What oil brand do you use on your Fiesta ST?

[jmrtsus]

Currently on the first change from ~1100 miles on the factory fill.

I used some Sino Mart bought Castrol Edge EP 5W-20 (gold bottle), and an FL-400S filter.

I will do the second change at ~2600 miles, have not decided yet what it will get at that time.

What was revealing today when I spoke to Dave (THE tech at Red Line Oil), is that their 5W-20 (or any other weight they offer) absolutely could NOT satisfy the Ford 945-A spec since it has WAY TOO MUCH ZDDP in it to qualify for this spec (whether or not they pay Ford's fee for certification or not).

This differs from many other synthetic 'boutique' oils (Amsoil Sig Series in particular) in that they DO meet the Ford spec due to lower, GF5/SN ZDDP levels, even if they also did not pay for the actual certification.
So Ford would NOT have a (Magnuson Moss Act) legal 'leg to stand on' IF they tried to deny an engine warranty due to using the Amsoil product.
Amsoil also has a strong legal department which they swear they will use to defend you against any denials of engine warranties by manufacturers due to use of their products.

NOT the case for Red Line users (as much as I LOVE their products!), who CAN BE denied engine warranties for using a non-approved oil, yes, IF Ford can prove it is what caused the failure, which as long as it costs them less than an engine replacement to test and find out (even a spectral analysis might cost them less than this), I can guarantee they WILL try like the devil to do.

I went to 5K on the Motorcraft blend with one change at 1200 and the other at 5K, old school but I prefer to break in with some Dino oil then switch to full Synthetic. Seems Ford does too as they give you an option for either on our cars.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The solution to all the guesswork on warranty coverage is to use what Ford recommends......they have a much better reason than a fee to certify independant oils. Like the longevity of their products. In 53 years of driving I have never had an engine failure due to lubrication failure. That is why so many oil companies have free engine warranties with the use of their oils. Very, very few claims. I have found Syn Blends from national oil companies for as little as $2.25 a QT. for Union 76 5w20 plus shipping that meets Ford specs. Or for me $3.66 QT. delivered. This Philips product is most likely the same as the Motorcraft Blend. The point is that good oil is not expensive unless you pay way too much for the marketing hype. Just change it often and all will be OK! And search online for your oil....save money and your back!

In order to maintain the power train warranty for everyday, 'normal' use, I could not agree more.

But, for those who actually DO use their cars well outside of that given 'normal' service use i.e.; 3-4 25+ minute open track sessions both weekend days most every weekend of the season, hot lapping drag racing/test and tuning sessions, half mile/mile, or long 'open road' races (Silver State, etc.), PLUS some daily use, then the "over priced" and 'hyped' boutique oils are NOT a waste, and DO have benefits.

Now if the people using their FiSTs in the above manner want to change out the 945-A certified oils after EVERY session/race day, then yes, they will probably be OK using them in this WAY BEYOND "severe service" manner, for which I highly DOUBT the Ford power train engineers expect their 'approved' oils to stand up to without major shearing and breaking down.

BOTH the (minuscule yes) CAFE benefits of the thinner oils now specced, AND the emissions/EPA mandates of lesser anti-wear/anti-friction add packs (along with the higher costs of better base stock/add pack oils) HAD TO HAVE HAD at least some impact on their (the Ford engineers') oil spec choices.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I went to 5K on the Motorcraft blend with one change at 1200 and the other at 5K, old school but I prefer to break in with some Dino oil then switch to full Synthetic. Seems Ford does too as they give you an option for either on our cars.

IF the Castrol Edge was a TRUE Group 4 PAO/Group 5 POE base stock "full synthetic" (like the over-priced to you, 'boutique' oils), then yes, I would NOT have used it so soon.

But given it is some sort of Infineum/Visom, super hydro-cracked Group 3 type of base stock, I felt NO harm, No foul in using it so soon.

 

[ron@whoosh]

Currently on the first change from ~1100 miles on the factory fill.

