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X axis and Y axis on base wgdc table

Sourskittle

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#1
Ok... I give up... This wgdc table has been kicking my butt since I started... For starters... There is no "compressor output pressure" to log for Y-axis. Secondly and mostly... The X axis is.... WHAT !!! Wth is the X-axis !!? I can't seem to find anything that mirrors the X axis to log so I know the area on the wgdc to adjust.

To basically give up and start over, i've tried using cobbs wgdc setup in the map switching area, but its yielded more tuning than I want to do ( as I've mostly been doing timing and fuel tuning ).

So does anyone have a simple answer? Where can I reference X and Y in the datalogs to add/subtract wgdc at a certain rpm?

Thanx in advance :)
 


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#2
If you're going to "tune" your own car, then you MUST learn and understand the variables. This is why "Tuners" charge money for their work. It takes effort to learn the details and experimetation to see how the various tables work.

The Cobb WGDC base tables are the only tables that reference RPM on an axis.

Read the Cobb Tuning documents, especially the Fiesta ST supplement. You can also expand the ATR Table List window and view a short explanation of the selected table and the effects.

The main variables you need to focus on are the WGDC Base, the WGDC Compensations, and the WGDC Dynamics/PID P-Term Base.

All of the table variables are selectable for logging to assist you, just look at the lists in ATR-Edit-Configure Options to see what's available. Then write down what you want and go to the AP and select them in the logging list.

If you need to decrease WGDC at some point (reference Exh Flow Est, or COP, or Load, or PID X value, etc.) the tables are there. One simple way is to decrease the WGDC/boost is to reduce the OEM WGDC Base table values and use one of the other Compensations and/or Dynamics tables to bring it up where you want more.
 


razorlab

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#3
What Forzda said. Cobb even references both of your questions in their guide.
 


OP
Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #4
I've read that stuff like 15 times over the last 4-5 months.
I don't think I'm asking to much to just tell me wtf the X and Y is in the log list. As far as I can tell.... It doesn't exist.

What can I log to show me X ?
What can I log to show me Y ?

The other PID stuff I'm not looking at stuff right now.

And the tunes people pay, they are not tuning aftermarket wastegate actuators or modified turbos with modified flow characteristics. Unless were talking about Panda or Cobb themselves with the ATP turbo car. Other wise, its pretty much a copy/paste. Its not as simple as just copying the cobb stg3 table and hitting +/-.
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #5
I've gone from where I started with the cobb wgdc table at 23.5psi and just added 4 more table with more and more wgdc for yet switchable map. As much as I want the cobb wgdc table to work for me, its sorta disappointed me every time I try to use it. I'm sure its just something I'm doing, lol.
 


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#6
Really dude?

Y axis = The Compressor Outlet Pressure Relative psi is in the log list as "WGDC Y-COP Relative"
X axis = The WGDC PID X-Final Relative psi is in the log list as "WGDC X-Final Relative"

Now, does that help you to understand HOW they interact and adjust them to get the desired results?

EVERYTHING you need to know to get started LEARNING Ford ecoboost (the FiestaST) ECU controls and ATR is IN the Cobb documents. READ and PAY ATTENTION! Those of us outside of Cobb Tuning (well, me for sure) learn this shit by reading (thoroughly) and doing.
 


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#7
The Cobb WGDC tables work perfectly. I have a Map set to ~10psi for "normal" driving. Among other things I've changed is the WGDC table for that selected map.

Here it is:
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #8
No way I missed that.... I was reading the focus wgdc ( which of course is different ). But last night, i read it AGAIN...

A straight boost pressure would be easy. The problem I'm actually having is getting the boost to drop a little more on the big end. Between the stock turbo wastegate actuator and the stock turbo its self ( and the wgdc table ), boost falling off up top is just natural. My car is hitting the peak boost I want at around 26.5-27.3psi ( depending on outside temps ), but its holding 24-25psi to redline. I'm fine with that on E30, but its prob not going to fly on 93oct.
 


razorlab

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#9
Then you want to make sure your targets and error correction controls are set correctly
 


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#10
Here is a log of one of my tuning experiments. I WANT to keep the boost up all the way to redline because that is where the power is. Notice I get some throttle closure when the boost exceeds the TIP Ceiling at around 3000-3800 rpms and a bit of oscillation while it is trying to correct. To bring the WGDC down around that range you look at the reference points like the Exh Mass Flow and COP Relative. You can reduce the WGDC Base a bit around the 26psi COP Relative (at X-Final 0.00 across through whatever X-Final value observed in log), and/or increase the P-Term base values around 17-20 lb/min Exh Flow. Get it?

There are MANY adjustable parameters in ATR to achieve your desired results. The "trick" is adjusting them in small amounts to observe the results. If you go too far with one, it can show a problem in another area.

You do have the WGDC Compensation Mode(s) set properly, right?
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #11
I'll have to show you some of my log later today. Where you get + numbers on your "Y", I only get (-) numbers when I log that ( which is why I thought it wasn't the correct thing to log ).

The I D P PIDs are pretty much set to what cobb stg3 runs...
 


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#12
I'll have to show you some of my log later today. Where you get + numbers on your "Y", I only get (-) numbers when I log that ( which is why I thought it wasn't the correct thing to log ).

The I D P PIDs are pretty much set to what cobb stg3 runs...
Ok, cool. We'll have a look when you can post up some logs. If you're running the OTS values with a bigger turbo, then most of the values are likely off a bit...

Hmmm, the OEM turbo also has internal wastegate. If the "cyborg" mods didn't open/port the "exit" hole enough, you may have "boost creep" or difficult-to-control-accurately boost associated with the exit hole too small. What DP are you running? It could also contribute to boost control issues. Not really likely, but a definite possibility.
 


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Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #13


Yep... I'm a moron, lol. Maybe entering that stuff at 5:25am after staying up watching Monday night football was a bad idea :)
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #15


Nothing but negative numbers on the X-final... 4000rpm to 6200rpm in 4th gear.
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #16
And to touch on the wastegate whole thing. Its not boost creep, I can run 10.5psi all day without creep. The wastegate hole is ported a good bit and polished. Most the ones I've ported for customers actually have a 34mm flapper disk vs the stock 33mm. Mine doesn't because i haven't taken he time to do it, but either way boost creep is no issue :)

The downpipe is a 3" miltek catless.
 


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Sourskittle

Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #17
On the flipside, the cobb wgdc table showed me some promise... About 26.5psi dropping to 21psi. Dropping a little more than I want but at least its getting there ( and its nice to try 4 tables at a time/flash ).

Really weird, my first attempt at using cobb's table's was right before the last time I went to the real dyno. And it kept leaving me just running wastegate min so I left it alone.
The 2nd time was a couple weeks ago. Suddenly, it started working after starting over with a 91oct based stg3 tune from complete scratch. I got so close to where i wanted to be with the normal wgdc table that I tried the cobb style, but gave up really quickly.

I think I'm going to see how well I can control it with the cobb for a couple days.
 


razorlab

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#18
The updated COBB boost control strategy (and associated compensation strategy) is so much easier and more logical to tune than the OEM.

Just make sure to select the compensation strategy that works best for you.
 


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Sourskittle

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Thread Starter #19
I'm using "4". I'm gonna try to get about 27.5psi to 22psi.
 


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#20
The negative X-Final says your TIP max (target) is higher than the actual TIP. You have the WGDC set for your peak boost and when it drops below the TIP desired, the X-Final runs negative to add WGDC to meet the TIP desired.

If the Cobb WGDC table left you with TIP minimum then you had the map selections incorrectly configured.
 




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