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Fiesta ST Buying Advice from a Ford Salesman

Messages
6
Likes
5
Location
McComb
#1
I've been asked to put a few words down to help those who are looking to buy a new car (particularly a performance car/ limited production car).

A little background about me. My name is Andrew Montgomery, I'm a car salesman at Keith White Ford Lincoln in McComb, MS. I am also very much a performance car enthusiast and a FiST owner. I created this account to provide a source of information for those with questions about the ordering process as well as to promote my business by building good-will in the community here.

This is a basic primer on buying a new performance/limited production car. I'll open up to questions and keep this rolling along as people inquire about further details.

What do you need to know when you walk in to buy a rare car?

First off is which dealership you will pick. Lets face it, there are a bunch of Ford Dealerships around the country, likely at least three or four within an hour of you regardless of where you are in the country. So whats important when picking a dealer? Pick a dealer/salesman who is passionate and knowledgeable about the car you are buying. Not only will you enjoy the experience more when you can talk about the car/industry during the process, but you will also have a good source of info and someone to fall back on when you have questions. Pick a dealership with a good service department, and, if you plan on buying a car to customize, one that is friendly to the motorsports industry. Some service departments are more strict than others with vehicle modifications, and if you pick one that is not very strict, they will likely be much more willing to help you out if you have a tuning issue in a grey area if you buy the car from that dealer. Establishing relationships with the departments is the name of the game. Most importantly, pick a dealer/salesman who you will be comfortable dealing with. If the whole deal feels slimy, move on to another dealer. You have choices.

What about the car itself? You need to know what you want when you go in. What happens next is determined by one thing, is the car you want available at that dealership or will you have to order it? With rare cars they typically are either immediately bought or they languish on the lot. Dealers want to move these cars quickly, you can get good deals in these cases. So if your local lot has the same Fiesta ST or GT500 on the lot for many months, you will probably be able to get a better deal on it than if it is fresh off the truck. The trouble is, limited production cars that are more desirable won't be on the lot long, and are typically special order.

Ordering the car: If you didn't luck out and find the car you wanted on a local lot you have two options. The quickest is for that dealer to search nearby lots and find the car you want if it is available. Remember what I said about establishing relationships with one dealer salesman? Pick the dealer/salesman that you really mesh with. They can get a vehicle from other dealers so you deal with the guy you are most comfortable with. If there is a case where the car is so rare that other dealers don't have the one you are looking for it may be time to order one. Good news!!! You get it EXACTLY how you want it. Want Recaros on an Oxford White FiST without a Sunroof? Order it exactly how you want. Any dealer can order a vehicle for you exactly to your specifications. If they tell you otherwise, go to someone who values your business at another dealership.

Ordering a special vehicle is a risk for the dealer. If it is a limited production vehicle that is in high demand, it's not that big of a deal, the dealer can move it quickly if the buyer backs out. If it's not, the dealer may want a guarantee that you will pick it up, otherwise, it will end up sitting on the dealer's lot for many months and that's not a good thing.

What do you need to do to order one? First, know exactly what you want when you go. Once the dealer places the order that car will be made to order, after the order is placed it is too late to change your mind. Next, be prepared to submit to a credit check. This is part of that guarantee that you will buy it when it comes in, if you aren't able to buy for credit reasons, the dealer needs to know. In most cases money down or a cosigner can tip the balance from not being able to get financing to getting an approval, but that information is nice to have ahead of time. Lastly, be prepared to put down some earnest money for the order, especially in cases of rare cars that are not in high demand, how much depends on a few factors, but have the money available before you go in.

Paying for the car: If you plan on financing know this ahead of time. Be prepared to give personal information, and be able to prove what you say (particularly with regards to residency and income). Getting financed is a very easy process, but it is still by its very nature, a company lending you $20000+ for a vehicle. If you plan on paying cash, this really isn't important. However, sometimes financing at a low rate with rebates then paying off in a few months will save you some money. Money that can be put into something like an AccessPort or Exhaust.

I'm planning on typing more of these tips as I think of them, but in the meantime, if you have particular questions regarding anything on this matter, please ask it here and I'll answer it here. This helps build a good base of knowledge for the community to reference.

Thanks for the support guys!
 


Messages
299
Likes
67
Location
Tupelo
#2
Greetings from Tupelo! Have you guys had a lot of st's come through? They were scarce when I was looking. My dealer ended up outsourcing to Montgomery to get me one.
 


OP
K
Messages
6
Likes
5
Location
McComb
Thread Starter #3
They are very hard to find. Maybe two or three per state in our area. We've had one FiST and a FoST or two. I bought the FiST we had a few months back and it had been sitting on the lot for around nine months. So in the case of our cars, they are rare but they aren't highly sought after by the majority of customers, so if they aren't special order they tend to sit until another dealership comes looking for them.
 