I used some Sino Mart bought Castrol Edge EP 5W-20 (gold bottle), and an FL-400S filter.

I will do the second change at ~2600 miles, have not decided yet what it will get at that time.

What was revealing today when I spoke to Dave (THE tech at Red Line Oil), is that their 5W-20 (or any other weight they offer) absolutely could NOT satisfy the Ford 945-A spec since it has WAY TOO MUCH ZDDP in it to qualify for this spec (whether or not they pay Ford's fee for certification or not).

This differs from many other synthetic 'boutique' oils (Amsoil Sig Series in particular) in that they DO meet the Ford spec due to lower, GF5/SN ZDDP levels, even if they also did not pay for the actual certification.
So Ford would NOT have a (Magnuson Moss Act) legal 'leg to stand on' IF they tried to deny an engine warranty due to using the Amsoil product.
Amsoil also has a strong legal department which they swear they will use to defend you against any denials of engine warranties by manufacturers due to use of their products.

NOT the case for Red Line users (as much as I LOVE their products!), who CAN BE denied engine warranties for using a non-approved oil, yes, IF Ford can prove it is what caused the failure, which as long as it costs them less than an engine replacement to test and find out (even a spectral analysis might cost them less than this), I can guarantee they WILL try like the devil to do.

Nice
I'm about to swap my engine and trans oil with Motul
I have Motul specific 5w-20 for the crankcase this round....

 

[Nickey427]

I use Schaeffer's 5W20 full syn (Supreme 9000).

 

[SoyFiesta]

Just changed to Magnatec 5W-20

 

[redox87]

Just changed to Magnatec 5W-20

Me too! Put it in yesterday

 

[FiSTofNoVA]

I'm about to give Liqui Moly 5w-30 a shot. Was using Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20

 

[GoHack]

When it comes to oil weights, even within an individual group, like 0W-30 for example, you have some brands (Full Synthetic) which tend to be on the light end, like Mobil 1 for example, vs. German Castrol, which is considered on the heavy end, with some even saying that it is pretty much a 0W-40 oil.

With that being said, how goes it when it comes to 5W-20 oils? What oil brands tend to be on the light end vs. those on the heavy end?

While I would prefer to run a 0W-30/5W-30 oil in my FiST, but if I have to run 5W-20, I would prefer a brand on the heavy end.

 

[jmrtsus]

You lost me on the "light" and "heavy" part, what are you referring to in the specs? Viscosity? You are free to run a 30 weight oil, it will not not damage the engine nor be a reason to deny a warranty, like that ever happens to a claim unless the oil was not changed. No dealer will park your car and send your oil out to be tested just so the can refuse to take Fords money to repair it. Why, what Service Manager is going to PAY labor costs to refuse money?

If you are referring to viscosity I am sure all oils companies publish their specifications. There is no "heavy" spec for the "W" side, a 5W flows 3.8 square mm per second @ 100C. The high side for 20 weight is from 5.6 to under 9.3 square mm per second @ 100C. So if you goal is to get the thickest 20 weight oil then buy a thin 30 weight. Ford had two reasons for specifying a Synthetic blend or full Synthetic 5W-20, reduced friction and reduced Zinc. The 150C rate is 20W 2.6 and 30W is 2.9 so at higher temps the 20 and 30 are only .3 apart measured in Milli Pascals per second, a 40 weight is also 2.9. The oils recommended by Ford use Titanium for reduced friction/mileage/power and a lower viscosity for the reduced friction and faster circulation/heat reduction. I do not race my car or anything else that would push my engine temps to the point of needing a higher viscosity oil. I am sure some do. I just don't see any reason to deviate from what Ford does with my engine.

 

[jmrtsus]

Thought I would share this as I have seen several posts that referred to paying "Ford" to certify oil. I was curious how they could do that as I felt antitrust laws would rule that out, so I did some research. Found out Ford indeed does not certify oil the API does and I looked up the cost, it is under $1000 for the most extensive test. Car manufacturers creates specifications for their oil and the API ( American Petroleum Institute) does the testing and Certification to insure they meet the specs. If an oil company wants to show it meets Ford or GM specs they must submit each type of oil for testing for a one time fee. Less than the price of a couple of barrels of oil.

