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2J-Racing Cowl Induction Intake

Trader history for joe@2j-racing (0)

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Skittle this is some fantastic information!!! I do feel like I need a TL;DR version though for people like myself who are just looking for "what should I do in scenario #1" etc. Basically all I need to know is if I don't upgrade the turbo, which size intercooler is best...and for those that do upgrade, which size they should choose. Appreciate any help you can give, thank you!
 


the duke

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I used to believe that too because.... Because i read it in books. Lol. But in practice, with the cars all coming stock with SRT turbos ( small retarded turbos), its would be really hard to get " too big".

My first couple turbo cars had reasonable size coolers, and despite the obvious, I figured the were good sized. Then... Then came the srt4. I did a cyborg type upgrade ( we basically pioneered what hundreds and hundreds of srt4 owners have done with the stock turbos. We did all the R&D, then 2 years later 4-5 different shops had copied us and did the same turbo, we called it "SST" super stock turbo). Anyway... Did the SST, hit it with 100shot of nitrous, and obsessed about all the tiny details i could "tune". When I finally saved up my $385 for a ebay srt4 intercooler, I second guessed it for the same reason. All those books written 20 years ago by some really smart guys ( most will reference Corky Bell when this comes up ). But... My charge temps were 250-260 degrees coming out of the intercooler and that just seemed high ( comparred to our fist, its batshit crazy high ). So I made the leak because "race car". At the time ebay intercoolers were thought to be total, un-usable crap. The AGP build option that was the closest was $600-$700. I'd never have saved that much. So... I installed the ebay cooler. It was 24x12x4". Back then... That was "way too big" for a td04 turbo with a 15G wheel.

I still did it.

My first impressions were "holy crap, not only is there not more lag, but the car drives WAY WAY better off boost, rowing through the gears". Then the charge temps... Most the time, they stay'd down around 120-125 degrees. The power increase from the cooler charge temps was crazy. Power was likely increased by the ecu letting it run more timing as well. But wow... It was the second best mod I ever did to the car. There was ZERO difference in lag. There was better throttle response off boost. And the car made way way more power, and it did it more consistently. After meth injection, I could get BELOW ambient temps, but that's another story.

Later... The srt4 guys did some testing. All on the same day, they swapped intercoolers out at a dyno day on two different cars.

What they found was... The ebay giant intercooler actually made MORE power than a spearco costing $800, on a stock turbo srt4, while the spearco was actually a bit smaller. The ebay intercooler also matched the $600-$700 AGP equally sized cooler by like 1-5hp on the stock turbo. Proving... The bigger intercooler on an extremely under sized turbo is the right way to go.

The catch was.... When the coolers were swapped to a car with a AGP garrett 50-trim turbo kit, the ebay cooler DID NOT flow as well. It had a better cooling capacity, but the Spearco actually beat it by a reasonable amount at like 400whp on a big turbo car. They concluded that the extremely hot air coming off the stock turbo was flowing through the spearco SO FAST that it did not get time to transfer enough heat before passing into the engine. The more restrictive ebay cooler held the air back longer and cooled it, coupled with its larger metal mass to dissipate heat.

So now after living it and having experience, I never under-estimate the difference an "over-sized" intercooler can make on a small, stock, heat spitting turbo. If I didn't have that experience, and lived/tested it, I may have been fully agreeing with you "the Duke".

As far as Corky Bell and all that, I think that ole Corky never envisioned at the time of his writing of his book, that we would have peanut sized turbochargers cranked to 25psi on ford fiestas, lol. I think on that topic, he's more thinking a buick grand national or small block chevy V8 with at least close to properly sized turbos, not turbos that make 29psi at 2870rpm and run out of steam at 4800rpms, lol.

Its no wonder that pumaspeed has like 3 different options for intercoolers that are "bigger", "quiet a bit bigger", and "way bigger" than an of the currently available intercoolers we have for USDM cars.

Our cars are super sensitive to charge temp too. You can see the setting in race tuner software (cobb). So not only will you lose power via warmer air, but the ecu dials out timing as well. Its a double edge sword, and that's why its #2 on my list.

I think i just set the record for off topic rambling, but whatever, I'm bored and wanted to share, lol.

Stock


$385 ebay one i had


$800 spearco


AGP Race ( Inthink they updated it)
Its not as straightforward as larger therefore better. It depends on temperatures, fluid velocity, material composition, wall thicknesses, intercooler design (bar/plate vs. Tube/fin, air/air vs. Air/water, fin density, etc.) As well as atmospheric conditions like air density, temperature, and humidity.

When you start getting into uprated turbochargers we start getting into changes to mass flow, pressures, etc.

I'm not saying you didn't see the results you saw, but many factors are at play when taking into account heat exchanging. My initial point is there is an optimal range.

What did you see for heatsoak and dissipation? Part of the problem is if you don't have proper airflow to cool the intercooler its efficiency sinks.

Did you ever do a to map of the surfaces (front and rear) or tc locations of airflow in the pipes? I'd be interested to see what the temp. Gradient was and what the actual temps in the tubes were.
 


Sourskittle

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To simplify, in my opinion, the biggest intercooler you can afford that will fit. But that's me, based on personal experience, based on pretty obvious results countless srt4's have see with an equally mis-matched small turbo. Theory is great for white coats and millionaires, that can just buy the most expensive and hope its the best because its "superior design" and "development". Kinda like a very expensive air intake that took forever to release because "development" and "design", but has too small of a filter... Science only goes so far before you to test it :)
 


rodmoe

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All this from a simple 2J racing Intake sales thread .. awesome but plz stay focused and maybe start a new thread to expand on the info that may be over looked bythose not looking for a new intake ? just a thought..
 


