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All I seem to see are V dyno results? Why no real dyno plots/graphs?

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#1
Hey All
Now, I know this has the potential to start some arguments and that's definitely not the intention!
But for me, in the short time I've been on this forum, looking at upgrades, all I seem to see are V dyno plots and hardly any real dyno plots?!
I'm pretty sure I can assume the reason being is the cost/time argument but in reality, how accurate are they?
Don't get me wrong, I know you can have a massive difference between 2 real dyno's so accuracy/comparison can be a mute point.

But, from what I've already seen, no one seems to back up their v dyno plots with real ones?
Maybe it's because I'm old school and can't get my head round the v dyno but I'd much prefer to see a real dyno plot.

Please don't flame me down, I'm just trying to understand it, that's all.

Thanks for your time.

Dazzle
 


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#2
vDynos are useful in seeing gains, not necessarily super-accurate power numbers. if you do a pull on the same road in roughly the same conditions before and after a mod/tune, you can pretty accurately see the improvement.
 


jeff

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#3
3 things come to mind:

1 COST
Dyno is $105 for 3 runs or $200/hour where I live, plus a few hours of driving so you are giving up a half day or more...V-Dyno is free.

2 REDLINE
OEM redline fuel cutoff happens at 6500rpms which, in 2nd gear, is at about 57 mph, so any 0-60 time done on an Accessport is still gonna be low for that reason, as a shift from 2nd to 3rd is required, unless redline is raised to get to 60 in 2nd gear.

3 TRACTION
With MRX or Garrett or Puma or Perron or whatever turbo on the car, 1st and 2nd gear rip the tires up even more than on the stock turbo. For this reason it's hard to get a decent 0-60 time. The thing people are more interested in is coming out of a corner in 2nd gear and going WOT, or perhaps flooring it at 30mph in 3rd gear onto the interstate or playing around with V8s as such.

Point being, I bet most who do turbo upgrades aren't thinking of 0-60 much due to reasons (2) and (3) above, but rather other uses of the new power.

*****
Having said that I'm going to a real dyno (Topspeed in Atlanta, one of the best) later this fall and will post results. I've only had the X47 on my car for a few months but have been tuning that entire time up until yesterday....but now that I'm done and weather is cooling I'll be having results for you in a month or so.

If you're looking for an idea of "real world" performance on these turbo upgrades, the best thing I'd advise is hop onto Youtube and check out some of the races on closed roads in Mexico that [MENTION=4033]Ish[/MENTION] and others have done with their X37, X47, DHM and other turbo swaps, and see how the Fiesta compares to a 5.0 GT/STi/Golf R etc from a roll.
 


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#4
I've Dyno'd 4 times. I'm full bolt on with an x47. I did 306hp and 327lbs of torque to the wheels.
 


OP
D
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Thread Starter #6
Who said anything about 0-60?
I'm glad someone else spotted that because I just couldn't work it out no matter how many times I read it!

Another thing to add and this ties into another thread, why do the V-dyno guys do their 'pulls' in third gear?
Surely it should be the same as on a dyno, fourth gear as it's the closest to 1:1 (don't know if fourth is exactly 1:1 so please don't shoot me [thumb])

I read someone say they had done a pull in fourth but it read lower numbers!
Well, that makes sense to me as when using third gear, aren't you using a multiplication factor as you're not at 1:1??

Again, I'm only asking questions so I can understand, not knocking anyone [thumb]
 


jeff

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#7
Who said anything about 0-60?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I'm glad someone else spotted that because I just couldn't work it out no matter how many times I read it!

Another thing to add and this ties into another thread, why do the V-dyno guys do their 'pulls' in third gear?
Surely it should be the same as on a dyno, fourth gear as it's the closest to 1:1 (don't know if fourth is exactly 1:1 so please don't shoot me [thumb])

I read someone say they had done a pull in fourth but it read lower numbers!
Well, that makes sense to me as when using third gear, aren't you using a multiplication factor as you're not at 1:1??

Again, I'm only asking questions so I can understand, not knocking anyone [thumb]
Sorry guys. That is confusing. The reason I did that is when I made that post I had also posted in another thread where somebody was asking about time to reach 60 with a hybrid. I mixed up my thinking and shared similar information in two different places.

Most of us don't do virtual Dyno runs in fourth gear because you would have to be around 120 mph to get a complete log to Red line which is unsafe and illegal.
 


OP
D
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Thread Starter #8
Sorry guys. That is confusing. The reason I did that is when I made that post I had also posted in another thread where somebody was asking about time to reach 60 with a hybrid. I mixed up my thinking and shared similar information in two different places.

Most of us don't do virtual Dyno runs in fourth gear because you would have to be around 120 mph to get a complete log to Red line which is unsafe and illegal.
Aaaah, that makes sense now, just couldn't understand the 0-60 reference [:)]

And thanks for clearing that up with the v-dyno readings, never thought about it that way. Not good getting stopped by the old bill just because you wanted a v-dyno log
 


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#9
Ive put my car on the dyno twice and the results have been...interesting? Both were on the same dyno, same ambient conditions, and same operator. Ill throw mine on the dyno again once the tuning is all said and done. Ive had the dyno operator do pulls in 3rd and 4th gear, and have consistently found this car makes better numbers in 3rd. The operator says he sees that often with small-displacement vehicles stating they "often like the mechanical advantage." Not sure if their is any validity to that, but the numbers show what they show.
 


haste

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#10
I'd be interested to see the numbers you have gotten, FiestaTexas, both in 3rd and 4th gear.

4th gear ratio is 1.032. 3rd gear is 1.357.

Logically, 4th gear pulls make more sense for true power output. It puts the most load on the powertrain.

I've never tried a datalog/Vdyno graph in 3rd gear. Maybe I should give it a try since all of my Vdynos are 4th gear pulls. I am also tuned using 4th gear datalogs.

I'd also be curious to see if the tuned cars here would see more negative corrections doing 4th gear pulls since most are tuned from datalogs done in 3rd.
 


Fha

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#11
I'd be interested to see the numbers you have gotten, FiestaTexas, both in 3rd and 4th gear.

4th gear ratio is 1.032. 3rd gear is 1.357.

Logically, 4th gear pulls make more sense for true power output. It puts the most load on the powertrain.

I've never tried a datalog/Vdyno graph in 3rd gear. Maybe I should give it a try since all of my Vdynos are 4th gear pulls. I am also tuned using 4th gear datalogs.

I'd also be curious to see if the tuned cars here would see more negative corrections doing 4th gear pulls since most are tuned from datalogs done in 3rd.
Would be interesting. I think reason we see so many VDyno's is just it is "Free" in a sense. As mentioned before Cost of having Dyno time and such can get pricey. All Vdyno good for is to compare a before upgrade and after upgrade on the same road and tire. As well similar weather pattern. All it is useful for. To me anyways.
 




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