Track day tire thread

[awwwww_shift]

Hopefully come spring, I can add some more data points in here.
I have a set of 16's with re71's on them, and have a spare set of 16's that I plan to have mounted with either the Nexen SUR4 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Nexen&tireModel=N+FERA+SUR4) or the Maxxis VR-1 (http://www.maxxis.com/catalog/victra-vr-1).

I do quite a bit of track work up here in the sumer, so hopefully I can add some on the sticky skreet tire side of things.

And for those who want to differentiate, most sanctioning bodies consider a street tire something with 180'ish TW or above, and anything less than 140TW would be an r-compound or a slick.
Stuff like the old Toyo R1-R and the original RS3 Hankook with the 140TW were the last of that batch, and nothing aside from the Yokohama AD-08R is really a sub-200TW skreet tire anymore.
Stuff like the Yokohama A-048 and the Toyo R888(and now R888R) are that blurred line of "streetable", but still a track focused tire.

So, 140TW+ = street tire
anything less than 140tw = R-compound... make sense?
true slicks for the most part, aren't going to mash well with most suspension setups on here. They can be made to work, but the motion ratios and camber curves of our cars(and most production cars for that matter) aren't up to the job of making a true slick work in an optimum way. Not saying they don't work, but an r-compound would probably be almost as fast with much less involved for 95% of people that would consider the change.

Just my $.02 from a tire guys perspective and quite a few years of setting up and tracking multiple different chassis....

 

[Siestarider]

And for those who want to differentiate, most sanctioning bodies consider a street tire something with 180'ish TW or above, and anything less than 140TW would be an r-compound or a slick.

So, 140TW+ = street tire
anything less than 140tw = R-compound... make sense?
true slicks for the most part, aren't going to mash well with most suspension setups on here. They can be made to work, but the motion ratios and camber curves of our cars(and most production cars for that matter) aren't up to the job of making a true slick work in an optimum way. Not saying they don't work, but an r-compound would probably be almost as fast with much less involved for 95% of people that would consider the change.

Just my $.02 from a tire guys perspective and quite a few years of setting up and tracking multiple different chassis....

I have no confidence in tread wear ratings by manufacturers. Rival S have 200 wear rating and wear about 3X as fast on track for me as SC-2 with 340 rating. That is why I called Rival S a track/street tire and SC-2 a street/track tire.

That is where experience with specific tires on track comes in, posting about them adds to group knowledge. Your comments on slicks are very pertinent. Most of us assume slicks would be quite a bit faster on track than track/street tires. Good to be reminded that every tire has to have suspension set up and the right pressure to keep it in the "happy place".

From my experience, softer stickier tires will wear longer when they are happy. I know I abused Rival S first time I ran them. Ran too hard, too high hot pressures, used up more tire than necessary for the lap times. Temp testing across tread helped me get them dialed in and working better. But I class them into track/street because even when happy they are wearing pretty fast.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s are also in that 'in-between' category (at 180) of the 80 and below tread wear of full track slicks, to the 200 tread wear rated (even though we KNOW many of them wear MUCH MUCH quicker than what a 200 tread wear should be) autocross/track 'streetable' rubber.

(Although, between their stupidly high, exorbitant co$t, and almost no sizes we could use, I seriously doubt any FiST owners would choose these. )

 

[Pete]

Once the car is put back together and my tunes are finalized I will be testing 235/40/17 BFG R1. Although my data will not be reliable in any way since last time I was on track. With a built engine, bigger hybrid turbo, new suspension, lighter weight, race seat with harness, LSD, Shorter final drive, and bushings. I still want to see how much of an improvement everything makes the car. I'll be doing streets of willow again and then big willow.

 

[awwwww_shift]

I have no confidence in tread wear ratings by manufacturers. Rival S have 200 wear rating and wear about 3X as fast on track for me as SC-2 with 340 rating. That is why I called Rival S a track/street tire and SC-2 a street/track tire.

That is where experience with specific tires on track comes in, posting about them adds to group knowledge. Your comments on slicks are very pertinent. Most of us assume slicks would be quite a bit faster on track than track/street tires. Good to be reminded that every tire has to have suspension set up and the right pressure to keep it in the "happy place".

From my experience, softer stickier tires will wear longer when they are happy. I know I abused Rival S first time I ran them. Ran too hard, too high hot pressures, used up more tire than necessary for the lap times. Temp testing across tread helped me get them dialed in and working better. But I class them into track/street because even when happy they are wearing pretty fast.

