Ecoboost Intake Valve Carbon build up ?

[Natedogg]

While his car is highly modified (big turbo, and every other mod imaginable on a GTI), he does not have a catch can. VW's FSI and TSI have an oil/water separator that VW designed and comes from the factory. It's an interesting setup, which also shows why PCV isn't the only contributor.

I truly believe that beating the hell out of it every now and then isn't such a bad thing as long as you're not bouncing off the rev limiter for long periods of time.

 

[dyn085]

I haven't seen any evidence yet that the FiST/FoST have a need for a catch-can. Fuel dilution is not an issue as evidenced by UOA samples, and the condensation junk that everyone likes to show as their 'proof' of catch-can efficiency would be burnt off normally through getting their oil up to operating temperature for a short while. The use of a low NOACK score oil and a jaunt down the local highway/interstate every so often is most likely plenty.

Those that only operate with short drives with lots of stop-and-go or those that use a low-quality oil are going to be the exceptions to the rule and would probably benefit by getting it out of their system. That is most likely going to be a very small portion of the overall audience because most owners buy the ST trim to have a bit of fun-not to commute ten blocks to work.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Here's some reads on the matter generally speaking with regard to GDI. 3 mitigating items identified that include calcium reduction/molybdenum increase and the need to the base oils to be MORE volatile and of less molecular weight. The latter is counter to what is currently popular.

http://archiwum.inig.pl/INST/nafta-gaz/nafta-gaz/Nafta-Gaz-2014-04-04.pdf
http://fuelsandlubes.com/digital/fli/2013-Q3/files/assets/basic-html/page43.html

 

[OCDFist]

It'd be cool if all of the people installing the Boomba intake manifold spacers with varying mileage could post pictures of the cylinder head/valves during the install, assuming there's a good view of them at that point.

 

[Boro]

Could someone clarify for me the whole Italian tune up thing?
I thought I had read that being on boost for longer periods or higher psi causes more oily gas to get sucked into the intake and do bad things to valves. So if you're at WOT to heat up the valves, are you indeed pulling more gas from the crankcase and its just hot enough that it's fine, and idle temp is just too cold, or did I totally misunderstand what's going on in these engines?

 

[Natedogg]

How the system works is under vacuum, the fresh air side is attached to the turbo inlet tube, and the crank case vents through the PCV and in to the intake manifold. Under boost, the PCV valve closes, and it draws crank case vapor through the fresh air tube and in to the turbo inlet (since the inlet side of the turbo is sucking air in).

So in theory, you need a catch can on both tubes of the PCV system.

The benefits of getting things hot enough to burn off any deposits out weigh the little bit of crankcase contaminants entering the intake.

When I got my Jetta, I took it out for a good beating. By the time I was done, it was blowing smoke out the exhaust (i bought it with 42,000 on the clock). I knew it was just burning off carbon, but I had no idea it was that caked up. Otherwise, I would have beat the hell out of it for a week straight and it probably would have stopped misfiring.

 

[jaynometry]

I was never a fan of drag racing but this summer, I'm gonna take it to the strip for "maintenance purposes" haha

 

[BlueBomber]

I don't see how the Italian tune-up will help.

as I said in my article outlining the need for walnut shell blasting service on BMW N54/N55 turbo sixes, you actually need something to physically get in there and actively dissolve or scrub off the gunk. You wouldn't believe how nasty BMW N54/N55s get after just 30-40k. Likewise, I felt like my performance was starting to suffer around 30k, at which point I bought a can of AEROSOL SeaFoam spray and fed that into the intake just before the throttle body at the sound symposer port. I used a piece of tape with a pinhole in it to feed in the cleaner without letting a ton of unmetered air in so that it wouldn't stall out.

Did my 1/3 can, shut off the car, fired it up and POOOOOFFFF GIANT CLOUD OF DEATH GAS

car runs awesome now. I'd recommend doing something similar.

Just flogging the shit out of the car does nothing. The italian tuneup principle works if you have PORT FUEL INJECTION where the injector's spraying gas all over the gunk on the intake valves and it stands to reason that more gas = more carbon dissolved - now, we have DIRECT INJECTION, with direct injection there's no gas spray on the intake valves - the injector has been moved into the combustion chamber and cannot get onto the intake valves at all - therefore, no matter how hard you flog the car it will make no difference in removing the carbon build up. In fact, by flogging it you'll just cause more buildup as the buildup occurs at boost.

 

[LeonardSkeonard]

I don't see how the Italian tune-up will help.

as I said in my article outlining the need for walnut shell blasting service on BMW N54/N55 turbo sixes, you actually need something to physically get in there and actively dissolve or scrub off the gunk. You wouldn't believe how nasty BMW N54/N55s get after just 30-40k. Likewise, I felt like my performance was starting to suffer around 30k, at which point I bought a can of AEROSOL SeaFoam spray and fed that into the intake just before the throttle body at the sound symposer port. I used a piece of tape with a pinhole in it to feed in the cleaner without letting a ton of unmetered air in so that it wouldn't stall out.

Did my 1/3 can, shut off the car, fired it up and POOOOOFFFF GIANT CLOUD OF DEATH GAS

car runs awesome now. I'd recommend doing something similar.

