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  1. #1
    Member 107 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    x37-47 / 2554-60 / C39 / ST280 - Small Turbo Comparison Thread

    Summarized Comparisons of Reported Results (as of 1/27/2017):

    Original Cyborg: 235 to 260whp (depending on tune / fuel / mods)

    Pumaspeed X37: 250 to 290whp (depending on tune / fuel / mods)

    Cyborg C39: 260 to 300whp (depending on tune / fuel / mods)

    Pumaspeed X47: 270 to 315whp (depending on tune / fuel / mods)



    For those members that have turbo upgrades already installed here is a thread to let members know which upgrade you selected...You can also post supporting data and results here as well for others to review to help determine which upgrade best suits one's own personal goals...

    Which Turbo Upgrade do you "currently" have installed?

    And here are some specific turbo upgrade discussion threads on our forum listed below:

    Official Pumaspeed X-37 Hybrid Turbo Thread

    Cyborg Upgraded Stock Turbocharger System

    DHM "Quick Spool" GT290r Turbo Kit Release!!!

    PERON P3xx Twin-Scroll Turbo Thread

    Turbo Upgrade - GT2554R or GT2560R? Expectations?

    PumaSpeed's New X-47 Hybrid Turbo Thread



    Original Post (below):

    Where is the real comparisons? I am certain this has been beaten to death on this forum. But what I cannot seem to figure out is why no one is bragging with real data about their results?

    When you are doing a virtual dyno there is no standard for replicating the test. The gear your in, the temp, the location, the altitude, fuel, the person conducting the test, etc. Running your car using the virual dyno is useless if the tests are not consistent between those who are testing to use for any meaningful comparison.

    Lest not forget here in the US we measure torque and HP as torque in FT LBs, and HP normally in WHP as in at the wheel. Across the water, they measure in BHP aka at the flywheel, and Torque in Newton Meters. These are not the same. Normally there is a 15% variance between BHP and WHP in our car. Torque is about the same variance. Yes I know, HP is derived from TQ.

    And when reporting results, for them to be meaningful, both numbers need to be on the graph to show the relationship to each other in regards to RPM, and it would be really nice to see boost against RPM for your setup with your parts. Saying that your vehicle makes 240whp, or saying your vehicle makes 260WHP and 300FT TQ, without the graph means nothing, because if you are making all of your power at 5K, what is going on from 1Kto 4900K? Remember Boost is a measure of restriction. The higher the boost number don't always mean more power. If you have an efficient system, you actually can have less boost with more power.

    In addition, how about sharing everything you have done to the car in addition to the turbo. We almost need a form to fill out on this forum to keep it consistent.

    Obviously a tune is not a tune, and they are not the same between tuners. Where National Speed may go about it one way, DHM would do it differently and so would adam on the exact same turbo based on experience, and again it really matters where you are, altitude, temp, on the day you did it and using a real dyno and the brand of dyno you used. That's why Adam says buying the lifetime tune is important especially if you move.

    With any curve it is about "Power under the curve" not peak. For anyone who does not know what that means, when you are looking at a dyno graph, the higher your lines are over a larger area of RPM, the better. If your curve starts off on a 45 degree and climbs to peak at 5500, you are outside of the normal driving RPM range. When you are running around on the street, you cannot be running to 7 grand every shift, well I guess you could, but not as much fun IMO. You want your torque to come on quick and taper off as HP climbs, but if takes 5000 worth of RPM to get there your max power is only good for 2000 worth of RPM. AKA NOT A LOT.

    If you have real dyno numbers, not virtual dyno numbers, share them here, don't be shy and don't be greedy. This is not about I have more power than you, this is about being scientific about what we are doing. There are lots of people on this forum that would be interested, not to mention everything we post is available on the entire internet, so you would sharing your information to the world.

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    Considering the variables, it'd be pretty unlikely for us to get direct comparisons between the turbos. Best we can do is generalize, no?

    You start with lowest peak and probably widest power band with the X-37/Cyborg, and then narrow the band/raise the peak, as you go up the turbo spectrum...

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    Senior Member 784 Rep Points dyn085's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonHaven View Post
    Considering the variables, it'd be pretty unlikely for us to get direct comparisons between the turbos. Best we can do is generalize, no?