The problem with treadwear numbers, is that they're a guide to how long a tire will last, and therefore a gauge as to how sticky a tire is. Manufacturer numbers may be slightly high or slightly low based on the tire, but they're still a REFERENCE of the tire. Yes there is a government standard for the testing, but there are a lot of tricks used to achieve the numbers that the tire maker wants. Case in point is the old Bridgestone RE-01R. It was originally given a 320(or 340) TW rating, and nobody bought them. After a year or 2, Bridgestone dropped the rating to 180, and BOOM, it's the tire to have. No change in compound, no change in tread. They just scribbled out the 320, and wrote in crayon next to it 180.(exaggeration, but you get where i'm going with this.) Same goes for the last iteration of the Hankook RS-3. Originally a 140TW, change nothing with the tire, scribble out the old number, make it a 200TW for certain sanctioning bodies to be happy, and BOOM, it's all over the place again.
Accept it or not, it's an easy way to gauge how a tire will do for those of us who tend to drive more spirited.

And the Pilot SportCup2 is a lightswitch. When it's cold, slidey... When it's warm, holy grip. Getting it to warm can be a balancing act of grip vs slip.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Once the car is put back together and my tunes are finalized I will be testing 235/40/17 BFG R1. Although my data will not be reliable in any way since last time I was on track. With a built engine, bigger hybrid turbo, new suspension, lighter weight, race seat with harness, LSD, Shorter final drive, and bushings. I still want to see how much of an improvement everything makes the car. I'll be doing streets of willow again and then big willow.

Which wheels did you put those meaty gumballs on??

 

[Pete]

Which wheels did you put those meaty gumballs on??

17x8 1552 tarmac's

 

[M-Sport fan]

17x8 1552 tarmac's

<-me

Yeah, I really should have been able to deduce that from the flush spokes of the rear wheel in that pic!

As W-I-D-E as those suckers (the R1s) are, their sidewalls do not seem to be pulled in by an 8" wide wheel.

 

[silverblueBP]

Has anyone tried Nitto NT-01's. I've run these on my Mustang when playing at track days and they have the best grip and wear of any treaded tire I've used. Just curious!

 

[M-Sport fan]

Has anyone tried Nitto NT-01's. I've run these on my Mustang when playing at track days and they have the best grip and wear of any treaded tire I've used. Just curious!

Like most other tire companies, IF they had more EXACT outside diameter choices available, I'm sure many more on here would use them.

As it is they ONLY make our one exact OEM/factory size as the same diameter in this tire.

The only ones I've ever seen use them (and on the factory wheels) is D-SPORT magazine on their Project Fiesta ST, although I am sure that someone on here has also used these on either the factory wheels, or an aftermarket wheel for track use.

IF they offered it in a 215/40-17 I would consider it myself to go on my 17x8 1.2s, despite the fact that Nittos tend to run a much narrower tread width (in the same given size) than most other max/extreme performance, or even track tire offerings.

 

[awwwww_shift]

Has anyone tried Nitto NT-01's. I've run these on my Mustang when playing at track days and they have the best grip and wear of any treaded tire I've used. Just curious!

Nittos are nice. Supposedly the new Toyo R888R is the same compound as the older NT-01(a lot of the complaints about the outgoing R888 was treadlife compared to the previous RA-1).
Depending on how deep off the end I go this season with TT and HPDE, I hope to try out a few sets of the streetable R-Compound options (Toyo R888R, Nitto NT-01, Maxxis, Hankook TD, etc...)

 

[Siestarider]

Nitto NT 01 comes in 205/40/17, looks like wider tread width than most tires that size. Found several reviews on Discount tire site, all very positive for dry traction and tread life tracking. Some folks apparently run them down to slicks and still hold good track performance. Discount will heat cycle them for $15/tire.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Nitto NT 01 comes in 205/40/17, looks like wider tread width than most tires that size. Found several reviews on Discount tire site, all very positive for dry traction and tread life tracking. Some folks apparently run them down to slicks and still hold good track performance. Discount will heat cycle them for $15/tire.

Maybe Nitto addressed this on their latest gen of their performance tires (due to complaints?)?

But I remember the 275/40-17 NT-555R2s I had on my Z28 were a good .75" LESS tread width than almost every other 100 tread wear track day tire in that size available at that time.

 

[mister2dood]

Update: I used the RE-71Rs tires on the Fiesta for the One Lap of America last week, and they made it through the week (3800 miles, twelve 3-lap time trials on road courses, 1 autocross, and a few drag race passes), although there is not much of the shoulders left...we did rotated the fronts to the rear about 2/3 of the way through. I should still be able to flip them and get a couple thousand more miles plus a track day. Overall pleased with the wear rate - it's higher than other tires, but it's adequate, and the grip is really good (as long as temps are > ~45F). We won the Econo class!

What kind of experience to people have with daily driving + occasional autocross and track days on the RE-71R? I'm wondering if I'd be able to get 4000 - 5000 miles of street driving plus a few autocross events and 1 or 2 track days out of a set...