I do not want oil in my car with heavy zinc levels. This is what the newer Ford and GM specs require is reduced levels. If a motor oil has heavy levels of zinc they will not be certified for any US NEW car that has a reduced zinc requirement.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Thought I would share this as I have seen several posts that referred to paying "Ford" to certify oil. I was curious how they could do that as I felt antitrust laws would rule that out, so I did some research. Found out Ford indeed does not certify oil the API does and I looked up the cost, it is under $1000 for the most extensive test. Car manufacturers creates specifications for their oil and the API ( American Petroleum Institute) does the testing and Certification to insure they meet the specs. If an oil company wants to show it meets Ford or GM specs they must submit each type of oil for testing for a one time fee. Less than the price of a couple of barrels of oil.

Are you SURE about those test costs, since there is NO REASON that Amsoil could not, OR would not certify their Signature Series oils at those test costs (most of those oils DO fall under the API SN/GF-5 max ZDDP levels), yet they are not certified.

Of course, not so with Red Line, as they could not be certified with their current, well over API SN/GF-5 maximum levels of ZDDP, so they should not even bother paying for the tests, and trying to be certified.

I do not want oil in my car with heavy zinc levels.

NEITHER do I, very high levels of; moly, boron, calcium, titanium, magnesium, YES, but not ZDDP.
I WISH that Red Line would make their street oils with their current (or even elevated) levels of the additives mentioned above, but with REDUCED down to below the max SN/GF-5 'legal' levels of ZDDP.

 

[M-Sport fan]

You lost me on the "light" and "heavy" part, what are you referring to in the specs? Viscosity? You are free to run a 30 weight oil, it will not not damage the engine nor be a reason to deny a warranty, like that ever happens to a claim unless the oil was not changed. No dealer will park your car and send your oil out to be tested just so the can refuse to take Fords money to repair it. Why, what Service Manager is going to PAY labor costs to refuse money?

If you are referring to viscosity I am sure all oils companies publish their specifications. There is no "heavy" spec for the "W" side, a 5W flows 3.8 square mm per second @ 100C. The high side for 20 weight is from 5.6 to under 9.3 square mm per second @ 100C. So if you goal is to get the thickest 20 weight oil then buy a thin 30 weight. Ford had two reasons for specifying a Synthetic blend or full Synthetic 5W-20, reduced friction and reduced Zinc. The 150C rate is 20W 2.6 and 30W is 2.9 so at higher temps the 20 and 30 are only .3 apart measured in Milli Pascals per second, a 40 weight is also 2.9.

It is MUCH less confusing when people just use the HTHSV number (the latter MINIMUM for the spec numbers you quote above), instead of the cSt@100*C number (the former ones mentioned above).

One can then see how the various 16/20/30/40/50/60 'weights' can be either "thicker" or "thinner" EVEN WITHIN the given HTHSV range set by the API/SAE for each of those 'weights'. (And how a very 'light' 30 weight can almost seem like it overlaps into a very 'heavy' 20 weight. )

 

[jmrtsus]

Are you SURE about those test costs, since there is NO REASON that Amsoil could not, OR would not certify their Signature Series oils at those test costs (most of those oils DO fall under the API SN/GF-5 max ZDDP levels), yet they are not certified.

Of course, not so with Red Line, as they could not be certified with their current, well over API SN/GF-5 maximum levels of ZDDP, so they should not even bother paying for the tests, and trying to be certified.



NEITHER do I, very high levels of; moly, boron, calcium, titanium, magnesium, YES, but not ZDDP.
I WISH that Red Line would make their street oils with their current (or even elevated) levels of the additives mentioned above, but with REDUCED down to below the max SN/GF-5 'legal' levels of ZDDP.

