Tune+: Tuning Review and Information Thread

[JasonHaven]

Adam's base tune he provided me gave me more power than the Stage 2 OTS map, fwiw. That was before revision. I only have an Intercooler, as far as mods. I wouldn't be surprised if his tune + Intercooler gave me about the same power as OTS stage 3, but I don't have the specific numbers to back it up (yet).

 

[Tune+]

Did 12 more Fiesta E-tunes over the past week, where you guys at? Haha.

 

[frankiefiesta]

Waiting on cyborg turbo & 2J intercooler

 

[JPGC]

Okay,
So here is my review on Tune+ (Adam). The tune is finished up and I spent about an hour driving around today making sure that there was nothing else I needed to log for Adam to be revised. First off, I can truly say this is the best tune I've had on this car. It is smooth, idles great, makes good power and the log numbers are on point. Note my mods in my signature to see my mod level with this tune. Adam is extremely easy to work with and very quick. He responds quickly to emails and with revisions...sometimes within the hour but no more than a day. If you are considering Tune+ for your tune, do not hesitate. Below is my final datalog/ datazap and a few videos with the Tune+ tune installed.

http://datazap.me/u/jpgc/jpgc-tune-iwa-datalog-20151222?log=0&data=5-8

https://youtu.be/OwDWNgMduRE
https://youtu.be/9wieX3VgXXw
https://youtu.be/u_YpzZ8Mh5I

 

[TempeST]

Haha, I was one of those 12...

I have nothing but amazing things to say about his tuning. My Base Map was awesome already drove smoother and was a noticeable difference in power and response all over the power band. I have asked him multiple questions and he never fails to answer any of them in less than 24 hours. including the revisions!! If it wasn't for myself holding back the Datalogging I probably would be done by now. However its hard to get logs in a crowded area especially when around the holidays. Haha. but we are on V4 and and its only taken a week and a half. (would be less if I could get them to him faster) I also have his Wastegate actuator, and pre gapped plugs. which I highly recommend both to everyone. the car is just soon much smoother now and even more fun to drive than it was from the factory.

I wish I would have come to him before I started any of my mods and asked his opinions on what mods to get. But his tuning, and his service and customer support is absolutely unbeatable. especially at the price for a LIFETIME tune. none of that limited time type tunes.

I highly recommend his services, products, and knowledge.

Thanks Adam!

 

[jeff]

Still need explaining on this...not doubting Adams skill here, but the Cobb stage 3 maps when compared to stage 2 maps show very clear hp and tq gains especially in the high rev range, which seems to be the opposite of what I'm hearing on this thread....please help me understand, I'm about to add FMIC and maybe DP but I really need to know how this apparent conflict is resolved. There are two very different schools of thought being presented on this forum, to a newcomer it is quite confusing.

I am speaking specifically to the addition of a downpipe and its effect on the car.

 

[Kip2MyLou]

Okay,
So here is my review on Tune+ (Adam). The tune is finished up and I spent about an hour driving around today making sure that there was nothing else I needed to log for Adam to be revised. First off, I can truly say this is the best tune I've had on this car. It is smooth, idles great, makes good power and the log numbers are on point. Note my mods in my signature to see my mod level with this tune. Adam is extremely easy to work with and very quick. He responds quickly to emails and with revisions...sometimes within the hour but no more than a day. If you are considering Tune+ for your tune, do not hesitate. Below is my final datalog/ datazap and a few videos with the Tune+ tune installed.

http://datazap.me/u/jpgc/jpgc-tune-iwa-datalog-20151222?log=0&data=5-8

https://youtu.be/OwDWNgMduRE
https://youtu.be/9wieX3VgXXw
https://youtu.be/u_YpzZ8Mh5I

Is that with or without the IWG?

 

[JPGC]

With

 

[Kip2MyLou]

With

Cool. Now I just need to figure out how to read it. Haha.

