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Cracked camshaft?

OP
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Thread Starter #22
My sentiments exactly. Thx man. This has been quite a wild ride with these cars. It's so unfortunate that the car is such a fun car....but all this repair stuff is straining my relationship with Ford.
I knew right when I pulled from the lot that this thing wasn't right. The engine idles smooth but lots of engine movement. The engine cover looked like it had been on the ground and kicked around. The a/c hose insulation was torn off. It is kinda silly. I'm really concerned after seeing the head with bent valves and the journals all gouged up that the bottom end is not right now too. It had very little power at all.
 


Dpro

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#23
Wow, ya I am not sure what to say. I don’t like lawyers either but there is a reason they exist and would say if in your shoes I would be talking to one. There is only so much we as normal citizens can do when up against corporate entitites.
I do find it interesting that it keeps happening to you repeatedly. I also saw there are some that have had this issues but not everyone. I do think an aftermarket upgraded aluminum radiator is on my list of definite upgrades.
I will also say has anybody looked at the stock radiators for possible seepage issues?

I come from B!W’s and know the factory plastic end tank radiators on my M3’s were prone to cracking and failure. Literally had one blow apart on exiting a freeway interchange at 75 mph. It was quite surprising, being a BMW owner I knew stop immediately and shut down before the engine went into limp and overheated.
Much more dramatic, oh and ya BMW’s are known for the dreaded headgasket leak out the back of cylinder 6 in the water jacket.

Engine runs fine you just lose small amounts of water to the outside of the head/bock.
BMW never changed the design. Its known among smarter M3 owners its not if you blow a headgasket its more when. Seen it on both of my M3’s first one previous owner did the headgasket prior to purchase. Second one had the fun of discovering the dreaded dried coolant leak signs on the back of the engine.

So Aluminum radiators both cars! It looks like I will put a larger aluminum radiator in the FiST for cautions sake as well.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #24
Thx for the info. There are some extenuating circumstances as to why no lawyer and I don't really see this as a big coporate conspiracy. Just see it as an issue that needs resolution. With my experience, I do not see how a coolant monitoring system is the solution to an engine that consumes coolant. It help avoid catastrophic failure but does nothing for the underlying cause. I also have seen no noticable coolant consumption with either of my cars. The tech said the coolant was low but I documented it with pics before bringing it in and it was fine.
 


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#25
With my experience, I do not see how a coolant monitoring system is the solution to an engine that consumes coolant.
It isn't, and it isn't designed to be. Recalls are really about safety. The safety issue with these engines was that if the coolant ran low (due to the hot spot or leaks or whatever), the head could crack, spew oil everywhere, which would then catch fire and engulf the car in flames. Ford has persuaded NHTSA that by ensuring you don't run low of coolant in the first place (by adding the sensor), this worst case scenario will no longer happen. But as you said, it does nothing to resolve the underlying problem. They'll only replace the head if it is already starting to crack and leak coolant into the cylinder. So for the rest, it is kind of a ticking time bomb. And now it seems we are seeing continued cooling/head issues even among those with the "redesigned" head. Your case is the worst of them, and I'm not sure there isn't something else going on here, but in any case it's highly concerning.
 


Intuit

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#27
Soooooo.....heres the latest. Car back together now but the story is quite different than i was led to believe. Tech notes below.

My thought....the head was replaced and timing incorrect causing valve to head contact breaking cam....and now I'm pissed!

Thoughts?

VERIFIEDT CODES P0217 P0219 P0303 FOUND
COOLANT LOW RELITIVE COMPRESION/POWER BALENCE PASS.
ENGINE HOT PERFORMED COOLING SYSTEM PRESSURE TEST DROPED
4 PSI IN 3 HRS.REMOVED SPARK PLUGS BORE SCOPED FOUND COOLANT
COMING IN CYLINDER 3 AT HEAD GASKET AREA.REMOVED CYLINDER
HEAD INSPECTED HEAD AND BLOCK PER GSB 0000161. NO PITS
SUFACES EVEN.CLEANED AND REPLACED CYLINDER HEAD GASKET
PER WSM 303-01C.WHILE DURING ENGINE START UP THE INTAKE CAM
SNAPPED
IN HALF REMOVED VALVE COVER INSPECTED BOTH CAMS APPEAR TO
HAVE A FLAW IN THE CASTING
AND IMPERFECTIONS IN BOTH CAMS.WHEN CAM BROKE BENT VALVES
AND CRACKED THE HEAD AT THE CAM CAP ON THE INTAKE
SIDE.REPLACED BOTH CAMS TAPPETS AND CYLINDER
HEAD PER WSM 303-01C.CHANGED OIL AND FILTER BLED AND FILLED
COOLING SYSTEM CLEARED ALL CODES TEST DROVE RESET MISIRE
PROFILE CORALATION RECHECK FLUID LEVELS TEST DROVE CK OK
MO43930

The old 1.9L SEFI engines that went in the 'scorts were known to drop valve seats when they got a lot of miles on them and/or were allowed to overheat.

Anyway, when they did so, some portion of the engines had hidden bottom-end damage, that would later result with a thrown rod. So... anytime an engine drops a valve seat or pistons are allowed to meet valves, at the very least, the bottom end should be disassembled and inspected for damage.
 


Ford ST

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#28
The old 1.9L SEFI engines that went in the 'scorts were known to drop valve seats when they got a lot of miles on them and/or were allowed to overheat.

