims. What do you do? Change tires on the factory rims or buy some steel wheels with winter tires? We normally have 3-4 light snows a year, and I didn’t have any problems with my last two cars, a fit and a Jetta. What else do I need to know?

Thanks.
 


Truth in Ruin

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#2
I use Nitto Neogen for my all season tire. They’re a little bit cheaper than the ones you’re looking at, but they’re pretty grippy for what they are (280 tread-wear). I’m not saying the Nitto Neogen are better, or worse, just throwing out opinions.
 


Ford ST

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#3
It's recommended not to drive summer Tires below 40 degrees personally I would never drive on them below 32. The issue is besides the poor traction when they're cold, you can actually crack the tire. If you want to run a dedicated snow tire in the winter get 15 inch steel wheels and run a 185 60 15 Tire. If you don't want to run a dedicated snow tire they have, All season tires you can run when it's cold that have the severe snow rating on them. Personally I'm addicted to summer Tires now they just grip and grip. Get a summer Tire hot put your hand on it get a, All season Tire hot put your hand on it. That will tell you everything you need to know. At the end of the day just don't drive your summer Tires if it's below 32 out or if there is any snow, sleet, or ice on the road. Everyone is going to have a little bit of a different opinion on this subject.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 


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Location
Buffalo, NY
#4
im from buffalo. we get snow by the foot and have seen temps in the single digits.
i went to the local u-pull it yard. got a set of focus wheels (15s) and got a dedicated set of snow tires in 195/55r15 (1 rev per mile more than stock size)
total investment in snow set up is about $350.
Once temps started to get down in the upper 40s i noticed the summer tires turn into straight hockey pucks with no traction.

do yourself a favor and get a set of at least all seasons for winter use. otherwise youll be going no where if theres the slightest bit of snow and youll actually be safe.
 


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Location
chapmansboro
#5
My FiST is ALSO the first car I’ve owned with summer tires and I live in the Nashville are so about the same temp. I'm hoping to eventually buy new aftermarket rims and hopefully have tires for spring summer and fall then swap for the winter. Good question and hopefully more answers? COOP
 


alexrex20

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#6
I've never in my life had winter or snow tires so maybe my experience is irrelevant, but I drive my FiST on its "summer" tires in the winter here, including when it was below freezing for a week straight. Believe it or not, I didn't die!
 


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Detroit
#7
4 season climates and dedicated wheel and tires mix well. I'd suggest budget for a 15x6 for example winter set and a 16x8 summer?
 


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New Castle
#8
I've done two Delaware winters with my FiST. The first one was on my stock all-seasons (Pilot Sport AS 3), second one was on winter tires as part of a wheel/tire package from TireRack.

Digging through my e-mail, here is my winter setup:

205/45R-16 PIRELLI WINTER CINTURATO XL mounted on 16X7.5 SPORT EDITION P5 BRIGHT SIL . I would have done steelies, but they were sold out! So my winter setup was just under $700 total. Tax free Delaware and a tire rack warehouse only 15 minutes away so no shipping fee.

The all-seasons have far better cold weather traction than your summer tires. That first winter, I was actually impressed. We get some decent snowfall in Delaware and my street does not get plowed by the city. That means I always get to do some "testing" on what it takes to lose traction at low speeds. For powdery, fluffy snow - they were great. For anything that was slushy or icy, forget it. Horrible traction.

My second winter on my winter tires - again, just fine in powdery snow. The major difference was performance on ice. We had one heck of a ice - to snow - back to ice storm. I really went out and did some decent (low-speed) pulls on our street and the damn things would find traction! Tire technology FTW! I even showed up at a restaurant for take-out and the guy asked me if I was driving a big 4x4. I just pointed out the door to my little snow-covered jelly bean and he was slightly shocked.

I'd recommend to AT LEAST get some all-seasons. If you really only get 3-4 light snows a year, a full winter tire may be more than you need. But outside of snow, how often are you driving in icy conditions? That is where winter tires really earn their money in my opinion. Final decision should probably be based on your budget and driving situation. If you are going to buy new tires anyways, it may be cheaper in the long run to buy them mounted on wheels and just do the seasonal changes yourself.
 