 

[jayrod1980]

Still need explaining on this...not doubting Adams skill here, but the Cobb stage 3 maps when compared to stage 2 maps show very clear hp and tq gains especially in the high rev range, which seems to be the opposite of what I'm hearing on this thread....please help me understand, I'm about to add FMIC and maybe DP but I really need to know how this apparent conflict is resolved. There are two very different schools of thought being presented on this forum, to a newcomer it is quite confusing.

I am speaking specifically to the addition of a downpipe and its effect on the car.

I know he addressed you specifically in a post about how the Downpipe reduces back pressure too much, making the stock turbo run out of steam faster in the rev band. His tune with IC and Catback is Amazing. That's what I started with. There's a noticeable gain in power across the board and smoother acceleration with the wastegate actuator as well!

Bottom line, buy a good Catback exhaust... There are many of them out there, Cobb, MAP, and FSWerks make some of the quieter ones, instead of a Downpipe.

If you want to make gains from Adam I would say to go this route. There are other tuners out there with different ideas on this but even Adam's daily FiST has a stock Downpipe. It's when you go with an upgraded turbo that you should go with an aftermarket downpipe.

 

[Tune+]

Still need explaining on this...not doubting Adams skill here, but the Cobb stage 3 maps when compared to stage 2 maps show very clear hp and tq gains especially in the high rev range, which seems to be the opposite of what I'm hearing on this thread....please help me understand, I'm about to add FMIC and maybe DP but I really need to know how this apparent conflict is resolved. There are two very different schools of thought being presented on this forum, to a newcomer it is quite confusing.

I am speaking specifically to the addition of a downpipe and its effect on the car.

I guess I'm a little confused. As Jay mentioned I addressed it in another thread and we spoke on the phone. I'm not sure where the confusion still lies.

I recommend reading a post I wrote up in response to some doubters, nobody questioned it after reading this page top to bottom.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...ing-Intake-Downpipe-Exhaust-Turbo-Kit)/page31

I did actual real testing on it, and when a product didn't make gains that we produced I was open and honest about it and didn't lie to the customer base. That is the biggest difference between myself and other vendors/manufacturers. I won't lie to the customer to sell a product, I only sell products that I would use myself.

 

[jeff]

I know he addressed you specifically in a post about how the Downpipe reduces back pressure too much, making the stock turbo run out of steam faster in the rev band. His tune with IC and Catback is Amazing. That's what I started with. There's a noticeable gain in power across the board and smoother acceleration with the wastegate actuator as well!

Bottom line, buy a good Catback exhaust... There are many of them out there, Cobb, MAP, and FSWerks make some of the quieter ones, instead of a Downpipe.

If you want to make gains from Adam I would say to go this route. There are other tuners out there with different ideas on this but even Adam's daily FiST has a stock Downpipe. It's when you go with an upgraded turbo that you should go with an aftermarket downpipe.

Thanks, yes as I keep saying I completely understand the logic here. And I believe that Adam's tunes are truly producing the performance that all the reviewers claim, no doubt.

The part I am confused about and that still hasn't been addressed is simply this - there are two conflicting statements/data floating around, they are:

STATEMENT ONE - a downpipe is not helpful with a stock turbo, rather it reduces power especially in the higher range of the rpms....
vs.
STATEMENT TWO - Cobb, a company that's been around for a long time, is selling a downpipe to the masses and showing dynos that are objective proof that adding a downpipe and OTS tune increases hp and tq noticeably, and quite significantly in the higher range of the rpms...specifically +9% HP/ + 12% TQ (Cobb's website) and + 7HP/ +15 FTLBS/TQ (smoking tire dude on youtube). These are not from stock to downpipe numbers - these are from stage 2 to downpipe numbers.

See, the two contradict one another. One person says no power gain with a downpipe in the higher rev range, another person (s) say and demonstrate the opposite.

That is where I am confused.

I guess I'm a little confused. As Jay mentioned I addressed it in another thread and we spoke on the phone. I'm not sure where the confusion still lies.