Sourskittle

4000 Post Club
Messages
4,567
Likes
860
Location
Lakeland
#5
I drove a base in my area. White and base, exactly what I wanted (minus I wanted recaros ). I ended up settiling for silver ( my second choice ), getting every option to get my seats, and driving 3.5 hours away to buy it.

The car I didn't buy.... It sat for 4+ months. Only reason I know is that the guy that bought it found me on the forum and invited me to a car meet, lol.

I was really surprised at lack of demand for a $21,400 Fist. Sticker on mine was $26k. So I paided $5k for seats that came with stuff I didn't really want, lol. Now? I'd def get the nav and sunroof again if I had the choice.
 


RAAMaudio

5000 Post Club
Messages
5,268
Likes
925
Location
Carson City
#6
Welcome to the forum and great advice, as a buyer of dozens of cars over the years your recommendations are spot on.

This I learned the hard way, be patient. I paid a bit to much a couple of times because I wanted to get out of there, go have some fun in the new car.....if they play the waiting game, keeping you sitting forever, it is just a game, tell them you are not waiting around, make the deal or not. If the dealer is really busy you might have to wait a bit of course but most of this does not take very long.

One more lesson learned. Be rested, I was working crazy hours at a very stressful job, commuting, had a vehicle with problems, needed to get this done......They added a bunch of crap to the contract which I caught and made them redo it, they showed me the new one with the corrections, I sighed it, drove home, next day look at it and realized they just added the same amount of money on the other side of the page. That was really shity on their end, knowing I was active duty Navy on sea duty and missing ships movement because of a broken down vehicle could cost me dearly.....Since a ton of the guys went by there all the time, at least a couple of hundred fellow commuters.....I made sure the entire ship and everyone else I met knew what they did to me. I bet they lost a bunch of sales as never saw another new car sold by them for a very long time.

OK, 3 bad buys but overall, I do very well on my car and truck and trailer buying and have had more than I can recall, I have made money on some I did not keep long, have a 2 years old $60k truck I paid $44k for brand new that would sell for $50k now....I am way ahead of the game:)

There are great dealerships, great fellow enthusiasts salesmen, great service departments, usually all at the same location, pick well:)
 


Messages
694
Likes
32
Location
SoCal
#7
So i guess the dealer i went to wasnt lying when they said their was only one white fiesta ST in california so i settled for a bone stock black with no options do still want recaros tho
 


OP
K
Messages
6
Likes
5
Location
McComb
Thread Starter #8
Thanks for the responses all! I'm noticing a bit of theme on here so I have a few points that might help everyone out some more.

Buying a base car and adding on features after purchase: I'm noticing a good number of guys and gals say something to the effect of "they didn't have xxxx color with Recaros, but I'll just add them later" and then a few days later in the interior forum posting "How can I buy the stock Ford Recaros?" or "Will the Recaros from XXXX car fit?" If there is something you want on your car, order the car that way or find a car with the options, it is much cheaper this way. I've priced out Recaros for customers before through our service/parts department. That $2000 add-on that is listed on the sticker very quickly becomes $4000-5000 when you order the parts individually (and in the case of the Recaros you have to order them in pieces as the seats aren't sold separately). The reason for this price increase is this, when you buy a base car, in effect, you are also buying the base seats. Add on Recaros after the fact and you are buying base seats + Recaros. Since there is no market to trade/sell base seats you aren't able to recoup the money from the stock seats that came with the car. If you instead purchase the Recaros, in essence, you are purchasing a seatless car and adding in the price of Recaros.

Think of it like a formula.

Car + Base Seats = Base Car

Base Car - Base Seats + Recaro Seats = Sticker Add-on Price with Recaros

Car + Base Seats + Recaro Seats = Aftermarket Recaro Add-on Recaros.

That same formula applies to seats, wheels, Nav, whatever you might add as an option on the sticker. Also included would be any rebates from Ford just for going with the options as part of the car.

Now which options are best/recommended on Fiesta/Focus ST/(hopefully RS)? If you are of average build, Recaros really make the car. Nav is very nice, but often coupled with a Sunroof on dealer-ordered cars. Cosmetic stuff is a matter of opinion. Ideally, most folks recommend Recaros and those who have used it recommend Nav. Sunroof tends to be take it or leave it.

That is the beauty of ordering from Ford, you can get an ST2 package and leave off the sunroof, just specify that when you order. A knowledgeable salesman will really help with this procedure. Are you a long way from a knowledgeable salesman? Local dealer have no experience with these cars? More good news, you can order from the knowledgeable dealer and have them drop ship it to your local dealer. All pricing and contracts are handled with the knowledgeable dealer and all you have to do is pick up the car from your local lot.