Prices are listed on the API web site.......I don't know what all the various numbered tests are for but the most expensive was $950. API is a non-profit as I understand, not a business. That is the reason I looked was the Amsoil comment. The truth has to be they know they cannot pass. Come on, in my opinion Amsoil is a pyramid scheme more than an oil company. Ford tells you to look for the API seal on oil for your car.......I believe they have good reasons to protect their products and reputation and they go into great detail in the manual on oil.

The thing about our oil is Ford cannot get into recommending a specific brand of oil. So they give you all the info to insure you use a good oil. But a little research will show what they install and sell. I don't think anyone believes Ford refines their own oil. So what the research shows is the Ford blend "was" TropArtic and now seems to have morphed to the Kendall Blend and the Ford full Synthetic is the Kendall GT1, now both Ford oils with titanium. I find it significant that Ford specs a titanium oil for the ST and for the fact Racing GT's use Castrol Edge with Titanium. The only two oils that use it, I don't think this is coincidence. It is amazing what I now know about motor oil.......should be the life of the party talking about it and use it to pick up chicks! But life is good, I have a case of the GT1 MAX! Now on to oil filters!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Most people are misinformed about Amsoil being a "pyramid scheme" company ONLY because they somehow think, and are convinced, that the company is affiliated with, or even OWNED by Amway, (which IS a pyramid scheme company) because of the first two letters of the company name being the same.
They have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with each other, and Amsoil does NOT require one to join anything, nor become a dealer, in order to purchase their products, but only to get a substantial discount, or SELL their products.

Of course Ford does not want to get into the business of requiring a specific brand of oil, since then according to the Magnuson-Moss act, they MUST supply it free to the car purchaser for the duration of the power train warranty.

That being said, one cannot go wrong using ANY of the approved/certified by Ford oils, yes maybe even especially the two titanium containing ones mentioned, for normal street use daily driving.

 

[eddietorr]

I'll be changing my oil this weekend. I'll be sending a sample out for analysis from Blackstone Labs. Once I get the results I will be sure to post it up for review.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'll be changing my oil this weekend. I'll be sending a sample out for analysis from Blackstone Labs. Once I get the results I will be sure to post it up for review.

THANKS!

First change from factory fill??

 

[eddietorr]

THANKS!

First change from factory fill??

No sadly I didn't get my sample packaging in time, this will be for Schaeffer's full synthetic 5W20 which will be my second change.

 

[M-Sport fan]

No sadly I didn't get my sample packaging in time, this will be for Schaeffer's full synthetic 5W20 which will be my second change.

Better yet, since we get to see how well their add packs and base stocks held up to the EcoBoost Sigma's shearing.

 

[jmrtsus]

Most people are misinformed about Amsoil being a "pyramid scheme" company ONLY because they somehow think, and are convinced, that the company is affiliated with, or even OWNED by Amway, (which IS a pyramid scheme company) because of the first two letters of the company name being the same.
They have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with each other, and Amsoil does NOT require one to join anything, nor become a dealer, in order to purchase their products, but only to get a substantial discount, or SELL their products.

Of course Ford does not want to get into the business of requiring a specific brand of oil, since then according to the Magnuson-Moss act, they MUST supply it free to the car purchaser for the duration of the power train warranty.

That being said, one cannot go wrong using ANY of the approved/certified by Ford oils, yes maybe even especially the two titanium containing ones mentioned, for normal street use daily driving.

My point exactly, I do not think any of the major oils are bad. On the other hand I will not use a "store" or "off" brand without knowing what is in it. I never heard the Amway thing just a brother that thought he would get rich becoming a distributor and doing research. Amsoil hates the term Pyramid and technically it is not correct. They are officially a MLM, Multi Level Marketing. Which means your income is based on signing up others to buy/sell Amsoil. Just like Amway which is probably the biggest MLM. As to the quality of the oil I have done no research as they just don't interest me. It is another reason they have all the wonderful "testimonies" but little on testing the products. In fact it seems their site is more focused on selling points for customers than actual info on the product to me. I am sure when you buy in you think it is the best in the world because they say so.

What do you know about the Fram filters.....seems lots of complaints on the forum?