What oil brand do you use on your Fiesta ST?

[jmrtsus]

I used those words as I have for life on motor oil ad copy.....you implied it was hard to say if it is better. The studies show it is better and less harmful than some of the older additives like the zinc.

What I am saying is in 40 years of maintaining cars and building/rebuilding engines that we enthusiasts get bombarded by snake oil salesmen in the car mags and TV shows, Starting with oil additives from the STP and Wynn's Indy 500 days. My first "job" out of the military was as a flunkie at a buy here/ pay here used car lot. We bought junk cars "fixed" them then "sold" them. The buyer never saw a title so we could repossess at any time. We put 2 quarts of 90 weight gear oil in cars burning oil after all that is all STP was at $10 a Quart and the bulk gear oils was about $30 for 20 gallons. We packed worn manual transmissions with wheel bearing grease, sawdust in leaking cooling systems and a hundred other ways to get the car "sold" then when they bring it back charge them to "fix" what THEY broke. The thing with motor oil is in reality the largest markets are fleet and manufactures needs. Most oil testing is done for these markets where an extra 2000 miles per vehicle times thousands of vehicles mean millions in savings. Think AT&T and the USPS and the Government motor pool. So I look for industry testing to evaluate oil, opinions are taken with a grain of salt. For example I have a son that make a good living on GM LS engines. I helped assemble the latest 6.2L he put in his Trans Am. We agree on very little as I am Ford and through some genetic abnormalities he is GM. I used and loved Quaker State in the 70's and used it like crazy, he is of the opinion that any LS engine that ever used it should be sold for scrap! Or the semi-religious devotion to Mobil 1 by some car nuts.

So we all make choices, but I think the Kendall Liquid Titanium additives have been around since 2008 and I have seen nothing that makes any claims to improvements over its ability to reduce friction. The Fords ad copy on their full Synthetic (Kendall GT1) oil touts the friction reduction without mentioning the Titanium. To Ford that means milage gains, to fleets it means long term savings. I am happy to get both for my Fifi! If I seemed harsh I am sorry but titanium is a proven additive improvement. It is indeed certified by Ford.


Kendall GT1
5w-20
ILSAC GF-5
API Service SN with Resource Conserving
Chrysler MS-6395 (Rev. T)
Ford WSS-M2C945-A
GM6094M

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Nope, not 'harsh' at all, and THANK YOU for that 945-A spec info on the GT1/Max!

I now have to seriously consider ordering that oil on the net.

LOL on the familial Ford vs. Chevy thing (I have the same type of deal concerning politics/worldviews with my 2 sons, especially the older one).

I also hear you on the Mobil 1 'worship' by LSx owners, which was only rivaled by the 'German Castrol' Euro 0W-30 oil deification by many of my fellow LS1 f body owners/drivers.

The other 'old mechanic's tale', old school myth thing (besides the QS hate) is the whole Pennzoil Yellow Bottle dino oil "waxing up" your engine with sludge, (due to way too much 'slack wax' in it's base stocks?), even if changed every 2K miles!!

 

[ron@whoosh]

I used those words as I have for life on motor oil ad copy.....you implied it was hard to say if it is better. The studies show it is better and less harmful than some of the older additives like the zinc.

What I am saying is in 40 years of maintaining cars and building/rebuilding engines that we enthusiasts get bombarded by snake oil salesmen in the car mags and TV shows, Starting with oil additives from the STP and Wynn's Indy 500 days. My first "job" out of the military was as a flunkie at a buy here/ pay here used car lot. We bought junk cars "fixed" them then "sold" them. The buyer never saw a title so we could repossess at any time. We put 2 quarts of 90 weight gear oil in cars burning oil after all that is all STP was at $10 a Quart and the bulk gear oils was about $30 for 20 gallons. We packed worn manual transmissions with wheel bearing grease, sawdust in leaking cooling systems and a hundred other ways to get the car "sold" then when they bring it back charge them to "fix" what THEY broke. The thing with motor oil is in reality the largest markets are fleet and manufactures needs. Most oil testing is done for these markets where an extra 2000 miles per vehicle times thousands of vehicles mean millions in savings. Think AT&T and the USPS and the Government motor pool. So I look for industry testing to evaluate oil, opinions are taken with a grain of salt. For example I have a son that make a good living on GM LS engines. I helped assemble the latest 6.2L he put in his Trans Am. We agree on very little as I am Ford and through some genetic abnormalities he is GM. I used and loved Quaker State in the 70's and used it like crazy, he is of the opinion that any LS engine that ever used it should be sold for scrap! Or the semi-religious devotion to Mobil 1 by some car nuts.

