Honda stops production of the North American Car of the Year for 11 days due to slow sales

It's not a very good looking car and it certainly isn't cheap. I test drove the Elantra and it costs much less and it has decent performance for the money.

I wonder how slow SUV and cross-over sales are? Could simply be a general trend.
Should stress the word, QUALITY. If it's flub'n junk they can keep it. The popular assumption seems to be that people who want small, simply want small because it's cheap and throw-away. I want small because it's quick and maneuverable... doesn't weight 5,000 lbs. Even if there is the technology to make an elephant sized vehicle quick and maneuverable, it's just ugly to me. As it is, when I'm not using a 400 lb motorcycle to haul <150, I'm using this 2,700lb vehicle to haul <150lb. Why that needs to be 4,500+ I have no clue. I fit my passengers and cargo when I need to... which is not often. It's a preference and I get it. But removing our choice to not drive a tank, grinds my gears.

All sales in vehicles are down. But not way down like cars........here is the problem. Went to a dealer to drive a 6 sp manual Mustang Coyote this past saturday. The salesman of 9 years at that dealer had no clue what a ST Fiesta or Focus was and said he had never seen one at his dealership. That was the second Ford dealer that said that to me and the first one had three salesmen out looking at mine. Americans just don't buy small cars much less expensive small cars. Mine is a 2016 and Friday I saw another white FiST for the first time. 3 years and 12-14 different states and not one white one and maybe 8-10 total including my Daughters! Who has bought a FiST and did not get rebates on them? BTW, they had ONE 6 speed Coyote Mustang and it was on the floor! Had about 10 auto Coyotes and a dozen 4's. Said they seldom sell a manual Coyote. Sad to me! Did anyone know if you want a CD player in a Mustang GT it will cost you $4900 over a base GT? How crazy is that?

You just proved why Americans have been buying fewer small cars. Because the dealers quit ordering them in favor of crossovers that they make $10,000 more profit per unit, yet the car costs the same to make. And the public has gone along with it, thinking that crossovers and SUV's are what they want because the manufacturers and dealers told them that minivans weren't cool and nobody buys cars any more.

What I proved is that people don't buy them so dealers don't stock them, as a retired business owner you stock your store with what sells NOT what you WANT to sell. A business has a finite space for products, it MUST be stocked with what sells. Any store will go broke stocking things that do not turn over. The proof is simple, rebates prove what does not sell. We on this Forum are a minority of vehicle buyers. We dislike the car makers decisions in the USA. But it is a sound financial decision. Do you go into a dealership and buy what they want to sell you? Really? How did you buy a FiST rather than a F150? LOL! The dealer would have much preferred to sell you a truck. Maybe it is me being so stupid, I actually buy what I want. My daughter thought she wanted an SUV because she has a child, after 3 years she got wise and bought a FiST. We as a country have ceded low profit car sales to the Japanese and Koreans. I would not have bought a standard Fiesta or Focus, our family buys high performance cars. Until the FiST American cars were crap, I have owned many more foreign cars than American and I have no loyalty to any maker, but if I buy another new car in my life it will probably be a Mustang as no foreign or other domestic car can compare at this time. Ford has the pulse of performance buyers but they did not spend money on the ST pair. We who did cannot be happier but we are a minority. So they went the way of the Dodo bird. Honda makes some nice inexpensive performance cars but I won't buy one because the are ugly as funk! I have never owned a truck or SUV and never will.

BTW, the cost of building a FiST is nowhere the same as a Mustang or F150 truck!

If that's the case they should have made a lot of money on the fiesta and focus ST. You can get a base model F-150 work truck for $22,000 easy after discounts. You can get a base model Mustang in the low twenties. So if they make money on those they should have been making a killing on small cars with a performance engine.
I believe the point he was trying to make about things costing the same to build is most of the crossovers are built off of car platforms. The ecosport is built off the fiesta, and the escape is built off the focus.


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You are not the average car buyer. They buy what they see on the TV and on the lot, or what their neighbor has. And the fact that the salesmen at the dealership didn't even know about a car they could have been selling says that their dealership hasn't ever ordered them. Therefore, they can't even fathom that if a person wanted one they could get it. And most car buyers nowadays don't understand car buying either. As you said, cars, and especially small cars, are low profit compared to SUV's, crossovers, and trucks, which are carrying inflated prices. So the dealers don't want to mess with cars at all.
In the past they tolerated low profit small cars because they were considered a "starter" car for a young buyer, who would move up over the years. Nowadays younger people have, for whatever reason, quit desiring to even have cars, or wait until they can get an expensive vehicle before they buy one later in life.
American car buyers are doing this much differently from the rest of the world. It really does come down to what America has been marketed, both in advertising and in available dealer inventory. And the profit motive, I suspect, is the greatest driver of that trend.

