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Larger turbo vs stock turbo at higher boost?

danbfree

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#23
I wonder if you'll notice the increase from 190HP stock, to 230HP..

I was hoping for more like ~250HP, and a quick spool-up, without going through the cost of another turbo.
For that, I'll probably need to run the system at 28PSI.
When stock horsepower is mentioned people are referring to HP at the flywheel.
When tuned horsepower is talked about they are talking about at the Wheels.
Stock horsepower at the wheels is about 15% less than what you see advertised.
Stock horsepower at the wheels is closer to 170 HP +/- 5 hp.
so put simply you will notice the difference between stock and tuned.
Not sure anyone has achieved 250 WHP with a stock turbo.
I am running 28 psi on 93 oct and I am not close to 250 whp and I don't think e30 would get me close either.
Holy crap, 28 psi on stock turbo without ethanol? WITH ethanol/e30 I'm tuned for 26.5 psi, on 93 you are just creating tons of heat past 25 psi... Did Stratified custom tune you that high? I feel they run a bit too high of boost for comfort... But yes, 220-230 whp is what you see with e30 tunes, if OP is serious about 250 whp then it's definitely a hybrid turbo to get there.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #24
Thanks for the comments.

I'm interested to see if this spring will actually make a difference.
I wonder if it's not possible to adjust the waste gate via software?


With 250HP, I meant on the crank; round about 215-220WBHP.
When people mentioned a tune gets them 225HP, I wrongly assumed at the crank.


I'm interested about running bone stock at higher PSI (with spring), and if the engine will start retarding the timing due to the overboost?
Because then it would negate the effect.
Also if cold weather or hot weather will affect the readings?
I'm living in a hot weather environment, close to sea level, and wonder how it would affect performance compared to colder weather, as well as higher elevations?
 


Jerickson88

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#26
Thanks for the comments.

I'm interested to see if this spring will actually make a difference.
I wonder if it's not possible to adjust the waste gate
With 250HP, I meant on the crank; round about 215-220WBHP.
When people mentioned a tune gets them 225HP, I wrongly assumed at the crank.


I'm interested about running bone stock at higher PSI (with spring), and if the engine will start retarding the timing due to the overboost?
Because then it would negate the effect.
Also if cold weather or hot weather will affect the readings?
I'm living in a hot weather environment, close to sea level, and wonder how it would affect performance compared to colder weather, as well as higher elevations?

What diverter valve are you running now?
 


danbfree

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#27
Thanks for the comments.

I'm interested to see if this spring will actually make a difference.
I wonder if it's not possible to adjust the waste gate via software?


With 250HP, I meant on the crank; round about 215-220WBHP.
When people mentioned a tune gets them 225HP, I wrongly assumed at the crank.


I'm interested about running bone stock at higher PSI (with spring), and if the engine will start retarding the timing due to the overboost?
Because then it would negate the effect.
Also if cold weather or hot weather will affect the readings?
I'm living in a hot weather environment, close to sea level, and wonder how it would affect performance compared to colder weather, as well as higher elevations?
I took a look after some comments here, and like Quisp mentioned earlier, Tune+ already sells a WG upgrade and they tune for it, but any tuner worth their grain will know how to tune for it too... so yes, you would need to buy the Turbo Smart+ and a GFB DV+ and then disable the stock WG built on to the turbo through disconnecting it and having the sensor disabled as part of the tune... I just wish I knew the difference, is it 19 psi vs. 16 at 6000 or? And of course actual dyno numbers would be nice too... The other good thing is that if you invested in this setup and want to go to a turbo upgrade later, you have your WG and DV upgrades in place already too... as far as overboost concerns, that is exactly what a tune for the new WG would do, release properly and prevent overspin, it's definitely all in the tune no matter which WG you have and tuners know how to address this... sure, some hacked type attempts at WG modding can result in issues from as minor as the ECU adapting and negating any power benefis over time to damage from overspin so a proper tune is certainly needed.
 


danbfree

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#29
22psi at 5k,20 psi at 6k.
Damn, that's fairly significant, about 4-5 psi more which can really help the top end pull nicely... sounds like a good first step before going turbo upgrade when it can be used for that too if you decide on more, i'm kind of surprised that this isn't a more commonly discussed option, I think people just assume you can't help the stock turbo or just assume they want more power than that anyway, but sounds really interesting to me!
 


A7xogg

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#30
Damn, that's fairly significant, about 4-5 psi more which can really help the top end pull nicely... sounds like a good first step before going turbo upgrade when it can be used for that too if you decide on more, i'm kind of surprised that this isn't a more commonly discussed option, I think people just assume you can't help the stock turbo or just assume they want more power than that anyway, but sounds really interesting to me!
yeah, i only peak at 24 psi or so but i hold it unlike all the stock wastegate guys. also my wgdc doesnt increase as rpm goes up, it stays the same through the whole rpm range, where my stock wgdc would start increasing as soon as i hit boost
 


Jerickson88

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#31
I cannot explain how the stock DV is junk. I donā€™t have any experience with the other electronic valves but I can attest for sure there is a performance difference getting away from the stock one. So many people discount the potential gain and think that itā€™s not a key player but the stock ones suck. They leak and are in general poor performers even stock. They do their jobs and thatā€™s it. Open or closed. The vacuum one opens according to pressure, not open or closed based off of throttle position, so thereā€™s a variance as to how slow or fast and how little or much it opens, versus the stock one which is one or the other. Itā€™s just different. I canā€™t prove Dyna results but Iā€™ve taken the time to compare the two.
 