So we all make choices, but I think the Kendall Liquid Titanium additives have been around since 2008 and I have seen nothing that makes any claims to improvements over its ability to reduce friction. The Fords ad copy on their full Synthetic (Kendall GT1) oil touts the friction reduction without mentioning the Titanium. To Ford that means milage gains, to fleets it means long term savings. I am happy to get both for my Fifi! If I seemed harsh I am sorry but titanium is a proven additive improvement. It is indeed certified by Ford.


Kendall GT1
5w-20
ILSAC GF-5
API Service SN with Resource Conserving
Chrysler MS-6395 (Rev. T)
Ford WSS-M2C945-A
GM6094M

great post!

 

[Kazz]

Kendall GT-1 5w-20 with Titanium additive - which?

https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-1057251-AMC-12PK-Performance-Synthetic-Titanium/dp/B004RNJYW6

https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-1057228-Synthetic-Liquid-Titanium/dp/B00DOV2PS2

 

[M-Sport fan]

Kendall GT-1 5w-20 with Titanium additive - which?

https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-1057251-AMC-12PK-Performance-Synthetic-Titanium/dp/B004RNJYW6

https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-1057228-Synthetic-Liquid-Titanium/dp/B00DOV2PS2

Either one is very good, but I personally would only use the version labelled "Full Synthetic" in mine.

jmrtsus has to tell us where he found it for ~$4.00/qt. though.

 

[jmrtsus]

One is the blend the other the full synthetic. It was on sale when they still had the old label containers. Now called GT1 MAX and both the blend and full synthetic have the liquid titanium.

http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-full-synthetic-5w-20-1/ $38.21 per 12 QT. $3.18 QT Shipping to me is $17.00 $4.58 QT delivered $4.33 QT if you order 24.


If you are just looking for a Ford approved Synthetic blend they have this on closeout probably for a label change also. From what I learned on the various Phillips sites is that all the blends are the same, Phillips 66 Tropartic, Union 76 and the older Kendall.

76 SUPER SYNTHETIC BLEND 5W-20 | 12/1 QUART CASE
76 Lubricants / 1043436
$26.95


Also a Phillips product and the same as the older Motorcraft blend (no titanium) for $2.25 Qt plus shipping! ($3.66 delivered for me).

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^THANKS!

I wonder if they would let me pick it up at their facility, the next time I'm up there for a concert or such?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I'll say this one last time....Check out your local Autozone if there are any in the area as they will Axe oil prices for top brands just to get it moved to make room for new oil or there was a label change. I was snagging Mobil 1 ep...castrol titanium and magnatec....synthetic Trans fluid all for around $1.80 - $2.00 per Qt. ....check back every month because you might just hit the mother load just like I have a couple of times. I have enough oil to go for years of driving. Just an FYI....

 

[Quisp]

^^^Nope, not 'harsh' at all, and THANK YOU for that 945-A spec info on the GT1/Max!

I now have to seriously consider ordering that oil on the net.

LOL on the familial Ford vs. Chevy thing (I have the same type of deal concerning politics/worldviews with my 2 sons, especially the older one).

I also hear you on the Mobil 1 'worship' by LSx owners, which was only rivaled by the 'German Castrol' Euro 0W-30 oil deification by many of my fellow LS1 f body owners/drivers.

The other 'old mechanic's tale', old school myth thing (besides the QS hate) is the whole Pennzoil Yellow Bottle dino oil "waxing up" your engine with sludge, (due to way too much 'slack wax' in it's base stocks?), even if changed every 2K miles!!

Wasn't Penzoil and Quaker parrifin based back in the day? My dad had a 69 Maruder 390 using Quaker and changed regularly and the valve covers were loaded with a thick build up .

 

[jmrtsus]

Paraffin is a byproduct of all crude oil. Many older cars suffered so called "sludge". This was a function of water in the oil. The old breather caps allowed outside moisture to enter then turn to steam and work its way into the oil. Engines ran much cooler then and short drives did not completely dry out the moisture. Today we use a sealed system and the engines run much hotter. So the so called "sludge" does not form as easily. Even Synthetics come from Dino petroleum oil or natural gas. Baby oil and food grade mineral oil come from dino oil. Dino is not all bad, it is much improved by conversion to "synthetic" oil. Our engines today, especially turbo engines like the ST's require an oil with high temperature stability and life. Ford recommends EITHER a blend or Full synthetic oil for our cars. Which is "better"? The plus to "full Synthetic" is a top grade uses petroleum that is pure then adds the chemical additives packages depending on the brand. The Blends use this same Synthetic in a proportion to give the benefits of the Full Synthetic at a lower cost and to cater to us "old" guys that believe Dino oils are better for break-in as it allows more friction to polish in the moving parts. Oil is a very personal thing in a car enthusiasts quest for the "best" for their car.