    You start with lowest peak and probably widest power band with the X-37/Cyborg, and then narrow the band/raise the peak, as you go up the turbo spectrum...
    ^This x100. The only way to get 100% 'direct' comparisons would be to install all of these turbos on the exact same engine and run them on the exact same dyno. It's unrealistic to expect and the people that would have the money to complete such a test aren't driving Fiestas. The best we have or will have are the people that have different turbos installed being tested however they see fit with wherever they're at on whatever day/time they choose to test them.

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    Member 107 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonHaven View Post
    Considering the variables, it'd be pretty unlikely for us to get direct comparisons between the turbos. Best we can do is generalize, no?

    You start with lowest peak and probably widest power band with the X-37/Cyborg, and then narrow the band/raise the peak, as you go up the turbo spectrum...
    Its certainly not happening with a virtual dyno.

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    Member 60 Rep Points johnnyaf87's Avatar
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    Cobb stage 3 / x-37 / meth / adamtuned
    Dynojet 276whp pump gas + meth
    13.3 @ 109 street tires at cecil dragway

    Sent from my SM-G530P using Tapatalk

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    Why are facts so scary? Gives people a basis to make a informed decision. I'm interested in a bigger turbo set up and am curious to see what might be the best.

    The best for me would be mean better pulls for highway use. Maybe someone can just tell me what turbo is suited for this. Or that this platform can't do it and stick with...

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    ............. All great options!

  8. #8
    Member 107 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
    I get what your trying to find information on, I just bought my FiST couple days ago and am trying to figure out which turbo to go with as well, something that spools quickly (around 3k) and something that can make up to 300 whp. For me Auto X and Full Track days are my plans for it. It seems like there isn't that many people out there who have actually upgraded turbos that seem to be posting about performance on track, I have been reading threads upon threads about what people want to do, but not a lot that I've seen so far is about actually doing it and performance aspects of different turbo options and how well its actually performing in those situations.

    When I bought my FR-S back in 2012 we had lots of similar threads like this but the car was just too new and nobody had really made anything for it. Honestly I think if you had approached the thread a little differently (language wise) you wouldn't be getting as many of the responses that you have. Hopefully I can continue reading through the forum and find some thread that is similar to what your asking because I want the same information and I don't think its going to get posted here (unfortunately). Hope I'm wrong though.
    I'm ok with those responses its the same people over and over and over and over again. its like their playing doom, and sitting in a corner and stalking, lurking around waiting for someone to post something so they can jump in and run their trap. You've got mr negative, who told me the other day he was blocking my post, so I should have to hear from him anymore, and dyn085(data logger boy), who has all the answers for everyone but none that anyone want to hear, because he has all the answers. If you read my post, it is written the way it is written just for them. You would think they would get the hint and stop doing it. The forum is not for people like them. It is for people who want to share information and enjoy the car. People like dyn085, sit around data log, and then all the sudden they are experts on everything and for some reason the fact that they are screwing around with their own car, makes them an expert.

    So moving on. I just decided to buy the X-37 and purchased it today from Tune +. Adam convinced me that it was the way to go, and HE OF ALL PEOPLE WOULD KNOW. The guy has been tuning stuff for years and how many has he tuned? He probably doesn't even know. Regardless, As long as the negative Nancy's continue to have their panties in a wad over whatever their in a wad over, I will continue to be like am being. Nobody is interested in their BS, and they make it bad for everyone else on this forum.

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    Senior Member 784 Rep Points dyn085's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antarctica24 View Post
    I'm ok with those responses its the same people over and over and over and over again. its like their playing doom, and sitting in a corner and stalking, lurking around waiting for someone to post something so they can jump in and run their trap. You've got mr negative, who told me the other day he was blocking my post, so I should have to hear from him anymore, and dyn085(data logger boy), who has all the answers for everyone but none that anyone want to hear, because he has all the answers. If you read my post, it is written the way it is written just for them. You would think they would get the hint and stop doing it. The forum is not for people like them. It is for people who want to share information and enjoy the car. People like dyn085, sit around data log, and then all the sudden they are experts on everything and for some reason the fact that they are screwing around with their own car, makes them an expert.

    So moving on. I just decided to buy the X-37 and purchased it today from Tune +. Adam convinced me that it was the way to go, and HE OF ALL PEOPLE WOULD KNOW. The guy has been tuning stuff for years and how many has he tuned? He probably doesn't even know. Regardless, As long as the negative Nancy's continue to have their panties in a wad over whatever their in a wad over, I will continue to be like am being. Nobody is interested in their BS, and they make it bad for everyone else on this forum.
    I'm not the expert by any means, but at least I am well-aware that this is not a MAF-tuned platform and have posted lots of information and done what I can to help members collect, distribute, and evaluate as legitimate of information as possible. We've gone from a community consistently perpetuating rumors of RMM false-knock to a community with the means to collect and share tests in as-scientific of a manner as possible without spending paychecks on it. I haven't done it all but I have definitely done my part and all you've done is tried to assert that you know everything simply because you've driven more miles in stock form than everyone else.