Adding parts from Ford Racing (Mountune): If you decide you want to have some dealer installed performance parts before you get your car, this can be handled fairly easily upon request. For truck guys, it is extremely common to add on things like a bed-liner or receiver hitch, performance cars are no different. Just let your salesman know that is what you want and if he is worth his salt, the parts department and salesman can make that happen for you. In some cases, you can even get parts added at a discount rather than buying them separately, depending on the dealer's relationship to parts vendors. Not to mention you can sleep easy if you have Ford sanctioned parts installed by a Ford Service Department, you will have no warranty issues later down the road.

Keep questions/comments coming!
 


RAAMaudio

5000 Post Club
Messages
5,268
Likes
925
Location
Carson City
#9
Another great post about car buying, I have modded dozens of car and now when I buy new I get everything possible on the conract. That way not digging up the funds all the time, not doing work I can skip, let the bank pay for it and then when resell you still have not paid for it all.....especially if you get a killer interest deal and or special pricing, etc.....

I was considering fixed back seats in my car, the cost was close to $2k just for decent seats, mounts, brackets, sliders, etc....and in reality would only save 12 or so lbs and be far less comfortable and much harder to get into and out of even with the most street oriented FIA seats I could find. I was then going to have to add air bladders for lumbar and seat heaters so even less weight saved though those parts do not weigh much, I have them already but still the cost is around $250-300 added.

Several wanted to buy my stock Recaro seats but they balked at $2k plus shipping saying that was all they cost, not true, as you have shown, the $2k upgrade which includes air bags, rear seats, etc... is a killer deal on the Recaro package. I already knew it would cost at least $4-5K to swap after the fact.

---------------

Great to here real advice for fellow enthusiasts, keep up the good work:)
 


Messages
694
Likes
32
Location
SoCal
#10
Thanks for the responses all! I'm noticing a bit of theme on here so I have a few points that might help everyone out some more.

Buying a base car and adding on features after purchase: I'm noticing a good number of guys and gals say something to the effect of "they didn't have xxxx color with Recaros, but I'll just add them later" and then a few days later in the interior forum posting "How can I buy the stock Ford Recaros?" or "Will the Recaros from XXXX car fit?" If there is something you want on your car, order the car that way or find a car with the options, it is much cheaper this way. I've priced out Recaros for customers before through our service/parts department. That $2000 add-on that is listed on the sticker very quickly becomes $4000-5000 when you order the parts individually (and in the case of the Recaros you have to order them in pieces as the seats aren't sold separately). The reason for this price increase is this, when you buy a base car, in effect, you are also buying the base seats. Add on Recaros after the fact and you are buying base seats + Recaros. Since there is no market to trade/sell base seats you aren't able to recoup the money from the stock seats that came with the car. If you instead purchase the Recaros, in essence, you are purchasing a seatless car and adding in the price of Recaros.

Think of it like a formula.

Car + Base Seats = Base Car

Base Car - Base Seats + Recaro Seats = Sticker Add-on Price with Recaros

Car + Base Seats + Recaro Seats = Aftermarket Recaro Add-on Recaros.

That same formula applies to seats, wheels, Nav, whatever you might add as an option on the sticker. Also included would be any rebates from Ford just for going with the options as part of the car.

Now which options are best/recommended on Fiesta/Focus ST/(hopefully RS)? If you are of average build, Recaros really make the car. Nav is very nice, but often coupled with a Sunroof on dealer-ordered cars. Cosmetic stuff is a matter of opinion. Ideally, most folks recommend Recaros and those who have used it recommend Nav. Sunroof tends to be take it or leave it.

That is the beauty of ordering from Ford, you can get an ST2 package and leave off the sunroof, just specify that when you order. A knowledgeable salesman will really help with this procedure. Are you a long way from a knowledgeable salesman? Local dealer have no experience with these cars? More good news, you can order from the knowledgeable dealer and have them drop ship it to your local dealer. All pricing and contracts are handled with the knowledgeable dealer and all you have to do is pick up the car from your local lot.

Adding parts from Ford Racing (Mountune): If you decide you want to have some dealer installed performance parts before you get your car, this can be handled fairly easily upon request. For truck guys, it is extremely common to add on things like a bed-liner or receiver hitch, performance cars are no different. Just let your salesman know that is what you want and if he is worth his salt, the parts department and salesman can make that happen for you. In some cases, you can even get parts added at a discount rather than buying them separately, depending on the dealer's relationship to parts vendors. Not to mention you can sleep easy if you have Ford sanctioned parts installed by a Ford Service Department, you will have no warranty issues later down the road.

Keep questions/comments coming!
Do you know much about what you can modify on a leased car or is it based on the dealer you bought it from?
 


