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2 or 4 or 6 Point Pierce Motosports Brace

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#1
I've been wondering about the Pierce Motorsports Front Lower Tiebar.

I can understand that the tiebar will improve handling by keeping the control arm mounts from flexing.
It may be a case of "More is Better" - but is there a real need for the 4 or 6 point brace.

Personally, I think the 4 point brace would be great, but I think the 2 point brace may be sufficient!
Not sure why the 6 point brace would be needed....

Thoughts?

-- Max
 


rodmoe

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#2
I thought the same thing till I got one just to see and WOW I was surprised how much it firmed the car up and kept the rear tire lower to the ground if not on the ground in hard cornering like in AutoX or evasive manuvers in traffic.. I got the 6 point but i would say for the street a 2 or for would be awesome.. no more three legged dog in the hard corners ..
 


KKaWing

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#3
I think Pierce designs them with the 4-point as the standard model, or at least people prefer it on the Veloster forums. The 2-point ones are for racing regs. where "ladder" braces are not allowed. The 6-point ones reach so far back that ground clearance might be a problem for some.
 


RAAMaudio

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#5
2-point would be my recommendation.

I built my own as it is also the rear mount for the under tray and the design is part aero as well.

I had the manager of the MMP Ford Race shop checking my car out on a lift and he concurred.

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If you are going to add a splitter/under tray then a DIY 2 point is the way to go and a pretty easy part to build overall.

-----------

I did buy a used STB to try out but it will not fit on my modified upper strut attachment points so I might have to built my own to test.
 


OP
G
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Thread Starter #6
2-point would be my recommendation.

I built my own as it is also the rear mount for the under tray and the design is part aero as well.

I had the manager of the MMP Ford Race shop checking my car out on a lift and he concurred.

-----------

If you are going to add a splitter/under tray then a DIY 2 point is the way to go and a pretty easy part to build overall.

-----------

I did buy a used STB to try out but it will not fit on my modified upper strut attachment points so I might have to built my own to test.
Rick,

While I'd love to make my own, I don't have that equiptment (or skill?).
I do plan on doing the undertray, but I "think" the undertray could extend all the way back to the 4 point one.....

What is the advantage of the 6 over the 4?
 


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#7
I know someone mentioned you didn't need more than the two point before from some Ford Racing shop had told them cant find the thread though
 


RAAMaudio

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#8
That was me, my car on a lift, manager of the shop had driven it and came back grinning ear to ear, loved the car, checking out my mods, said it was all I needed. Mine is a 1" sq tube, two bolts, two washers, 2 rivnuts, low weight, built from stuff on hand, works very well. I am considering adding two more bolts but not sure I can get rivnuts there so may drill and tap the subframe instead though it helped a great deal and held up under two days of hard core track use jumping over all the curbs on 225 race tires on 9" wide wheels which gives them great support and more grip. It was designed as a 2 point brace, rear under tray mount and Guerney flap to aid in air flow at that location. Now it is also the mount for part of a big duct to direct air up towards the DP and draw more air out of the engine bay and it helps there a great deal as well.

When I lift the car back up higher I take some good pics to post on it.

For those that do not want build one the 2 point for sale is my recommendation.

If I have time, closing in on track days soon, new turbo in progress, new IC, etc.....I might add to mine to do some testing on 4 and 6 point but until then I am quite sure what I have is all I need. Others like the 4 and 6 point, that is great, why I am considering it as I always keep my mind open to possibilities.
 


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#9
Yea it was you RAAM i wish someone had tested all three lol to give their opinion i love everything about the car besides the slight body roll cuz I have the stock seats and not very wide if i take a turn sharp i feel like im getting thrown against the door
 


RAAMaudio

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#10
Stiffer springs will help with body roll, as we as lowered ride height, so far loving the track option BC coilovers, ride and handling and body roll all better. I have a 5 way custom rear sway bar I will be testing soon as well.
 


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#11
Stiffer springs will help with body roll, as we as lowered ride height, so far loving the track option BC coilovers, ride and handling and body roll all better. I have a 5 way custom rear sway bar I will be testing soon as well.
any experience on any of the springs?
 


RAAMaudio

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#12
I am just using the BC with the race setup sold by 2-J, I do not recall the rates but around 100 lbs stiffer than the softer ones.

My car is around 170lbs lighter than stock but adding back around 50 to the rear when I get to working on the audio, washer bottle, etc....

With this setup and just myself in the car it rides a bit stiff, with my wife it rides a bit better, with 200lbs of dogs it rides very very well.

With just me and the weight out of the back still the ride is better than stock so depending on the weight of the car and use you might want the race setup, it is not that bad.
 


antarctica24

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#13
I bought the 6 point from Pierce Motorsports, and I can tell you the handling improvement was overwhelming. Mind you I installed the BC Coilovers first. Drove on those for about a week which was an improvement on its own, at the time of the BC coilover install I installed the strut tower brace. What it felt like was a completely different driving experience but felt like something was missing. When I installed the 6 point, everything came together. While I completely understand that a driving experience is a personal thing. The difference with and without is extensive and I am so very excited about the improvement both in ride and handling which it affected both.

If I may without insulting anyone's own experience, All car chassis are bad from the factory save 10-15 cars that most of us could not afford. They are loose and flexible, and that affects the handling characteristics of a car. What happens is we get in the car, and because of our own personal experiences we get use to the car and the way it handles, and we adjust to accommodate the cars ability.