    Also, this is funny-
    Quote Originally Posted by antarctica24 View Post
    If you are selling your goods to the public and post dyno information about your product, please don't say, here is my dynograph showing the gains created by my product, but these are not realistic because I tune my car differently to get the extreme results.
    Quote Originally Posted by antarctica24 View Post
    Adam convinced me that it was the way to go, and HE OF ALL PEOPLE WOULD KNOW.
    You wouldn't know why, but some do. More-so when it's realized that you called me 'data-logger boy' (A title that I'm perfectly ok with, btw) and then chose the only tuner in the entire ST community (FiST and FoST) that won't allow his customers to share logs.

    I'll go back to my tuning and datalogging and you can go back to demanding everyone spend their money on dyno's. After all, there's no way to screw up a dyno pull and they're all perfectly comparable with each other...lol.

  10. #10
    Member 107 Rep Points antarctica24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
    I'm not the expert by any means, but at least I am well-aware that this is not a MAF-tuned platform and have posted lots of information and done what I can to help members collect, distribute, and evaluate as legitimate of information as possible. We've gone from a community consistently perpetuating rumors of RMM false-knock to a community with the means to collect and share tests in as-scientific of a manner as possible without spending paychecks on it. I haven't done it all but I have definitely done my part and all you've done is tried to assert that you know everything simply because you've driven more miles in stock form than everyone else.

    Also, this is funny-




    You wouldn't know why, but some do. More-so when it's realized that you called me 'data-logger boy' (A title that I'm perfectly ok with, btw) and then chose the only tuner in the entire ST community (FiST and FoST) that won't allow his customers to share logs.

    I'll go back to my tuning and datalogging and you can go back to demanding everyone spend their money on dyno's. After all, there's no way to screw up a dyno pull and they're all perfectly comparable with each other...lol.
    I don't know, if I had developed a process for tuning vehicles, if I had done the work, why would I share it with someone like yourself? If memory recall Adam runs a business. He earned the right to say his stuff is proprietary. If you want the information start your own tuning business. What part have you done other than act like a know it all. You are not qualified to help anyone and it's not your job. I am not pretending to know anything about this car. I know odb2 and I know map tuning is very old technology and extremely unreliable. I absolutely know very little about turbo based vehicles. I'm just now starting to understand the relationship between the bov and the wastegate. Everything about this car and how it's makinging power is completely different than what have done before. I don't want to be an expert on this vehicle. I see no need to go through that process again. But when I did tune my car I didn't guess. I took classes from industry experts so that I could understand what I was doing. Then elinsted the help of tuners around the globe to continue to educate me so I could be the best tuner on my vehicle. I didn't go around trying to help anyone. The only thing I will be an expert in on this vehicle will be how to ake it sound good. I simply said driven what I have driven on this vehicle I have more experience in this car than anyone else on this forum. That would be an undisputed fact. It does not make me an expert on the vehicle, it does make me an expert in how the vehicle handles, responds, and drives whith the current parts on the car and in stock form. We could probably add to that had more different tires on this vehicle. As for the MAF you have got to get a life. I could be wrong it certainly won't be the first time and I'm certain it won't be the last. But I'm not ever going to take the word of someone like yourself. Your not qualified to make that conclusion. Getting logs and understanding are two completely different things. It was your beloved Cobb that posted a video showing how the engine was banging into the firewall. I never said that. I said I bought a rmm because the likes of you saying they were necessary. It made the car worse regarding drivability. Then you and a couple others said I was crazy that there was no way the rmm could have made my car worse. Like I'm incapable of feeling when my car is shaking or not. You also said bolting on parts made no difference in power without a tune, wrong again. While I screwed up by not making a base run, my car is not 23 ft lbs better than every other fiesta built. Every reputable tuner I have ever talked to says exhaust on blown vehicle adds power. Every single one, but you. So do yourself a favor, block my posts from your view and quit wasting your time. Your not interested in anything I have to say and the feelings are completely mutual.

    Again, thank you for your comments as always their so useful. NOT.


 
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