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Torque Pro

XuperXero

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#1
I'm pretty sure other people are using this as I've seen the name come up a few times, and decided to create a dedicated thread.

Anybody played around with this app for smartphones? Just got my ELM327 dongle today and following this thread, I've been playing around.

Things I've noticed:
1. I can't hit past 18 psi, I thought our car runs 21? Unless Euro cars are different?
2. Max vacuum was also -29.7 mm/Hg, while AP guys are reporting -44.
3. Richest AFR I've got was 10.5, that's pretty rich for a stock car... normal? Built a racecar before making 380whp and tuner never went below 11's.
4. Timing advanced up to +20 [unbelieveable]
5. Is IAT reading pre or post intercooler? Never went above 50 degrees C.
6. Finally and most importantly... Anybody know the PID and equations for Oil pressure and oil temp?!? I want this the most due.

Going to be datalogging once I get a hang of all the parameters. Quite a fun little app! Especially cheap for monitoring boost and engine vitals with hotter weather recently (going to hit 40's Celsius soon).
 


MOFiST

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#2
If you cant find the PIDs and have a laptop available try the FORSCAN program. http://forscan.org
I believe it has up to date PIDs and it is free! Otherwise they may have be able to give you PID info if you ask nice?
I just joined their forum as they have a beta iPhone app they are testing.
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #3
Thanks for that, I'll have a look.

FYI euro spec cars need to set boost to read from MAF instead of MAP as we have different ECU. Boost reading went up to 22.6 psi whcih is about right.
 


MOFiST

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#4
Hmm that doesn't sound right man. The MAF sensor sits in the intake vacuum stream. Pretty sure we'd still have a MAP sensor.

I think I know what your getting at our car uses the MAF sensor in a different way than the N.A. cars. A totally different tuning strategy.
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #5
Hmm that doesn't sound right man. The MAF sensor sits in the intake vacuum stream. Pretty sure we'd still have a MAP sensor.
You got me... I'm just as dumbfounded as you, but reading from MAP definitely gives inaccurate results. But setting to MAF reads both vacuum and boost. Maybe setting to MAF reads off another sensor has booth boost and vacuum?

There's an option to choose to read from ALT which I haven't tried yet. I'll give that a shot on my way home from work today.

FYI, I owned myself after looking up Forscan. My dongle is bluetooth only and my laptop has no bluetooth. [?|][?|][?|]
 


MOFiST

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#6
Really? No BT. You can a laptop dongle in the country your from for 0.99c with free shipping!
lol maybe get one of those micro ones the size of half a thumb nail for a little more. Anyways that's what I'd do.
 


MOFiST

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#7
I bought Dash Command for the IPAD the other day but realised I require a WiFi OBD2 dongle so waiting on this from PRC.
I hope to compare notes when that arrives.
BTW is your OBD2 port open or behind a cover door. Our Aussie one has a cover door over it.
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #8
Really? No BT. You can a laptop dongle in the country your from for 0.99c with free shipping!
lol maybe get one of those micro ones the size of half a thumb nail for a little more. Anyways that's what I'd do.
I searched around and found some more PID's but no equations for them, any idea how to convert equations or reverse engineering of math equations? Found the PID's here.

I bought Dash Command for the IPAD the other day but realised I require a WiFi OBD2 dongle so waiting on this from PRC.
I hope to compare notes when that arrives.
BTW is your OBD2 port open or behind a cover door. Our Aussie one has a cover door over it.
Behind cover door like all euro specs... can't close it with dongle in [?|], I may look into relocating the OBD plug if possible.
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #9
Also forgot to mention, set boost to read from ALT, same thing as MAP. Won't past 17.5 psi. Went back to read from MAF.

Strangely though, on my way to work today I hit 30psi without WOT... However, today's temp is hitting 39degrees C's... expecting hotter by noon.
 


MOFiST

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#10
Fired up Forscan again today with the laptop netbook. Its a good little program.
I've hacked apart one of my bluetooth dongles to make it MS CAN compatible. Following this guide. http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4
TBH I don't know what else it will tell me but I got bored and stuck inside. Still yet to test as it pissing down outside.
On the subject of PIDs I haven't been able to uncover much except on a truck forum there was mention of Oil Temp > http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1073405-torque-app-ford-extended-pids.html
I'm not sure if Oil Pressure is availible to us as Cobb doesn't list it on their "Monitor List".
 


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#11
OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #12
Fired up Forscan again today with the laptop netbook. Its a good little program.
I've hacked apart one of my bluetooth dongles to make it MS CAN compatible. Following this guide. http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4
TBH I don't know what else it will tell me but I got bored and stuck inside. Still yet to test as it pissing down outside.
On the subject of PIDs I haven't been able to uncover much except on a truck forum there was mention of Oil Temp > http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1073405-torque-app-ford-extended-pids.html
I'm not sure if Oil Pressure is availible to us as Cobb doesn't list it on their "Monitor List".
I haven't gotten far enough to understand MS-CAN yet. This thing is complicated as it is.

FYI, the PID's in the Ford truck forums is already on torque pro, you have to go to Settings > Manage extra PIDs/Sensors > Menu > Add predefined set > Ford and it'll automatically add all the PID listed on the truck thread.

BTW, engine oil temp doesn't work [:(]


Found some useful information here. It's GM specific but same method may also work for Ford enhanced PIDs.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/127485.html
My goal is to log all PIDs used when tuning,(same as COBB)
but my ELM327 doesn't seem to work with my new phone:-(

Also found some info here
http://www.focusst.org/forum/data-logs/21003-pid-names-torque-pro.html
Thanks for the link on enhanced PID, will give that a shot now.

