• Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features

    Welcome to the #1 Fiesta ST Forum and Fiesta ST community dedicated to Fiesta ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Fiesta ST Forum today!


Off-road/Trail suspension?

Messages
22
Likes
9
Location
Altamonte Springs
#1
Looking at quite a few options right now, wanting some input as to who would be a better pick? D2Racing, AST, and obviously Reiger. Basically, how do D2,AST stack up against the legendary Reiger's?

Priorities:
Robust/Strong
Adjustable Comp/RB
Reliability

Stock ST shocks looooove to thrash around on anything other than asphalt- Need a set-up where I can drive with ST-like capability on the highway (to my destination) and adjust to the new terrain.
 


RubenZZZ

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,436
Likes
915
Location
El Monte
#2
I would look into what rally guys run. They go from tarmac to gravel to dirt.

I bet it's not cheap.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk
 


OP
K
Messages
22
Likes
9
Location
Altamonte Springs
Thread Starter #3
Rally guys, like Team O'niell, generally run Reiger. My question is just to see how some other companies might stack up- price/performance wise.
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,000
Likes
6,700
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#4
For actual gravel stage rally use, there is also the R1 gravel rally spec, M-Sport Bilstein 'Motorsport level' (MUCH larger piston/piston shafts) coil over setup.

This setup is NOT 'cheap' @ ~$2500.00, but would probably be better at any off road/gravel stage type use than ANY of the (street) aftermarket lowering 'coils' (as so many on here like to call them) which you likely could not raise high enough for true rough gravel stage use.

It is certainly much more reasonable than either the gravel or tarmac Reigers which START at ~$9000.00/set, and go up from there! [crazyeye]
(But of course, those are all remote reservoir, and either 3 way, or 4 way adjustable for individual, various rebound/compression settings, of both high and low speed frequencies, whereas the Bilsteins are not. [:(])
 


Last edited:
OP
K
Messages
22
Likes
9
Location
Altamonte Springs
Thread Starter #5
Thanks for the info! I’ll check them out. That 2500 sounds a lot more wallet-savvy than the Reigers :)
 


BRGT350

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,075
Likes
762
Location
Grand Haven
#6
TON uses HD Bilstein dampers on the school Fiestas, which see 100% gravel use. Almost all of the stage rally cars swap out dampers, springs, sway bar, and sometimes brakes when they go from a gravel to tarmac stage. There are some stages that a mix of both, so they compromise as needed. Going from an on-highway to gravel setup using all the same parts is a huge compromise in design and performance. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,000
Likes
6,700
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#7
TON uses HD Bilstein dampers on the school Fiestas, which see 100% gravel use. Almost all of the stage rally cars swap out dampers, springs, sway bar, and sometimes brakes when they go from a gravel to tarmac stage. There are some stages that a mix of both, so they compromise as needed. Going from an on-highway to gravel setup using all the same parts is a huge compromise in design and performance. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
ABSOLUTELY, but IF I were ever wealthy, and fortunate enough to be able to afford the Reigers, I would go for their tarmac setup, since I would only need it to be able to handle rough gravel stages for WORKING purposes, and depending on the spring used, I could most likely raise the car high enough to not bottom out, or send the top mounts through the hood on compressions/'yumps'/landings at much lower than 'max attack', worker stage road speeds.

Some of the WRC tarmac rounds are on anything but glass smooth paved roads (like the Germany round starting today), so I figure the tarmac setups CAN handle really lousy pavement, and smoother than Acropolis gravel stage roads.

Of course, IF Kazmon IS actually asking about pure high speed, actual competition gravel stage use, the above is a definite NO GO!
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,000
Likes
6,700
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#8
TON uses HD Bilstein dampers on the school Fiestas, which see 100% gravel use. Almost all of the stage rally cars swap out dampers, springs, sway bar, and sometimes brakes when they go from a gravel to tarmac stage. There are some stages that a mix of both, so they compromise as needed. Going from an on-highway to gravel setup using all the same parts is a huge compromise in design and performance. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Are the Bilstein HDs valved even more 'pedestrian' than the B6es, or are they basically the very same thing (I had the HDs on my A2 GTI 16V, and yes they were a very reliable damper!)?

Also, being very unfamiliar with all of the inter-mountain and Pac West US stage rallies, I did notice some of them DO have LONG, multiple tarmac stages in the route.
My guess is that ONLY the TOP, best funded, crews actually change out their full setups between the gravel and tarmac stages, and then only if there are services right before and after these stages.