Just flogging the shit out of the car does nothing. The italian tuneup principle works if you have PORT FUEL INJECTION where the injector's spraying gas all over the gunk on the intake valves and it stands to reason that more gas = more carbon dissolved - now, we have DIRECT INJECTION, with direct injection there's no gas spray on the intake valves - the injector has been moved into the combustion chamber and cannot get onto the intake valves at all - therefore, no matter how hard you flog the car it will make no difference in removing the carbon build up. In fact, by flogging it you'll just cause more buildup as the buildup occurs at boost.

I thought seafoam dramatically shortens the lifespan of turbochargers? I might be mistaken.

 

[BlueBomber]

I thought seafoam dramatically shortens the lifespan of turbochargers? I might be mistaken.

the aerosol said it was safe for turbochargers and catalytic converters; it's not exactly the same animal as regular seafoam I'd imagine. either way, the car runs much better - and the turbo was probably filthy, as I blew off the chargepipes a few times and likely sucked up a bunch of dirt.

 

[dyn085]

Italian tuneup has nothing to do with fuel or where it's injected, it has to do with raising the temperature of the valves along with the mechanical action afforded by high-rpm's.

There's no way I'm putting any form of Sea-Foam through my car, lol.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

.......Boom.....mind blown. Good stuff.....fu$k sea foam or should I say snake oil.

 

[PhoenixM3]

.......Boom.....mind blown. Good stuff.....fu$k sea foam or should I say snake oil.

CRC makes some good stuff. I only have 5k miles on my FiST and an OCC was installed at roughly 1500 miles.

 

[MitchsFiesta]

So, being from a company that pretty much only does direct injection cars I do have a few things to say about this.

Yes, catch cans help. I recommend them to all my customers. they don't get everything but will certainly slow down the carbon build up.

I have been offering Walnut blasting on customers cars for about 6 months and it REALLY helps. Some of the 100k+ cars I cannot remove ALL the carbon buildup but if you catch it early and do it regularly you can make the valves look brand new every time. That being said its pretty time consuming and very messy. I know its not "ford approved" but I do it all the time on MZR motors with success. FYI the MZR motor is made by ford. On the BMW N54 others have done before and after dyno's getting back 5-10 hp on higher mileage cars.

A note on meth injection and port injection.... it basically freezes the carbon buildup. It prevents it but does little in terms of cleaning what is already caked on the valves.

 

[J2FoRS]

So, being from a company that pretty much only does direct injection cars I do have a few things to say about this.

Yes, catch cans help. I recommend them to all my customers. they don't get everything but will certainly slow down the carbon build up.

I have been offering Walnut blasting on customers cars for about 6 months and it REALLY helps. Some of the 100k+ cars I cannot remove ALL the carbon buildup but if you catch it early and do it regularly you can make the valves look brand new every time. That being said its pretty time consuming and very messy. I know its not "ford approved" but I do it all the time on MZR motors with success. FYI the MZR motor is made by ford. On the BMW N54 others have done before and after dyno's getting back 5-10 hp on higher mileage cars.

A note on meth injection and port injection.... it basically freezes the carbon buildup. It prevents it but does little in terms of cleaning what is already caked on the valves.

So at what point should this become an issue? If I add an OCC at 20,000 miles am I too late? Is there no point? If I want my car to last a long time at what point should blasting be considered? And what kind of shops do this?

 

[Sourskittle]

The intake we pulled off at 7k miles was covered in oil and had carbon all over the back of the valves. And that car was driven hard.
Srt4's have success with water/meth, not sure why we wouldn't.

 

[PhoenixM3]

The intake we pulled off at 7k miles was covered in oil and had carbon all over the back of the valves. And that car was driven hard.
Srt4's have success with water/meth, not sure why we wouldn't.

I had a 2008 MINI S (R56) for my wife and it suffered from carbon build up. I performed the Seafoam treatment once or twice which seemed to help (and produce a shitload of white exhaust smoke. I was on sea duty at the time, didn't have time to fiddle with it and having a technical discussion when you're not fluent in Italian is exhausting. Anyway, we dumped the MINI for a loss and ended up buying an E90 M3 - big difference in expense and performance, I know. Knowing what I know now about direct injection, I've installed an OCC, but am really interested in learning if some of these products like Seafoam will hurt seals over time. With my track record for not keeping cars too long, I'd likely unintentionally hand over any problems to the next owner. In this case, my daughter.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

The intake we pulled off at 7k miles was covered in oil and had carbon all over the back of the valves. And that car was driven hard.
Srt4's have success with water/meth, not sure why we wouldn't.

Srt-4's had direct injection? That's news to me....

 

[TyphoonFiST]

So, being from a company that pretty much only does direct injection cars I do have a few things to say about this.

Yes, catch cans help. I recommend them to all my customers. they don't get everything but will certainly slow down the carbon build up.

I have been offering Walnut blasting on customers cars for about 6 months and it REALLY helps. Some of the 100k+ cars I cannot remove ALL the carbon buildup but if you catch it early and do it regularly you can make the valves look brand new every time. That being said its pretty time consuming and very messy. I know its not "ford approved" but I do it all the time on MZR motors with success. FYI the MZR motor is made by ford. On the BMW N54 others have done before and after dyno's getting back 5-10 hp on higher mileage cars.

A note on meth injection and port injection.... it basically freezes the carbon buildup. It prevents it but does little in terms of cleaning what is already caked on the valves.

And how much does this media/walnut blasting cost?

 

[bobjob]

about 500$ and 4 hours @ modauto