I just did some checking....over 190 MILLION quarts of motor oil is used annually in the US. And that is divided between how many brands? Many of which are the exact same formula as others. I would love to know how much is spent on marketing for the "best" oil?

My FiST with the Mountune MP215 produces 2.24 HP per cubic inch and is the first car I have had that I fell demands a Full Synthetic oil for longevity. So why not use one that is as pure as baby oil and offers a proven friction improvement at a cost that is not crazy? Is Kendall GT1 Max the "best" oil? Not unless you can find it and it just does not get shelf space in the big box stores or parts stores. Until the Motorcraft version becomes available again online seems the best option for this oil. I am lazy and in truth unable to lift much right now due to surgery so $4.60 a quart on my doorstep is good for me! Ask ten people and you will get ten opinions. I am sure the top ten oils would all make me happy. Maybe I just like the "peace" sign on the label. BTW is was actually the number "two" as Kendall was the first motor oil to advertise 2000 mile oil changes! The best advice I ever got from an old mechanic was "change ya damn earl"! Wrench on!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Maybe I just like the "peace" sign on the label. BTW is was actually the number "two" as Kendall was the first motor oil to advertise 2000 mile oil changes!

That IS interesting, as I always just took for granted that it was the V for victory sign, as in RACING victories.

 

[jmrtsus]

I thought it was a "V" also. I also thought Kendall was a British Oil as I remember seeing the signs on the European circuits TV coverage in the 60's. That was when I fell in love with small sedans like the BMW 1600 and 2002 and the Mini and Fiat Abarths. Also why I drive a FiST! My first car was a 1959 Fiat 600D. Turns out Kendall was one of the original Pennsylvania oils like Quaker State and Pennzoil. Did you know that the Penn Oils were considered to be better than other oils in the day as the molecules were longer which gave the oil better life and better lubrication. Hence Kendall's first 2000 mile oil change interval. I understand the fields dried up years ago. I did lots of technical training for some of the oil companies and looked at the early history of American Oil companies and found it interesting. Kendall actually has done several firsts including the first Quart container setting the oil sales standard. They also invented and patented the "Liquid Titanium" compound in 2008 for commercial oils.

 

[Quisp]

Didn't the Pennsylvania oils contain more paraffin. Hense the bad rep ?

 

[M-Sport fan]

Some people STILL think the Pennsyltuckey crude makes the best (dino/mineral based) oil, hence the popularity of the Brad Penn oils, made right in the old Kendall refinery in Bradford, Pa.

They claim to still use Penn crude, sourced from within a 200 mile radius of the refinery, but HOW any is still left in the ground here is a mystery to me.

 

[jmrtsus]

I suspect they still have many "stripper wells", the ones that look like a cricket going up and down. The large scale pumping stopped long ago from what I read. Paraffin is removed in the distillation process as it is a highly salable product for candles and food processing.....most of the "bad" rep is from competitors. I believe many oil companies still offer free warranties on cars that use their oil. I have never used one as very few engine failures are caused by bad oil! Nor have any tests shown that Penn oil is anything short of top quality crude. In the day the other companies were green with envy for the base oils produced by these fields. One of my sons rebuilds GM LS engines. MANY are so filled with sludge it is a joke, some people just do not change their oil! Any oil will work well if changed frequently, the premium oils will add additional additives that may or may not do a bit of good. Go with an oil that has been independently tested as every maker will tell you theirs is better. And for every fan of a brand you will find people that will swear it is solely responsible for all engine failures known to man and they know first hand because their bosses cousin goes fishing with a guy whose son in law told him a certified mechanic told his wife's hairdresser it was true! Solid proof that it (whichever brand) is trash and made from used crayons. Buying oil is like buying deodorant.......many brands that almost all contain the same ingredients except for smell and packaging yet people will argue in favor of their favorite as the "best". And in Europe they think the best is none! (pet peeve!)

so, "Change ya earl"! Often!

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^+1, in general, but IF one is stressing their engine/oil to the 'limits' often enough there ARE some differences (at least among the non-certified, beyond API SN/SP, GF5/GF6/GF6A specs).