The only time I've seen an actual tarmac stage in the U.S. was when the old Maine Forest Rally used to have the 'downtown' stage through Rumford, going right through the 7 Islands/Cascade paper mill in town, which went away 18 or more years ago.

For that, even the top crews of that time did not change out the suspension, and only some even bothered to change to tarmac wheels/tires (and most of those who did, just used max performance, or autocross level donuts, NOT actual Michelin tarmac rally tires).
Since it was the final stage as well, most crews just figured that their gravel rubber was worn down enough to act sort of like narrow slicks. LOL

I DO realize that you were speaking to TOP LEVEL, WRC/Euro Championship competitions, where YES, they ALL change out everything for mixed surface rallies.
But they also get the cooperation of the organizers in making sure the stages are split evenly, and that there ARE sufficient services between the two changing surfaces to switch everything over. [wink]
 


Jerickson88

Active member
Messages
720
Likes
204
Location
Rock Creek
#11
Maybe, but just in case he IS serious, or if there are any others out there wanting the info, I don't mind supplying it, nor, I'm sure, does Brian (BRGT350). ;)

There’s been quiet a few I’ve tried to view that have already been deleted. I was just wondering lol. Thanks for putting out factual info though!
 


OP
K
Messages
22
Likes
9
Location
Altamonte Springs
Thread Starter #12
No trolling, I really appreciate all of the information that's been given. My ultimate goal is to compete in the WRC after the Marine Corps, however my current ST is my daily- I want to get it the closest I can to something as robust as an r5 or fiesta wrc, suspension wise. Engine will not be restricted as per FIA regs (e.g. Pumaspeed rebuild/big turbo/shit like that). Fun project.
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,000
Likes
6,700
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#13
You DO understand the insane amount of funds necessary (even with substantial sponsorship) to compete at that level, even in a lower level, totally privateer, R2, let alone an EXORBITANT privateer R5 capacity, correct?

Also, at this point ONLY the actual, registered with the FIA, FACTORY WRC teams are allowed to compete in the WRC class with current WRC spec equipment (besides the cars running upwards of $1.5 MILLION+ each IF you could buy one, BEFORE spare parts/support/'consumables'!), so even if you had MULTI-million$$ at your disposal, unless you had the proven talent, and could get hired by the works teams, you could not compete in the current WRC class (but YES, if you could field an entry you COULD compete in R5 as a privateer). ;)
 


Jerickson88

Active member
Messages
720
Likes
204
Location
Rock Creek
#14
You DO understand the insane amount of funds necessary (even with substantial sponsorship) to compete at that level, even in a lower level, totally privateer, R2, let alone an EXORBITANT privateer R5 capacity, correct?

Also, at this point ONLY the actual, registered with the FIA, FACTORY WRC teams are allowed to compete in the WRC class with current WRC spec equipment (besides the cars running upwards of $1.5 MILLION+ each IF you could buy one, BEFORE spare parts/support/'consumables'!), so even if you had MULTI-million$$ at your disposal, unless you had the proven talent, and could get hired by the works teams, you could not compete in the current WRC class (but YES, if you could field an entry you COULD compete in R5 as a privateer). ;)
You know with enough $$$$$ you can buy your way in.


OP, set the goals high and I hope you reach them that’s for sure!
 


OP
K
Messages
22
Likes
9
Location
Altamonte Springs
Thread Starter #15
I understand the financials, I do not expect to achieve it all any time soon, or alone. It’s just a dream of mine. In the meantime, I’m putting together my project car to function as similarly to wrc as I can afford. I’m just looking for information about parts and how they perform.
 


Jerickson88

Active member
Messages
720
Likes
204
Location
Rock Creek
#16
I understand the financials, I do not expect to achieve it all any time soon, or alone. It’s just a dream of mine. In the meantime, I’m putting together my project car to function as similarly to wrc as I can afford. I’m just looking for information about parts and how they perform.

Sounds good. I can respect that. A lot of guys just want one to look like a rally car, and expect it to perform like one!
 


RubenZZZ

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,436
Likes
915
Location
El Monte
#17
Truth be told, I'd like to turn my FiST into a tarmac terror, rally widebody and all.

I'd love to have a true rallycar on the streets.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk
 


BRGT350

1000 Post Club
Messages
1,075
Likes
762
Location
Grand Haven
#19
Are the Bilstein HDs valved even more 'pedestrian' than the B6es, or are they basically the very same thing (I had the HDs on my A2 GTI 16V, and yes they were a very reliable damper!)?

Also, being very unfamiliar with all of the inter-mountain and Pac West US stage rallies, I did notice some of them DO have LONG, multiple tarmac stages in the route.
My guess is that ONLY the TOP, best funded, crews actually change out their full setups between the gravel and tarmac stages, and then only if there are services right before and after these stages.