Capri to ST

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#10
It doesn't snow enough here to justify winter tires. The few times it does I just stay off the road, so the question for me is driving summer tires in the cold. I know they have less traction, so I don't push them when it's below about 45, although I've never felt them get slippery or lose traction.
The other issue is whether this can crack them, as Ford ST notes above. I didn't know about this until last winter when we had a record-setting week where it never got above freezing, and when I first heard it I thought "Great, something else to worry about." In my family we're good at worrying.
That said, I have kept summer tires on both of my cars for many years, sometimes driving them when it's in the 30's and a very few times in the 20's, and have never cracked a tire.
GM had a service bulletin about it that said this:

Advise customers of ... vehicles that ... are equipped with a high performance
summer-only tire that they will have reduced traction performance at temperatures below
approximately 40°F (5°C). GM recommends installing winter tires if driving below these
temperatures. Avoid driving, moving, or test-driving vehicles equipped with high performance summer-only tires below 20°F (−7°C), as operating at these temperatures
can cause damage to the tires
.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10082862-5448.pdf

Which made me feel better, that I wasn't likely to crack my summer tires the way I'm driving in the winter.
 


Intuit

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South West Ohio
#11
My FiST is the first car I’ve owned with summer tires. I've read, and heard, that I shouldn’t use them under 45 degrees. I've thought of buying a set of these: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...utoYear=2017&autoModel=Fiesta ST&autoModClar=, and mounting them on the factory rims. What do you do? Change tires on the factory rims or buy some steel wheels with winter tires? We normally have 3-4 light snows a year, and I didn’t have any problems with my last two cars, a fit and a Jetta. What else do I need to know?

Thanks.
With regard to the temperature, that is a bit extreme. But you absolutely should not trust them on precipitation with temperatures anywhere near freezing. Dry? Yeah you can get away with it.

Members here regularly unload their wheels. I simply bought a set from another member. It includes the TPM sensor and happened to already have a good set of tires mounted. Bought some Winters, stowed the extra set of Summers away. So now I have two sets of Summers and you know what that means! [burnout] After all, tires will degrade just sitting on the shelf.
 


Jerickson88

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Rock Creek
#12
Being a resident of Alabama, we get some “icy mixes” which is enough to put the average redneck in a ditch, maybe twice a year, I do travel some in the winter, regardless. In a few weeks, I’m moving to an all season, I don’t Drive hard enough on the street to notice the difference. I’d rather be equipped for whatever.
 


BRGT350

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#13
I used to store my summer tires in my garage during the winter. The garage usually stays above freezing, but the last few years have seen a week or two in which the garage dropped below freezing. I noticed after the summer tires were exposed to freezing temps in storage that they became louder, tread compound was harder, and the level of traction dropped. The tires were about half worn, but became junk. Now I store my tires inside the house. Tire Rack suggests keeping summer tires stored above freezing and now I understand why.

Summer tire compound isn't designed for colder temps. When the compound is exposed to cold temps, the molecules change their alignment. This is why summer tires don't grip well in cold temps. After being exposed to cold temps, the molecules may not return to their proper state, causing them to not work as well in the future. Tires work by the rubber interacting with the road surface. A summer tire can mold itself around the road surface. The softer the tire, the more it can mold to the surface. A harder tire can't mold around the surface, therefore it has less grip. When a soft summer tire is frozen, the molecule alignment changes and the compound can't react as well to the road surface. This is why my summer tires, even though they were never driven below freezing, became useless after being stored in cold temps. Most summer tires start to see molecular changes below 45'F, which is why there is a warning not to operate the tires below the temp.

Moving beyond the compound, the tread design is such that exposure to snow or ice is dangerous. The large tread blocks don't leave enough room on the tire surface to evacuate snow. The large blocks also create a large load dispersion on ice, giving you less traction. What works great on dry pavement is terrible on ice or on snow. It is why ice skates have sharp edges. They concentrate the load over a small area. Force equals load over area. Load is constant, so changing the area increases the force. Winter tires also have tiny cuts all over the tread blocks that allow them to vibrate and clear away snow. This makes them self-evacuating. A summer tire makes one revolution on snow and becomes completely packed. You basically have a race slick made of snow. Some winter tires have multiple compounds in each tread block that allow for increased ice traction. This is from a super sticky compound that is formulated for cold temps. At high temps, it breaks apart and you can destroy an ice tire. At cold temps, it works great.