Some people like to manipulate the suspension until it matches their driving preference. I am the opposite, I believe you setup the car for the car, and then you adjust yourself to match it. This means you can get in any car and based on the driver you should be able to drive the car. The Fiesta St was good from the factory. Without saying the BC coilovers are the cats cheese, I believe any coilover would offer improvements on what is there just because of the natural characteristics of a coilover. The strut tower brace and 6 point connector underneath did everything it was suppose to do in the all the right places. The car is much more responsive in the corning and yes I could physically tell the difference between before and after even after the coilovers. Imagine taking a wide interstate exit curve at 90 mph and doing so with your thumb and index finger holding the steering wheel with your left hand while your arm rest on the top of the door panel, and it feels like the car is on a track and you could not lose control if you wanted to. I don't think I have to say anything else. It is not the same car anymore.

On that note, I will add, that the swapping out of the brakes, coilovers and lighter wheels, added to the benefits. The car at this point handles every bit as good as anything I have owned or driven and I can tell you that list is extensive, and expensive. I consider the modifications I have made thus far, all mentioned here, were right on the money and I am not sure there is anything thing else I could do to improve upon it.
 


balone10

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#14
Antarctica you convince me, thank you. Let me know, did you put something to the back? Strut tower brace? Sway bar?
 


antarctica24

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#15
Antarctica you convince me, thank you. Let me know, did you put something to the back? Strut tower brace? Sway bar?
No other than install the real cool overs from bc. While some cars may need the use of bigger swaybars and others are welcome to chime in with their opinion I do not believe after the bc coil over install and front strut tower brace and 6 point support that upgraded sway bars are needed.

IMO you don't want the car to be too stiff even for a race track the chassis needs to have a little bit of give and roll otherwise you really increase the chances of rolling the car in an evasive situation. Normally I would have done everything at once but because I did it in pieces I got to test out each piece and how it changed the car. If I was doing the brakes again I would do brembo for no other reason Wilwood and 2j did not want to stand behind what they sold. Wilwood eventually sent me an rma but after making me jump through a bunch of hoops.

If I was going at it again on the coil overs I might opt for the st suspension brand. Those come with two different springs and use them together and my guess is acting like a variable spring setup would be a better overall drive. But when I installed the 6 point from pierce Motorsports it changed the feel of the car once again. Having driven the car at over 120 before and after and now having 90,000 miles on the car the car feels so much more comfortable over 100. It is just not the same car anymore and it for for the good.

The brakes, wheels and tires lightened up the front end and actually improved the feel of takeoff. The suspension updates just tightened everything up. I don't know if if I could buy another car off the showroom floor that would feel this good for under 50,000.
 


balone10

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#16
Thank s again
I have already ordered vogtland coil 3 days ago. I will follow your experience and forget sway bar and rear rigidity and order the front tower and lower 6 points brace.ā€Ž hope to have the same confidence feel than you. Maybe litle less whit thoses spring
 


antarctica24

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#17
Thank s again
I have already ordered vogtland coil 3 days ago. I will follow your experience and forget sway bar and rear rigidity and order the front tower and lower 6 points brace.ā€Ž hope to have the same confidence feel than you. Maybe litle less whit thoses spring
If you got the Vogtland stuff that has the two different springs in the coilovers you are going to be very happy with those. The biggest problem here with coilovers is they are not variable. They are a fixed spring rate which tightens up the ride, but it tightens up the ride. Yes you read that right. The two different spring rates will give you the best of both worlds with stiffer lateral support and softer impact on the vertical. Then you can adjust to your hearts content. Very nice choice. had I seen those I would have given them serious consideration.
 


RAAMaudio

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#19
Interesting to say the least, most dual spring setups have a fixed rate spring and a helper spring that is only there to ensure constant contact, not actually part of the actual spring rate.

It is well known that variable rate springs are not optimal for all out performance as the rate change can upset the balance of the car in the middle of a turn, hitting a bump, etc....

These seem to be dual rate in the setup, the little spring does not seem to be as light as a helper spring which makes me wonder just what happens when it compresses all the way and the big spring takes over, how linear that would be, overlapping considered, compared to a variable rate single spring.
 


antarctica24

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#20
Interesting to say the least, most dual spring setups have a fixed rate spring and a helper spring that is only there to ensure constant contact, not actually part of the actual spring rate.

It is well known that variable rate springs are not optimal for all out performance as the rate change can upset the balance of the car in the middle of a turn, hitting a bump, etc....

These seem to be dual rate in the setup, the little spring does not seem to be as light as a helper spring which makes me wonder just what happens when it compresses all the way and the big spring takes over, how linear that would be, overlapping considered, compared to a variable rate single spring.
I agree with you, The variable rate spring is used to improve ride quality, not ride stability. This is the same theory behind the beehive valve spring from compcams and does all of that while reducing the overall weight of the spring itself increasing valve stability. It causes a gradual seating of the valve instead of the slamming affect. With the variable spring, changes in movement are gradual instead of abrupt. In the case of these coilovers and the ST Suspsension setup, it would improve the ride quality over the standard fixed spring giving it a staging area of compression before moving to the fixed spring. They make single variable spring setups for coilovers but I have never used a set.
 


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