OP
K
Messages
6
Likes
5
Location
McComb
Thread Starter #11
Leasing and modifications:

A quick word on leasing, leasing payments are calculated based on the difference between selling price and residual value (the predetermined value at the end of the lease term). Damage to the vehicle will lower the value of the vehicle below residual value and you, as the customer will be required to make up the difference when you turn it in.

The official answer to lease modification is simple, don't damage the vehicle or do any body modifications.

The real issue with leasing modifications comes down to the contract between you and your lender. Some contracts will say no to any user modifications. These contracts are between the bank and the owner (who are by law co-owners of the vehicle during the duration of the lease) This will not vary from dealer to dealer because the dealer is not a part of the contract.

Now, if you plan on buying the vehicle at the end of the lease, it doesn't matter. You will be paying exactly what you agreed to in the contract as the residual value. Nobody will be reviewing your vehicle when you are buying at the end of the lease. But you better be 100% certain that you will be buying it, because if not, it will cost you money if you damage the vehicle in any way.

If you haven't purchased your vehicle yet, and you plan on modifying the vehicle, just buy the car. The payments on Ford performance vehicles (over the standard 72 months) will be pretty close to the lease payments (over 36 months). If you plan on buying the car, driving it the three years, then turning it back in, without worrying about negative equity in a trade, don't modify the vehicle.

Thanks for the question!
 


Messages
694
Likes
32
Location
SoCal
#12
Leasing and modifications:

A quick word on leasing, leasing payments are calculated based on the difference between selling price and residual value (the predetermined value at the end of the lease term). Damage to the vehicle will lower the value of the vehicle below residual value and you, as the customer will be required to make up the difference when you turn it in.

The official answer to lease modification is simple, don't damage the vehicle or do any body modifications.

The real issue with leasing modifications comes down to the contract between you and your lender. Some contracts will say no to any user modifications. These contracts are between the bank and the owner (who are by law co-owners of the vehicle during the duration of the lease) This will not vary from dealer to dealer because the dealer is not a part of the contract.

Now, if you plan on buying the vehicle at the end of the lease, it doesn't matter. You will be paying exactly what you agreed to in the contract as the residual value. Nobody will be reviewing your vehicle when you are buying at the end of the lease. But you better be 100% certain that you will be buying it, because if not, it will cost you money if you damage the vehicle in any way.

If you haven't purchased your vehicle yet, and you plan on modifying the vehicle, just buy the car. The payments on Ford performance vehicles (over the standard 72 months) will be pretty close to the lease payments (over 36 months). If you plan on buying the car, driving it the three years, then turning it back in, without worrying about negative equity in a trade, don't modify the vehicle.

Thanks for the question!
So I think I need to look through paperwork then thanks!
 


Messages
108
Likes
16
Location
Dallas
#13
Would -$200 on invoice be decent? $22,856 after rebate plus TT&L.

Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like this:

$23,856
-$1,000 rebate
-$2,000 cash down

Financing $20,856 *1.0625 (TT&L) = $22,159.50 / 60 @ 0.0% = $369.33/mo
 


Messages
17
Likes
2
Location
Adelaide
#14
I have been in the Automotive sales and Management field in Australia for near on 20 years so if any Aussies ever need any advice hit me up.

Good thread idea OP.
 


Messages
108
Likes
16
Location
Dallas
#15
Welp. I have $2,257 off vehicle price. Oxford White FiST with the smoke gray Recaro Package OTD $23,676 and $2000 down. Wondering if I can get them down even more. :hmm:
 


Messages
94
Likes
19
Location
Uniontown
#16
i have a molten orange FiST in my sights. its 4 hours away. i contacted the dealership and they want to ship it to my local dealer, but i really want my local dealership to get the sale because i told him id buy from him. i dont want to go behind either of their backs. any advice?
 


Messages
199
Likes
19
Location
Port Hueneme
#17
Find out how it will be shipped to your dealership. Some dealers will trade a car on their lot for the FiST you want and have a driver perform the swap or have the car you want trucked to your dealership on your dime.
 


Messages
30
Likes
3
Location
redding
#18
advise on negotiations? i have a great salesman that i have been talking to and working with for the last year and a half(also bought my wife's fit through him) I ordered a FiSt the first week in march of this year its finally going to be delivered sometime in the next seven days. i only put 500 down to order the car and haven't financed it yet the msrp on my FiSt is 25,105, and i hoping to be around 23k before tax title and license and below 25,500 otd. thanks
 


Messages
159
Likes
21
Location
Stillwater
#19
I was wondering about the strictness about modding. I bought my car in the city 45 minutes away, but I go to a local Ford dealer for warranty work. I feel that neither dealership would try to be too rigid about a few mods. But which one gets the final say? The dealer you bought it from, or the dealer you take it to for work? I thought ultimately it was Ford motor co who decides if your warranty is valid on a certain repair or not?
 




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