I recommend reading a post I wrote up in response to some doubters, nobody questioned it after reading this page top to bottom.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...ing-Intake-Downpipe-Exhaust-Turbo-Kit)/page31

I did actual real testing on it, and when a product didn't make gains that we produced I was open and honest about it and didn't lie to the customer base. That is the biggest difference between myself and other vendors/manufacturers. I won't lie to the customer to sell a product, I only sell products that I would use myself.

Yes and I thank you for the brief but helpful discussion we had on the phone the other day, and for your replies to my questions. I am not doubting you at all, I keep emphasizing this - I just am having trouble as a logical thinking person who is new to this platform and who is reading two opposing viewpoints here. Obviously I want the best for my car, and your prices are fair and your customer service are exemplary. Just wanting to understand before pursuing my mod plans any further.

 

[Tune+]

Thanks, yes as I keep saying I completely understand the logic here. And I believe that Adam's tunes are truly producing the performance that all the reviewers claim, no doubt.

The part I am confused about and that still hasn't been addressed is simply this - there are two conflicting statements/data floating around, they are:

STATEMENT ONE - a downpipe is not helpful with a stock turbo, rather it reduces power especially in the higher range of the rpms....
vs.
STATEMENT TWO - Cobb, a company that's been around for a long time, is selling a downpipe to the masses and showing dynos that are objective proof that adding a downpipe and OTS tune increases hp and tq noticeably, and quite significantly in the higher range of the rpms...specifically +9% HP/ + 12% TQ (Cobb's website) and + 7HP/ +15 FTLBS/TQ (smoking tire dude on youtube). These are not from stock to downpipe numbers - these are from stage 2 to downpipe numbers.

See, the two contradict one another. One person says no power gain with a downpipe in the higher rev range, another person (s) say and demonstrate the opposite.

That is where I am confused.



Yes and I thank you for the brief but helpful discussion we had on the phone the other day, and for your replies to my questions. I am not doubting you at all, I keep emphasizing this - I just am having trouble as a logical thinking person who is new to this platform and who is reading two opposing viewpoints here. Obviously I want the best for my car, and your prices are fair and your customer service are exemplary. Just wanting to understand before pursuing my mod plans any further.

The only way I think you are going to wrap your head around it is by telling yourself which one you believe. Either A.) A company that sells it's own products and only tunes them on one car in one dyno in one climate or B.) A company that tunes hundreds of vehicles of the same platform, sold and manufactured products for 15 years, does extensive testing on products and gives logical explanations on why something does and does not work.

Company A gives you one side and no reason why
Company B gives you both sides and gives you reasons why and why not

Imagine all the of the things people would buy if there wasn't one person to come around and tell the consumers it doesn't work as advertised? Intake turbo inserts, ecu chip resistors, Nology plugs wires, Mobil 1 oil haha.

The downpipe is a special situation as the product I tested was one that I manufactured as well, and it is one of the best designed. I even went a step further and we made a 2.5" version which also showed the same results.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...haust-Turbo-Kit)?p=98935&viewfull=1#post98935

Again, a thread I made when I was with MAPerformance. It would of benefited us greatly if the downpipe made power or I made it seem like it made power. However I provided data that showed it had NEGATIVE impact on the vehicle and I immediately recommended to stick with the stock downpipe and gave a reason why, and a timeline of when to upgrade the downpipe (turbo upgrade.).

Please don't take my post as a smart reply, some people misread how things are put I'm just giving my honest thought and no way I'm I thinking you are telling me I'm wrong, I see the confusion. Also, nothing against Cobb at all I work with them VERY closely.

 

[jeff]

The only way I think you are going to wrap your head around it is by telling yourself which one you believe. Either A.) A company that sells it's own products and only tunes them on one car in one dyno in one climate or B.) A company that tunes hundreds of vehicles of the same platform, sold and manufactured products for 15 years, does extensive testing on products and gives logical explanations on why something does and does not work.

Company A gives you one side and no reason why
Company B gives you both sides and gives you reasons why and why not

Imagine all the of the things people would buy if there wasn't one person to come around and tell the consumers it doesn't work as advertised? Intake turbo inserts, ecu chip resistors, Nology plugs wires, Mobil 1 oil haha.