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Wichita
Got in late on the pre order, curious if I order the extension if they'll show up relatively close to each other.
 


HaveBlue83

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i just wanna plug n play install and drive it lol. it figures they go out of stock at the same time as the intakes ship lol.
 


Sourskittle

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It was almost 90 degrees today in Central FL, and I was seeing a lot of heat soak that normally isn't an issue.
 


re-rx7

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I would not touch the catback or charge pipes until your much much further along.

Looking back....
#1 cobb accessport/stage1

#2 intercooler. As big as I could buy ( watch deadhook motorsports, very soon ).

#3 catless downpipe and custom tune ( panda/freaktune/randy )

#4 2J racing intake or stay stock (maybe cut the stock box ).

#5 cyborg turbo or ATP kit or custom EFR ( which ever suits your budget, driving style, needs the best ).

If you can't afford #5, then go no further.

The stock charge pipes are not a restriction on the stock turbo ( if they are, we're talking 1-3hp, not worth anything for the price ).

Cold-air or air intakes have not proven anything to me. For the $140 ones, you get noise and prob almost no power gain. The $300 is... $300 for almost no power gain ).

Catbacks. The car just simply is not out flowing the stock catback. The stock catback is actually really good for the stock turbo. The only real reason to get a downpipe is to ditch the cat, if your not ditching the cat, prob not worth the cost either.

Maybe we'll see in the future that water/meth injection and a tune is a game changer. But with the stock turbo, your really just splitting hairs for $100's of dollars at a time.

Now... If you gonna have your rice cakes... Loud air intakes, loud BOV spacers, loud exhaust systems are what they are. If your willing to pay the cash price for noise, and your willing to except that your paying for nothing but noise, then don't let me slow you down.

I spent $450 on a downpipe and then $400 on a catback almost right away, and I wish I'd have spent it in other places. Even now, this car is not an SRT4 or mazdaspeed 3 so the exhaust notes are still half honda-sounding to me, and sound-wise, I wish I had kept the stock exhaust ( although it would prob hold me back just a bit with the state of tune on my car ).

Pretty off topic, but to relate it more to this intake. This is the only intake I'd pay more than $50 for.
I agree 100%.

Kinda like a very expensive air intake that took forever to release because "development" and "design", but has too small of a filter... Science only goes so far before you to test it :)
Aww yes. The elephant in the room.
 


Sourskittle

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I left names out of it because i didn't want to turn the tread into a "debate", but I pretty much posted all kinda of off topic crap, so may as well,'lol.

Yes... Primitive testing has shown the cobb tiny filter to be a restriction inside the box.
 


LT Berzerker

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Lol, it's all good, personally, if someone asks what intake they should go with....

I'd give'em my opinion and rationale for it just as (I believe) you have done skittle.

End of the day, people speak with their dollars, criticizing products is partly how they get better and a necessary evil in an open market. Bad feedback if better than no feedback :)
 


Sourskittle

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I'm not saying its BAD. I'm just saying... Its $300+. It took a long time due to "design" and things like that. And on a turbo bigger than stock, its a restriction. No more. No less.

For the power hungry guys like myself, the 2J is the only one I want to spend my money on. But, for guys wanting something quiet a quiet-ier and don't really care about gains in power ( although, I have to admit, if you want quiet and your not worried about power, why not just stick with stock ), the cobb would be a good choice. I really like their tubes. But its a bit like buying drag radials that don 't get traction because you wanted them to get good gas mileage.

The $300 really is an issue for me. I'd feel so much better paying $300 for this custom welded metal intake than I would a stamped plastic one. Plastic MAYBE BE BETTER, but that doesn't mean it should be $300. Plastic is cheap, metal and metal fabrication is NOT CHEAP, so why is the metal custom one $150 and the plastic one is $300?

Please note. I've never bought anything from Joe. Never received anything for testing. I'm not even trying to convince anyone to buy this intake from Joe ( Joe himself told me its crazy loud and unless I'm the type of guy with a giant "TURBO" tattoo on his back, then it may not be for me).

My srt4 ran 11.96 on a stock air box and intake ( and modded stock turbo). I'm a big believer in not spending money on something that isn't broken. If you want quiet, stay stock. If you want noise but not power, buy the injen. If you want power and can live with noise, send Joe your money. Where does the cobb intake fit into things? I'm not real sure...

I'll also say... I've got about a billion datalogs, and I plan to be pretty honest about this intake as well. If I don't pick up any power on my setup, and its just loud for no reason, then I'll post that. I don't think that is gonna be the case ( i've been wrong plenty of times before ). But I don't owe Joe anything.

Have to admit.... The cobb does LOOK nice. And I LIKE that its plastic...
 


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My main goal for my car is to keep it fun and allow it to breathe better. I want to do intake, exhaust, dp, and intercooler. That's it. So I'm not necessarily looking for noise or power, just for the car to breathe better. However, I like 2JR and this intake is pretty neat. Is it unbearable loud for a daily?
 


HaveBlue83

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Now THAT is dedication LOL.

I AGREE on all points....and cobb costs more and takes longer because the have to pay for shipping costs into the US and wait for their products to show up. Why u think the intake took so long? They got a batch in fron the mfg and it wasnt correct. Do it AGAIN.......waste.

2JR (and injen) intakes are USA made. 2jr is custom and has gains.

Im selling the injen for a 2jr. Im ok with some noise. My EVOIII turbo on my 4G63T swap car with an injen on it is loud. I wish it was louder. My catless turboback makes my ears hurt on long drives. I wish it was louder. LOL.

These things ship yet? Im gonna do this and the boomba shift kit at the same time.
 


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