More numbers to crunch

U.S. new vehicle sales of 1,343,842 units for the month of October 2019 represented a 0.7% decrease from October 2018.
October’s passenger car sales fell 16.4% to 355,266 units, while SUV and truck sales increased 6.4% to 988,576 units.

In other words truck/SUV's out sell cars by almost 3 to 1 and car sales keep dropping with trucks/SUV's going up. Ford and GM, FCA are simply responding to the market. We may not like it but any business has to provide what the customer wants not some Voodoo of convincing a car buyer they want a truck.

Average 2018 F150 transaction price was $47,174, higher now in 2019 but no data yet
AVG 2018 ecoboost base Mustang $26,280 and they sell very few of those
AVG Mustang GT 2019 5.0 6 spd non premium is $35,242 add $6k for a premium/auto (most popular GT)
2019 fiesta non ST $14,768 , no data on ST but a good guess would be about $19K

So the average F150 sells for about $28K more that a ST. About $32K over a base Fiesta.
BTW, the newer SUV's are no longer body on frame except the Expedition.......so no assumed savings from a truck chassis. Just a Coyote engine and 10 spd will probably cost you more that a base Fiesta. Much less the rest of the car or truck.
Question......if you were Ford why would you take lot space for a $15K Fiesta over a $47K F150 when they sell 3 to 1?? Errrrrrr.......you wouldn't. If a dealer had a market for FiST's they would have them. I got mine in the Metro Atlanta area where there was a market and they sold them. I stated the two dealers I was talking about were rural dealers where the market is mainly F150's that had never seen a FiST. I'm pretty sure the L.A. Cali dealers do not stock the vast number of F150's as a rural dealer. Our 3 local dealers had 1 FiST total when I bought mine in 2016........and I did not want it due to the color and Recaros.

FoMoCo USA marketing plan has to do with the UK and EU having roads too damn narrow for a F150/SUV's and gas prices through the roof. Completely different environment than the USA. I have driven in France, Italy, Portugal and the UK and you could not give an F150 away!
I and my circle ARE the average CAR buyers, all of my immediate family and friends know what they want to buy before going to a dealer. I personally know of nobody that bought what a dealer wants to sell unless like my oldest son they wanted the cheapest car on the lot!

I am not happy about no new FiST's but the cost alone of crash testing and the new engine certification would be more for Ford than the profit on the less than 3500 per year FiST's they sold with rebates. I cannot fault FoMoCo for doing the right thing for the stockholders. If the market changes all three makers will bring them back. In the meantime enjoy the price of your used FiST going up, Wrench on!

It's just amazing that other manufacturers can sell motorcycles, campers, and everything in between... but Ford & Chevy can't afford to sell a car.

So quality small vehicles may become a niche market like a motorcycle, like a camper. Who's going to fill this niche? Tesla? Perhaps a Korean manufacturer? Perhaps a Chinese manufacturer may try to penetrate the market on this platform?

What's funny is where I live I'm seeing a ton of new Honda accords and I do mean a lot.
Department stores say Amazon is killing them. All I wanted to do was buy some plain t-shirts different colors that looked decent. I went to the mall and went to several stores I could not find one single plain t-shirt, so what did I do I went to Amazon.

My point you can't sell what you don't have.


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"Can't afford to sell a car."??? Why would they want too? Why would a company take financial losses for a product...any product. Ford, GM and FCA are not charities. There are many fine small cars in this country already. If the Fiesta ST had not come to the USA I would probably be driving a Honda Civic Si. If my Fiesta ST dies I will buy a Honda unless I succumb to the siren call of a Mustang GT which has zero foreign competition. The big 3 are simply producing what they are good at. No foreign pickup can compete with domestic pickups. So stick with what the market demands and leave the lower profit vehicles to the Japanese and Koreans in the USA. Remember the Fiesta (Kuga) is a strong seller in the rest of the world. So stopping the sales in the USA will cause them no financial penalty. And will increase the sales of higher ticketed items by providing more in stock choices. "Sell from stock" is always the mantra at a dealership. If I owned a Ford dealership I would be dancing with joy.

Consider that they're taking losses, not because there isn't money to be made, but because they're spending too much money to make it. Cut overhead... particularly the CEO bonuses and opulent contracts. There's no reason why you should be able to pay literally thousands of line workers from one man's hiring bonus and contract. (and that doesn't even take the perks into consideration)

He is never going to see it our way, there's no point in arguing with a retired person.




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Hehe... I was sensing a bit of intransigence as well. Toyota sells a lot of trucks, locally.

The Tacoma sells great.

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