The downpipe is a special situation as the product I tested was one that I manufactured as well, and it is one of the best designed. I even went a step further and we made a 2.5" version which also showed the same results.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...haust-Turbo-Kit)?p=98935&viewfull=1#post98935

Again, a thread I made when I was with MAPerformance. It would of benefited us greatly if the downpipe made power or I made it seem like it made power. However I provided data that showed it had NEGATIVE impact on the vehicle and I immediately recommended to stick with the stock downpipe and gave a reason why, and a timeline of when to upgrade the downpipe (turbo upgrade.).

Please don't take my post as a smart reply, some people misread how things are put I'm just giving my honest thought and no way I'm I thinking you are telling me I'm wrong, I see the confusion. Also, nothing against Cobb at all I work with them VERY closely.

Thank you for acknowledging my confusion. I was beginning to feel like a crazy person. I did not take anything negative from your reply and I appreciate that you are trying to be so helpful. To me it's simply a matter of looking at the facts and making the best decision. Since Cobb's data is clear proof, or one would think, that their mod pathway is the way to go, naturally I would be confused when I read your stuff that says the opposite. Again I appreciate that you acknowledge that.

My conclusion is that in a sense you are both right. I just don't think that the Cobb folks, nor the smoking tire guy on YouTube, nor all the other people who have give a positive review after a downpipe addition, are lying or being misleading. I think their numbers are real. But I also think that you are on to something here and that your tuning expertise can obviously go far beyond any off the shelf map, and that your mod path for the Fiesta ST, while different from the one Cobb suggests, also brings improvements.

So "who will I believe"? I suppose both - understanding that company A has made a one-size fits all product that gives basic gains, while company B has specialized in their product and takes it to the next level.

Trust me Adam, I want to have complete faith in you and what you are saying - it means that (A) I sell my downpipe and get more money for other mods, (B) I don't have to install my downpipe, which will save me time, (C) I use you to tune my car at a distance instead of driving several hours one way to do so.

Having said that, I am considering installing my downpipe and then having you tune the car because at the rate I am going (owned car only 5 weeks, already at 'stage 1' + CAI, already have DP and exhaust hangers in garage, FMIC on order...) it is quite possible that I end up upgrading the turbo at some point down the line.

 

[Kip2MyLou]

Thank you for acknowledging my confusion. I was beginning to feel like a crazy person. I did not take anything negative from your reply and I appreciate that you are trying to be so helpful. To me it's simply a matter of looking at the facts and making the best decision. Since Cobb's data is clear proof, or one would think, that their mod pathway is the way to go, naturally I would be confused when I read your stuff that says the opposite. Again I appreciate that you acknowledge that.

My conclusion is that in a sense you are both right. I just don't think that the Cobb folks, nor the smoking tire guy on YouTube, nor all the other people who have give a positive review after a downpipe addition, are lying or being misleading. I think their numbers are real. But I also think that you are on to something here and that your tuning expertise can obviously go far beyond any off the shelf map, and that your mod path for the Fiesta ST, while different from the one Cobb suggests, also brings improvements.

So "who will I believe"? I suppose both - understanding that company A has made a one-size fits all product that gives basic gains, while company B has specialized in their product and takes it to the next level.

Trust me Adam, I want to have complete faith in you and what you are saying - it means that (A) I sell my downpipe and get more money for other mods, (B) I don't have to install my downpipe, which will save me time, (C) I use you to tune my car at a distance instead of driving several hours one way to do so.

Having said that, I am considering installing my downpipe and then having you tune the car because at the rate I am going (owned car only 5 weeks, already at 'stage 1' + CAI, already have DP and exhaust hangers in garage, FMIC on order...) it is quite possible that I end up upgrading the turbo at some point down the line.

You also have to take in account that people posting numbers with the downpipes usually do it right after loading a new map. So technically it's not just the downpipe giving them gains, but a combo of the pipe AND the new ECU map.

Adam has results showing just the downpipe installed with no new ECU tuning at all. That shows what the downpipe does all by itself; which is very little.