Finally, sidewall construction of a summer tire is designed for maximum feedback and cornering stiffness. A stiff sidewall increases the wheel rate, much like a stiffer spring does on the suspension. When increasing the wheel rate, the level of warning prior to traction loss is decreased. On snow or ice, the overall level of traction is greatly reduced, therefore having a stiff sidewall provides you with less traction and less warning of traction loss. A winter tire has a softer sidewall designed to lower the wheel rate and provide more traction. The softer sidewall also flexes more causing the tire to warm faster. Going with a smaller diameter wheel with taller sidewall also protects the wheel from damage in case of pot holes or other winter road damage.

I will always discourage all-seasons since they suck in all-seasons. They have to cover to broad of a temp and traction range to be effective. Even on my wife's AWD Escape, we run winter tires in the winter. The all-seasons provided very little traction in braking, terrible corning traction, and were scary on ice. We installed winter tires and the Escape is incredible in the winter. We still use all-seasons in the summer, mostly due to the fact that the factory tires are in such good shape from only being used in the summer. The vehicle's design wouldn't allow for the advantages of a summer tire to be exploited. We use a higher performance all-season that has high levels of wet and dry grip along with being quiet. The trade-off is an all-season that really sucks in the snow, which is why we don't use them in the snow. They are an all-season tire that is really a 3-season tire.

Most people argue that winter tires aren't worth it. My sister was one of those people. She didn't want to spend the money on winter wheels and tires for her Escape. She crashed twice in the snow because the all-seasons couldn't provide enough braking traction to avoid a crash. Two insurance deductibles, increased insurance rates, and then finally buying the right tires.
 


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Gatineau
#14
Living in Canada, I know how valuable winter tires are. I bought my first car years ago and it came with winter in front and all season in back (what the fuck, I don't know). I bought it sometime in March. For anyone unaware, March and April still get some snow storm once in a while. The back of that car was a slippery mess! I knew all season were shit before without driving with any (jack of all trades, master of none), but I quickly learned why then. All season are just alright when it's dry and too cold for summer tires, but any amount of snow, forget about them.

Another thing that I want to point out: winter tires in the summer is also very dangerous. Winter tires becomes VERY soft in the heat and are losing a LOT of rubber. This raises the chances a tire will have a catastrophic failure and literally lose the tire. It's also a bit why all season sucks: they cannot be soft enough for winter and not too soft for summer.

Also a word on AWD, AWD just means you have the POSSIBILITY of having twice the traction than FWD. If all four wheels are on ice, AWD just means that 4 wheels will spin instead of 2. AWD doesn't help that much with braking either, with the slight caveat that AWD has engine braking on the rear wheels instead of just normal brakes.

As my final point, I tried an all season last year (PS A/S3+) thinking they would be good enough for stock power on the FiST and I could keep them for a long time (500TW). Fucking piece of shit was spinning all the time, so it was eating the tires like crazy. Switched to S.Drive and even though they are old technology, they grip SO much more. For winter I use the Yoko IG52c and they are very good, fairly cheap and last a long time. It's all a matter of finding the correct tires for the season you're in and anything called "all season" should really be called "no season".

Always invest well in what separates you from the ground: tires, shoes, mattress, chair, helmet, etc.
 


BRGT350

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#15
Living in Canada, I know how valuable winter tires are. I bought my first car years ago and it came with winter in front and all season in back (what the fuck, I don't know). I bought it sometime in March. For anyone unaware, March and April still get some snow storm once in a while. The back of that car was a slippery mess! I knew all season were shit before without driving with any (jack of all trades, master of none), but I quickly learned why then. All season are just alright when it's dry and too cold for summer tires, but any amount of snow, forget about them.

Another thing that I want to point out: winter tires in the summer is also very dangerous. Winter tires becomes VERY soft in the heat and are losing a LOT of rubber. This raises the chances a tire will have a catastrophic failure and literally lose the tire. It's also a bit why all season sucks: they cannot be soft enough for winter and not too soft for summer.

Also a word on AWD, AWD just means you have the POSSIBILITY of having twice the traction than FWD. If all four wheels are on ice, AWD just means that 4 wheels will spin instead of 2. AWD doesn't help that much with braking either, with the slight caveat that AWD has engine braking on the rear wheels instead of just normal brakes.