Anyway, when they did so, some portion of the engines had hidden bottom-end damage, that would later result with a thrown rod. So... anytime an engine drops a valve seat or pistons are allowed to meet valves, at the very least, the bottom end should be disassembled and inspected for damage.
First car was a 96 Ford Escort. I put way too much money in that car. It's death was a dropped valve seat.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 


Intuit

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#29
What are the odds that TWO camshafts bad in same engine? Haven't heard of any cam problems with the 1.6 and this engine has TWO?

What kind of force must there be to break a camshaft and the camshaft journal cap mount? And bend the valves? Not sure of any other way this could happen.
Techs do make mistakes. I'd allow them to fib on this one just because these sorts of errors can cost a tech their job. However, depending on how much you can trust their work, it might be prudent to insist that the bottom end be disassembled for inspection.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #30
Techs do make mistakes. I'd allow them to fib on this one just because these sorts of errors can cost a tech their job. However, depending on how much you can trust their work, it might be prudent to insist that the bottom end be disassembled for inspection.
I don't operate like this, sorry. I understand making mistakes but I also believe in fessing up to in making it right. The tech clearly was sloppy at best. The A/C hose insulation was ripped off and the engine cover looked like it was kicked around the floor with scratches all over it. Some fluids were slopped around on various things and the hood had greasy fingerprints all over it when I picked it up. The engine sounded like it was firing fine but was shaking a lot it seemed. The ac hose was jumping around. On first acceleration, it almost stalled but I chalked that up to several weeks driving an automatic. But then it hesitated a ton on first acceleration. The engine just didn't seem to have any pep to it. Almost acted like it was great soaked within minutes of driving it. Then a single second gear pull and it headed up and never recovered.

Now I find out that the dealer is advising Ford that they installed the head and the car is still leaking coolant. No mention that I ever picked the car up and had to bring it back. Just that it failed during their test drive. It's complete BS. I have pics of the head that I want to post but can't figure out how to post.
 


LaserWhisperer

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#31
I don't operate like this, sorry. I understand making mistakes but I also believe in fessing up to in making it right. The tech clearly was sloppy at best. The A/C hose insulation was ripped off and the engine cover looked like it was kicked around the floor with scratches all over it. Some fluids were slopped around on various things and the hood had greasy fingerprints all over it when I picked it up. The engine sounded like it was firing fine but was shaking a lot it seemed. The ac hose was jumping around. On first acceleration, it almost stalled but I chalked that up to several weeks driving an automatic. But then it hesitated a ton on first acceleration. The engine just didn't seem to have any pep to it. Almost acted like it was great soaked within minutes of driving it. Then a single second gear pull and it headed up and never recovered.

Now I find out that the dealer is advising Ford that they installed the head and the car is still leaking coolant. No mention that I ever picked the car up and had to bring it back. Just that it failed during their test drive. It's complete BS. I have pics of the head that I want to post but can't figure out how to post.
Use tapatalk and upload from there. Much easier that way
 


Intuit

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#32
I don't operate like this, sorry. I understand making mistakes but I also believe in fessing up to in making it right. The tech clearly was sloppy at best. The A/C hose insulation was ripped off and the engine cover looked like it was kicked around the floor with scratches all over it. Some fluids were slopped around on various things and the hood had greasy fingerprints all over it when I picked it up. The engine sounded like it was firing fine but was shaking a lot it seemed. The ac hose was jumping around. On first acceleration, it almost stalled but I chalked that up to several weeks driving an automatic. But then it hesitated a ton on first acceleration. The engine just didn't seem to have any pep to it. Almost acted like it was great soaked within minutes of driving it. Then a single second gear pull and it headed up and never recovered.

Now I find out that the dealer is advising Ford that they installed the head and the car is still leaking coolant. No mention that I ever picked the car up and had to bring it back. Just that it failed during their test drive. It's complete BS. I have pics of the head that I want to post but can't figure out how to post.
Nope, agreed. What are the per-cylinder compression numbers?
 


OP
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Thread Starter #33
No compression numbers provided by dealer.

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OP
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Thread Starter #34
Oh Tapatalk...yes Tapatalk...why didn't I think of that? WTH? Thx!

So here are a couple pics of the removed head. Pay close attention to the pitting in the casting of the sealing surface aound the cylinder. I thought it was gasket material but is actual pitting. Wonder what the casting looks like in section? They claim the cam cap and valves are bent from the cam shaft breaking....doubt it. They are wide open and bent=piston slapped them when open. Also check out the cam journals and tell me of maybe my engine was oil starved?


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Dpro

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#35
Well I would have to say after all of this if you have been going to the same dealer a lot of this BS is on the dealer. They clearly seem to be making mistakes all over the place.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #36
Well I would have to say after all of this if you have been going to the same dealer a lot of this BS is on the dealer. They clearly seem to be making mistakes all over the place.
Yeah. I've bought over 20 cars from this dealer... But their handling of this is straining our relationship.

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Dpro

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#37
Yeah. I've bought over 20 cars from this dealer... But their handling of this is straining our relationship.

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Your patience with them is beyond amazing. I would have walked on them and reported them to Ford after the whole first go around. Once a place starts screwing up on me regardless of how long I have taken my business to them I start looking elsewhere.
 


Ford ST

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#38
Yeah. I've bought over 20 cars from this dealer... But their handling of this is straining our relationship.

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You must be a saint man. If I bought 20 cars from a dealership and that's the way I was being treated, they would either give me a brand new car or I would have went to jail for driving through it. You deserve a brand new complete engine, water pump, every hose, heatercore and a radiator. Absolutely anything that could contribute to overheating should be replaced.

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