A7xogg

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#32
I cannot explain how the stock DV is junk. I donā€™t have any experience with the other electronic valves but I can attest for sure there is a performance difference getting away from the stock one. So many people discount the potential gain and think that itā€™s not a key player but the stock ones suck. They leak and are in general poor performers even stock. They do their jobs and thatā€™s it. Open or closed. The vacuum one opens according to pressure, not open or closed based off of throttle position, so thereā€™s a variance as to how slow or fast and how little or much it opens, versus the stock one which is one or the other. Itā€™s just different. I canā€™t prove Dyna results but Iā€™ve taken the time to compare the two.
the ford ecu will compensate for a boost leak to make engine torque requested( which is why its hard to see dyno gains from mods). When swapped to my gfb my wgdc was 10% lower, so the turbo is spinning slower to make same boost. BUt i feel tha ta dv or bov should not be mounted to a turbo which is why alot of people have issues with the turbosmart bov/bpv leaking after some miles.And were not talking just about fiestas either.
 


Jerickson88

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#33
the ford ecu will compensate for a boost leak to make engine torque requested( which is why its hard to see dyno gains from mods). When swapped to my gfb my wgdc was 10% lower, so the turbo is spinning slower to make same boost. BUt i feel tha ta dv or bov should not be mounted to a turbo which is why alot of people have issues with the turbosmart bov/bpv leaking after some miles.And were not talking just about fiestas either.
If I go to a hybrid turbo later, Iā€™d do a charge pipe setup and block off at the turbo. It feels like the car hits torque a hair quicker, and if you let out and get back in I donā€™t feel like thereā€™s as much loss in pressure likenindonwith the stock one. The stock one isnā€™t as reactive to throttle input, or there no discernment in the open/close, whereas with vacuum thereā€™s more variation, and the Plumb back doesnā€™t have to be set or adjusted like the 50/50.
 


M-Sport fan

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#35
Damn, that's fairly significant, about 4-5 psi more which can really help the top end pull nicely... sounds like a good first step before going turbo upgrade when it can be used for that too if you decide on more, i'm kind of surprised that this isn't a more commonly discussed option, I think people just assume you can't help the stock turbo or just assume they want more power than that anyway, but sounds really interesting to me!
Many don't want to completely remove and re-install the whole factory turbo unit just to pick up so little, and only want to bother with this much (of a pain) labor effort for a full hybrid/BT replacement upgrade.

BTW; depending on the 'severity' of the turbo setup chosen, wouldn't one want more than merely a 7 PSI waste gate on an aftermarket snail? [dunno]
 


danbfree

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#36
Many don't want to completely remove and re-install the whole factory turbo unit just to pick up so little, and only want to bother with this much (of a pain) labor effort for a full hybrid/BT replacement upgrade.

BTW; depending on the 'severity' of the turbo setup chosen, wouldn't one want more than merely a 7 PSI waste gate on an aftermarket snail? [dunno]
Very, very true, normally you go with an 11 psi spring with a turbo upgrade...
 


danbfree

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#37
yeah, i only peak at 24 psi or so but i hold it unlike all the stock wastegate guys. also my wgdc doesnt increase as rpm goes up, it stays the same through the whole rpm range, where my stock wgdc would start increasing as soon as i hit boost
I cannot explain how the stock DV is junk. I donā€™t have any experience with the other electronic valves but I can attest for sure there is a performance difference getting away from the stock one. So many people discount the potential gain and think that itā€™s not a key player but the stock ones suck. They leak and are in general poor performers even stock. They do their jobs and thatā€™s it. Open or closed. The vacuum one opens according to pressure, not open or closed based off of throttle position, so thereā€™s a variance as to how slow or fast and how little or much it opens, versus the stock one which is one or the other. Itā€™s just different. I canā€™t prove Dyna results but Iā€™ve taken the time to compare the two.
So how does it work with just a GFB DV+? I don't need a new tune for that, it will simply hold boost better so the turbo does't have to work as hard to maintain boost? But with a wastegate upgrade, is it true you just unplug the factory one on the turbo, you tell your tuner about this and they tune you for the new wastegate and disable the code for the factory solenoid version? But where does the TurboSmart WG go, where the Symposer is or ?
 


A7xogg

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#38
So how does it work with just a GFB DV+? I don't need a new tune for that, it will simply hold boost better so the turbo does't have to work as hard to maintain boost? But with a wastegate upgrade, is it true you just unplug the factory one on the turbo, you tell your tuner about this and they tune you for the new wastegate and disable the code for the factory solenoid version? But where does the TurboSmart WG go, where the Symposer is or ?
A dv+ works with stock tune so you don't need to do anything for a dv+, besides re-lube it every 10,000 miles or so. I think ur getting confused with the sound synposer delete bov relocation. The upgraded wastegate replaces the stock one, and make sure you have a tune waiting for you because you don't wanna run a tune for a stock wg with a upgraded one, you will over boost and break something
 


danbfree

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#39
A dv+ works with stock tune so you don't need to do anything for a dv+, besides re-lube it every 10,000 miles or so. I think ur getting confused with the sound synposer delete bov relocation. The upgraded wastegate replaces the stock one, and make sure you have a tune waiting for you because you don't wanna run a tune for a stock wg with a upgraded one, you will over boost and break something
Is it a bee-yotch to get to the turbo and replace the wastegate? And of course, i'd order the tune ahead of time and install it once I had it, that would be no bueno...
 


A7xogg

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#40
Is it a bee-yotch to get to the turbo and replace the wastegate? And of course, i'd order the tune ahead of time and install it once I had it, that would be no bueno...
Heat shield is a little pain if you don't take off the windshield plastic cowl
 




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