 

[jeff]

You also have to take in account that people posting numbers with the downpipes usually do it right after loading a new map. So technically it's not just the downpipe giving them gains, but a combo of the pipe AND the new ECU map.

Adam has results showing just the downpipe installed with no new ECU tuning at all. That shows what the downpipe does all by itself; which is very little.

Very true, thanks for that....but isn't (according to the downpipe supporters like Cobb) the whole point of adding a piece of hardware so that it will allow the software (tune) to make more power safely? So it goes without saying that adding a downpipe requires a new tune to get the performance benefits.

 

[JasonHaven]

Jeff, the only way you're going to get a good answer is to talk to multiple pro-tuners, or to do individual testing yourself, of multiple downpipes. Adam has no reason to lie to you about this right now, and he has experience tuning multiple Fiestas here, and as far as I know, is no longer tied to one company. In fact in multiple of his guides (at least on FB) he recommends a variety of different parts from different manufacturers based on his own findings. Not just straight down the line for one company or another.

Cobb, and any other mod maker, stay in business by profiting off of parts sales. That's the number one goal, profits. Sometimes profits and results line up, sometimes results have to be fudged so the profits can still happen. This happens in every business, and some companies do it more than others, but frankly reality requires one to be a little cynical of self testing on one's own parts.

Note: this is not me insinuating that one company or another is explicitly lying, but I'm just commenting on the nature of capitalism.

 

[JasonHaven]

Jeff, the only way you're going to get a good answer is to talk to multiple pro-tuners, or to do individual testing yourself, of multiple downpipes. Adam has no reason to lie to you about this right now, and he has experience tuning multiple Fiestas here, and as far as I know, is no longer tied to one company. In fact in multiple of his guides (at least on FB) he recommends a variety of different parts from different manufacturers based on his own findings. Not just straight down the line for one company or another.

Cobb, and any other mod maker, stay in business by profiting off of parts sales. That's the number one goal, profits. Sometimes profits and results line up, sometimes results have to be fudged so the profits can still happen. This happens in every business, and some companies do it more than others, but frankly reality requires one to be a little cynical of self testing on one's own parts.

Note: this is not me insinuating that one company or another is explicitly lying, but I'm just commenting on the nature of capitalism.

 

[jeff]

Jeff, the only way you're going to get a good answer is to talk to multiple pro-tuners, or to do individual testing yourself, of multiple downpipes. Adam has no reason to lie to you about this right now, and he has experience tuning multiple Fiestas here, and as far as I know, is no longer tied to one company. In fact in multiple of his guides (at least on FB) he recommends a variety of different parts from different manufacturers based on his own findings. Not just straight down the line for one company or another.

Cobb, and any other mod maker, stay in business by profiting off of parts sales. That's the number one goal, profits. Sometimes profits and results line up, sometimes results have to be fudged so the profits can still happen. This happens in every business, and some companies do it more than others, but frankly reality requires one to be a little cynical of self testing on one's own parts.

Note: this is not me insinuating that one company or another is explicitly lying, but I'm just commenting on the nature of capitalism.

Thanks for this. Again I never said or even hinted that Adam or Cobb was lying to anyone. I have read a good bit from both perspectives, pored over Dyno charts from both sides of this debate, read the articles that Adam sent me, along with others I've found. I'm just a new guy here with a new Fiesta ST which I love and wish to mod in a safe and prudent way. I don't care about huge numbers and I don't want the car to blow up, I'm just making a great car a bit better like many of us. In the process I don't want to drink anyone's Kool Aid.

As I said before I have concluded that there is some truth and great perspective on both sides of this debate.

 

[jayrod1980]

Think of it another way... Cobb makes an excellent DP. It isn't useless. If you go cyborg or bigger you definitely want a freer flow DP. In most other turbo cars a bigger DP is warranted. In this specific application with the tiny snail we have in our cars it isn't productive... The same way 2.5 inch exhaust is more beneficial than a 3 inch on such a small motor and turbo.