I also found the Focus ST forum thread on my quest for Ford PID's. The only issue is that the poster hasn't found the equations. My arithmetic skills are definitely not sufficient enough to reverse engineer it. But it's interesting to see Charge Temp. I'd definitely liked to compare that to IAT to see how well intercooler is working.
 


MOFiST

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#13
I haven't gotten far enough to understand MS-CAN yet. This thing is complicated as it is.

FYI, the PID's in the Ford truck forums is already on torque pro, you have to go to Settings > Manage extra PIDs/Sensors > Menu > Add predefined set > Ford and it'll automatically add all the PID listed on the truck thread.

BTW, engine oil temp doesn't work [:(]
I tried to make the dongle work but need to get a new switch a the one I was working with has gone open circuit.
I know nothing at all about MS CAN but I can make my $10 Bluetooth dongle compatible for the price of a cheap switch I will try.
I hoping the wifi dongle soon to arrive will allow me to close the OBD2 door when it connected as it pretty low profile.
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181460146206?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I may further down the line fit a sandwich plate under the oil filter to get oil pressure if there is no PID available.
Hoping 2J racing releases their prototype gauge pod.
 


Sekred

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#14
The Euro cars run a MAP sensor in the intake manifold, front left had side, 3 wires. There is also another boost pressure/temp sensor (4 wires) in the cold side IC pipe before the throttle body. And of course you have the MAF sensor too.
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #15
I tried to make the dongle work but need to get a new switch a the one I was working with has gone open circuit.
I know nothing at all about MS CAN but I can make my $10 Bluetooth dongle compatible for the price of a cheap switch I will try.
I hoping the wifi dongle soon to arrive will allow me to close the OBD2 door when it connected as it pretty low profile.
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181460146206?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I may further down the line fit a sandwich plate under the oil filter to get oil pressure if there is no PID available.
Hoping 2J racing releases their prototype gauge pod.
OBD Door will not close even if the dongle is low profile. The gap between the door clip and connector is JUST enough for female connection of the dongle. which is ridiculous. Even if you force it in, you may not be able to open it again as there is no longer room for the clip to move...

Here's a better solution:
There's clips on both side of the OBD plug on the car, use flathead screwdriver and push it in then it'll pop off inwards.


Looped it into the cover, then I wrapped the wires with OBD plug with electric tape (yellow) as I was afraid opening and closing the door would damage the wires over time.


Viola! Door closes with dongle in.




I thought our cars had oil pressure and oil temp gauges already? I recall people with Cobb AP being able to monitor that, if they can, why can't we? Just need to find the PID's or find an equivalent to Cobb AP with gauge readouts..
 


MOFiST

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#16
OBD Door will not close even if the dongle is low profile. The gap between the door clip and connector is JUST enough for female connection of the dongle. which is ridiculous. Even if you force it in, you may not be able to open it again as there is no longer room for the clip to move...

Here's a better solution:
There's clips on both side of the OBD plug on the car, use flathead screwdriver and push it in then it'll pop off inwards.


Looped it into the cover, then I wrapped the wires with OBD plug with electric tape (yellow) as I was afraid opening and closing the door would damage the wires over time.


Viola! Door closes with dongle in.




I thought our cars had oil pressure and oil temp gauges already? I recall people with Cobb AP being able to monitor that, if they can, why can't we? Just need to find the PID's or find an equivalent to Cobb AP with gauge readouts..
Thanks for the idea re the OBD connector. I'll be onto that.
Re COBB monitors there are tons! but i didn't see Oil Pressure listed there. See here> https://cobb.app.box.com/ford-monitor-list
 


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#17
Oil pressure is read directly from the sensor and not channeled into the ECU on this application.

Cheers,
Braden @ COBB
 


OP
XuperXero

XuperXero

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Thread Starter #18
Thanks for the idea re the OBD connector. I'll be onto that.
Re COBB monitors there are tons! but i didn't see Oil Pressure listed there. See here> https://cobb.app.box.com/ford-monitor-list
You're welcome. And nice link on the ford monitor list.

Oil pressure is read directly from the sensor and not channeled into the ECU on this application.

Cheers,
Braden @ COBB
Hi Braden, Thanks for the feedback. How does the engine compensate for low oil pressure then if it's not channeled through ECU? I thought ECU controlled and monitored everything.

Also is it possible to provide PID and equation for Charge Air Temp? [twothumb]
 


MOFiST

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#19
My new cheap(ish) WiFi dongle arrived and didn't want to play nice. It connects but is giving false readings and basically was starting to shit me!
Maybe I'll try another day...

I completed the switch into the other Bluetooth Dongle which can talk to my laptop. This setup works great now with Forscan. I now have access to several other MS-CAN modules as well.
The only problem it's one of the bigger chunky style dongles. Even with your technique above it still wont fit! So I'm using a piece of Velcro to hold the cubby flap shut.

I'm gonna be stuck with this laptop setup for logging unless I get a decent (expensive) dongle or an android tab/phone that will work with the Bluetooth.
[idea]
 


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#20
I have been using both Forscan and Torque Pro. I have not managed to read knock sensor data yet.
I tried what was suggested here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/127485.html
But i could not read any enhanced PIDs.
I read that companies making ODB software have to pay for using manufacturer enhanced PIDs.
That's why these PIDs are "locked" but Torque Pro can still manage to read some of them, at least for GM it seems.

Using Torque Pro i can now read Measured AFR, Commanded AFR, Timing Adv, boost, IAT, CAT and more.

Data seems to be correct.
I have Measured AFR 14.7 when cruising and 12.2 at WOT using stock map.
With Revo stage2 map i have 14.7 cruising and 11.2 WOT.
WOT are the richest values i remember seeing.
 


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