AGREED that it is a good practice to change often, (despite the high TBN claims of 10K to 25K mile oils) ESPECIALLY with these cars and their small, high power density, direct injected (spelled; FUEL DILUTION!), turbo which is engine oil cooled and lubricated, setups.

I just got off the phone with Penn Grade 1 oils, and was asking about their full synthetic "Select" 5W-20, which is 'approved' for the Ford 945-A spec (but not with a paid to Ford 'certification', just like Amsoil's Sig Series).
IF I can find it locally, I may also try this option.

I found out that Penn Grade (owned by DA Oils) bought Brad Penn in it's entirety, and that now only the mineral based oils are made in the Bradford refinery, with everything else (full synthetics, blends) being blended at their Lebanon, Indiana facility which has much greater access to 'synthetic' base stocks.

As usual, they could not tell me whether or not their "full synthetics" are ALL group 3 base stock or not (the old 'proprietary' routine/song and dance), but he did seem to think that there was some group 4/POE in it.

 

[ron@whoosh]

^^^+1, in general, but IF one is stressing their engine/oil to the 'limits' often enough there ARE some differences (at least among the non-certified, beyond API SN/SP, GF5/GF6/GF6A specs).

AGREED that it is a good practice to change often, (despite the high TBN claims of 10K to 25K mile oils) ESPECIALLY with these cars and their small, high power density, direct injected (spelled; FUEL DILUTION!), turbo which is engine oil cooled and lubricated, setups.

I just got off the phone with Penn Grade 1 oils, and was asking about their full synthetic "Select" 5W-20, which is 'approved' for the Ford 945-A spec (but not with a paid to Ford 'certification', just like Amsoil's Sig Series).
IF I can find it locally, I may also try this option.

I found out that Penn Grade (owned by DA Oils) bought Brad Penn in it's entirety, and that now only the mineral based oils are made in the Bradford refinery, with everything else (full synthetics, blends) being blended at their Lebanon, Indiana facility which has much greater access to 'synthetic' base stocks.

As usual, they could not tell me whether or not their "full synthetics" are ALL group 3 base stock or not (the old 'proprietary' routine/song and dance), but he did seem to think that there was some group 4/POE in it.

have you actually changed your oil yet?

lol

 

[M-Sport fan]

have you actually changed your oil yet?

lol

Currently on the first change from ~1100 miles on the factory fill.

I used some Sino Mart bought Castrol Edge EP 5W-20 (gold bottle), and an FL-400S filter.

I will do the second change at ~2600 miles, have not decided yet what it will get at that time.

What was revealing today when I spoke to Dave (THE tech at Red Line Oil), is that their 5W-20 (or any other weight they offer) absolutely could NOT satisfy the Ford 945-A spec since it has WAY TOO MUCH ZDDP in it to qualify for this spec (whether or not they pay Ford's fee for certification or not).

This differs from many other synthetic 'boutique' oils (Amsoil Sig Series in particular) in that they DO meet the Ford spec due to lower, GF5/SN ZDDP levels, even if they also did not pay for the actual certification.
So Ford would NOT have a (Magnuson Moss Act) legal 'leg to stand on' IF they tried to deny an engine warranty due to using the Amsoil product.
Amsoil also has a strong legal department which they swear they will use to defend you against any denials of engine warranties by manufacturers due to use of their products.

NOT the case for Red Line users (as much as I LOVE their products!), who CAN BE denied engine warranties for using a non-approved oil, yes, IF Ford can prove it is what caused the failure, which as long as it costs them less than an engine replacement to test and find out (even a spectral analysis might cost them less than this), I can guarantee they WILL try like the devil to do.

 

[jmrtsus]

The solution to all the guesswork on warranty coverage is to use what Ford recommends......they have a much better reason than a fee to certify independant oils. Like the longevity of their products. In 53 years of driving I have never had an engine failure due to lubrication failure. That is why so many oil companies have free engine warranties with the use of their oils. Very, very few claims. I have found Syn Blends from national oil companies for as little as $2.25 a QT. for Union 76 5w20 plus shipping that meets Ford specs. Or for me $3.66 QT. delivered. This Philips product is most likely the same as the Motorcraft Blend. The point is that good oil is not expensive unless you pay way too much for the marketing hype. Just change it often and all will be OK! And search online for your oil....save money and your back!

 

[Flaco]

I changed from Valvoline Synthetic Blend (at the quick change shop) to Castrol Edge full Synthetic just because..... do it myself is cheaper.