The only time I've seen an actual tarmac stage in the U.S. was when the old Maine Forest Rally used to have the 'downtown' stage through Rumford, going right through the 7 Islands/Cascade paper mill in town, which went away 18 or more years ago.

For that, even the top crews of that time did not change out the suspension, and only some even bothered to change to tarmac wheels/tires (and most of those who did, just used max performance, or autocross level donuts, NOT actual Michelin tarmac rally tires).
Since it was the final stage as well, most crews just figured that their gravel rubber was worn down enough to act sort of like narrow slicks. LOL

I DO realize that you were speaking to TOP LEVEL, WRC/Euro Championship competitions, where YES, they ALL change out everything for mixed surface rallies.
But they also get the cooperation of the organizers in making sure the stages are split evenly, and that there ARE sufficient services between the two changing surfaces to switch everything over. [wink]
Not sure, I asked when I was at the school and told they use HD Bilsteins. At the time, which was 5 years ago last week, there weren't a lot of suspension options for the Fiesta. Considering the school Fiestas (the old Fiesta Movement ones, not the ST's) don't go much faster than 60mph on gravel and are meant for learning how to control a car, durability is more of a concern than traction. They want those cars to slide around so you learn car control without going fast. I don't know what the ST's use.

I can report that the Fiesta ST in stock form does pretty good on gravel and dirt. No, it wasn't with my car. No, the video footage won't be made public. The car is far more capable on gravel that most people have the ability to drive it. Even with the stock summer tires.

To compete in the WRC without massive financial backing (Block) or competing in cars/karts since being a kid is almost impossible. Even getting to a top tier Rally America team is hard. The best would be to compete in SCCA rallycross and get into stage rally from there. Even then, expect to spend a lot of money and time. To compete on the national level with a fairly stock Fiesta takes about $100k-200k to build the car (far less if you buy one used) and about $100k per year to compete. That covers transportation, rentals/recce car, equipment, spares, tires, fuel and other consumables, and hotels for the crew. You can rent prepped rally cars from TON and not have to spend the same money, but when you muck one up, you buy a replacement car. However, there are plenty of people doing the regional rallies on a pretty small budget and having fun. A friend of mine was selling his complete rally car with spares for around $30k and it was a very nice and competitive car. Cut that price in half for people running fairly stock cars with just the safety equipment and tires installed. You won't be competing for a podium against the top tier cars, but it is better than not racing at all!
 


M-Sport fan

9000 Post Club
Messages
14,000
Likes
6,700
Location
Princeton, N.J.
#20
To compete in the WRC without massive financial backing (Block) or competing in cars/karts since being a kid is almost impossible. Even getting to a top tier Rally America team is hard. The best would be to compete in SCCA rallycross and get into stage rally from there. Even then, expect to spend a lot of money and time. To compete on the national level with a fairly stock Fiesta takes about $100k-200k to build the car (far less if you buy one used) and about $100k per year to compete. That covers transportation, rentals/recce car, equipment, spares, tires, fuel and other consumables, and hotels for the crew. You can rent prepped rally cars from TON and not have to spend the same money, but when you muck one up, you buy a replacement car. However, there are plenty of people doing the regional rallies on a pretty small budget and having fun. A friend of mine was selling his complete rally car with spares for around $30k and it was a very nice and competitive car. Cut that price in half for people running fairly stock cars with just the safety equipment and tires installed. You won't be competing for a podium against the top tier cars, but it is better than not racing at all!
^^^THIS! [thumb]

I thought it was cool that Barry McKenna had a semi-prepped FoRS for a recce car!
(I believe that he had at least the same Reiger suspension under it as TON had on his limited four wheel drive class FoRS which actually competed in the event at NEFR, as well as those M-Sport/OZed silver 'disc' R2 spec 5 lug wheels with Pirelli gravels mounted on them, and all sorts of under body kevlar protection, and skid plate! [crazyeye]
(His foundation biz in the NYC area MUST BE doing quite well! LOL ;) )

I can attest to the durability, and competence of the factory suspension on the FiST, as the few times I was able to 'open it up' a little while driving down the stage roads at NEFR when getting to/from our working points, I was DULY IMPRESSED!! [:)] [;)] [driving]
(But I was not brave enough to chance it on the factory wheels/all season tires, and had the 'semi gravel spec' Method MR501 VTs on and Altimax Arctic 12 winters in a big side walled 195/60-15 size on them, pumped up to mid 40s PSI pressures.)
 




Top