As my final point, I tried an all season last year (PS A/S3+) thinking they would be good enough for stock power on the FiST and I could keep them for a long time (500TW). Fucking piece of shit was spinning all the time, so it was eating the tires like crazy. Switched to S.Drive and even though they are old technology, they grip SO much more. For winter I use the Yoko IG52c and they are very good, fairly cheap and last a long time. It's all a matter of finding the correct tires for the season you're in and anything called "all season" should really be called "no season".

Always invest well in what separates you from the ground: tires, shoes, mattress, chair, helmet, etc.
I need to find the article, but either Road&Track or Car and Driver tested winter tires and summer tires on a Focus ST on a racetrack. The results were interesting. The winter tires held up pretty well on a track. They surely got hot and chunked, but not nearly as bad as was expected. I have driven with a few sets of Blizzaks in warmer temps on the highway and thought they felt terrible. These also had the "ice tread layer" that was probably causing the car to feel uncomfortable. My General's seem to be just fine in temps up to 80'F. In Michigan we can get random March or April days when it hits 80'F before going back into winter. My sister-in-law actually drives on winter tires all year long. Her car is never more than a few miles from home and rarely sees the highway or long distance. She ran the General Altimax Arctics for about 5 years before selling the car. The tires looked brand new. Out of all the different winter tires I have used in the past 20 years, the Blizzaks wore the fastest and felt the worst in warmer temps and dry pavement. The Generals give up a little ice and snow traction, but seem pretty good for highway use in warmer temps. I still wouldn't run them all year, but a few drives in warmer temps won't kill them.

Concerning mis-matching tires, it is best to put the same tire on all corners and next best is to put the better tires on the rear. This baffles 99.99% of the population, but that is expected because only about .01% actually understand their car and physics. Most people say that you only need a winter tire on the front of a FWD car because those are the only tires that drive and steer. Yes, it is true that a FWD car only provides power to the front wheels and they also do the steering. But under braking, the front with winter tires produce vastly more traction than the rears if they are all-seasons or summer tires. The rear loses traction under braking, causing a spin. Most people can handle a lack of front traction in accelerating or turning. Most can't handle a loss of rear traction. Having mismatched tires is terrible, and having a grippy front and slippery rear is even worse. Winter tires are pretty cheap, so just go with all of them being the same. I think I paid around $60 a tire for mine. Never getting stuck, spinning, crashing, or scared in the winter is priceless.
 


Intuit

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#17
............ I will always discourage all-seasons since they suck in all-seasons. .................
There was ONE exception to this... before they stopped making them LoL. Kelly Navigator Gold. They had a compound and tread pattern that fared well in the Winter. Never had to worry about getting stuck. The season they were most susceptible to trouble was actually Spring. Once the tread got near the wear bar, they had little hydroplane resistance. So basically just had to keep it at the speed limit. By the time you were into the wear bar it was basically 55-60MPH and under. They put the wear bar right where they knew wet traction would be an issue.

When it comes to all-seasons, the uglier the tread pattern, the better it will behave for three of the four seasons. Unfortunately all the manufacturers went to the pretty, curvy, wavy tread patterns that are all but completely useless on snow. Great for rain, but useless on snow. With the number of wrecks and craziness after snow falls these days, it shows.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#19
My FiST is the first car I’ve owned with summer tires. I've read, and heard, that I shouldn’t use them under 45 degrees. I've thought of buying a set of these: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...utoYear=2017&autoModel=Fiesta ST&autoModClar=, and mounting them on the factory rims. What do you do? Change tires on the factory rims or buy some steel wheels with winter tires? We normally have 3-4 light snows a year, and I didn’t have any problems with my last two cars, a fit and a Jetta. What else do I need to know?

Thanks.
This is what I did....I bought some pretty much new Pirelli sotozero tires and stock Gunmetal 17 in wheels with some Summer tires ready to go already on them. Swapped the tires out for the winter ones on the gun metal stockers and used my nice stockers to get powder coated gold rubbed bronze and install the Bridgestone summer tires from the gun metal wheels onto my nice powder coated stockers.I got maybe $800 into everything and that included tire sensors also. So I got pretty much 2 almost new sets of tires...... 2 sets of wheels with sensors.. off the forum.. and Powder coated one set check out my post using the stockers instead of buying brand new wheels. [rockon]


Here it is.....

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/17148-Stockers-all-done-up!
 


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