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Valvoline "Modern Engine" synthetic oil

M-Sport fan

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#24
CORRECT!

But most of the 5W-30s have at least a slightly lower NOACK volatility rate than the 5W-20s (which helps prevent LSPI, and valve buildup gunk), and since the FiST manuals now state that 5W-30s are 'allowed', I will use that weight in the summer months. ;)
 


OP
CGLENN27
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Thread Starter #25
With in a couple dollars of any other brand. I'm just not a fan of Valvoline
I used to feel the same way but actually looking at the blackstone labs report...its actually a good motor oil. I don't really have brand loyalty to any of them and for the most part they all do a pretty damn good job. I don't care who makes it, I just like the formula they've created and seems to suit our engines.
 


TyphoonFiST

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#26
I used to feel the same way but actually looking at the blackstone labs report...its actually a good motor oil. I don't really have brand loyalty to any of them and for the most part they all do a pretty damn good job. I don't care who makes it, I just like the formula they've created and seems to suit our engines.
Agreed!


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CGLENN27
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Thread Starter #27
Oil is all up to the person. I grew up on Castro from my dad and once I grew up I learned their synthetics are trash so went to Mobil and Rotella T6 only with OEM or Mobil or Napa Gold filters

And I you spend $25 at Wal-Mart for the oil and $9 for the filter so it's all the same price cause you get the discounts at AutoZone for like $34 with all Mobil stuff
I would agree to a certain point. If you look at lab results, you'll find that conventional and synthetic both protect very well. The big difference, they say, is that synthetic doesn't break down as fast and can be used much longer. They say you have excessive wear on the engine on the first start-up after your oil change. So, essentially...(from what they said) the only benefit of using synthetic motor oil is getting to run it longer, while still protecting your engine...thus needing fewer oil changes which in turn causes less damage (from the starts right after your oil change). Obviously I'm using second hand information but I've always used full synthetics on all my vehicles and I've had a 270k Acura TL Type-S (had since 50k) and a Chevy Suburban (that i still have) that has 340k. A few others too but those I had the longest and the most miles.
The truth is, most all these major brand oils are extremely good compared to what everyone had years ago. As long as you do regular maintenance and keep it topped off... you should be fine under normal driving conditions but you have to note too that these cars came with a synthetic blend and with it being GDI and turbo, the engine really depends on a good quality oil.... especially if you drive it hard.
 


M-Sport fan

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#28
^^^Another reason to go for full synthetics (yes, even the group 3+ base stock/GTL/Visom etc. ones, let alone the superior group 4/5 mixes) is that they generally have MUCH better base stocks than the mineral based/conventional oils (and 'blends') use in their formulations.

This almost always results in a lower NOACK volatility rate vs. mineral based oils/blends, for the same given SAE weight/HTHS viscosity, which we WANT in these turbo GDI EcoBoosts to help stave off LSPI, and intake valve deposits as much as possible. ;)
 


jmrtsus

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#29
I would agree to a certain point. If you look at lab results, you'll find that conventional and synthetic both protect very well. The big difference, they say, is that synthetic doesn't break down as fast and can be used much longer. They say you have excessive wear on the engine on the first start-up after your oil change. So, essentially...(from what they said) the only benefit of using synthetic motor oil is getting to run it longer, while still protecting your engine...thus needing fewer oil changes which in turn causes less damage (from the starts right after your oil change). Obviously I'm using second hand information but I've always used full synthetics on all my vehicles and I've had a 270k Acura TL Type-S (had since 50k) and a Chevy Suburban (that i still have) that has 340k. A few others too but those I had the longest and the most miles.
The truth is, most all these major brand oils are extremely good compared to what everyone had years ago. As long as you do regular maintenance and keep it topped off... you should be fine under normal driving conditions but you have to note too that these cars came with a synthetic blend and with it being GDI and turbo, the engine really depends on a good quality oil.... especially if you drive it hard.
FWIW, my 2 cents. I think you feel the oil our cars came with is somehow substandard, that is not the case. The blend the car came with is what is specified along with the Full Syn version for a reason. I believe Ford feels as I do that some Dino oils is beneficial in break-in and that most ST owners will probably switch to the full syn oil at the first oil change. What you are missing is the add pack of the oils specified. The Motorcraft oils are made by Kendall and the same as Kendall GT oils. Kendall invented the liquid titanium compound in their oils. Castrol Edge also adds Titanium. The reason that is important is that it is proven by independant test to work, one of which is by the U.S. National Institute of Standard and Testing which is quoted in the abstract of the test below. In a nutshell is was proven to reduce wear, decrease friction and reduce heat. All things I consider to be a requirement for longevity. I plan on keeping my ST for many years so I will stick to the only additived proven at this point to do those things. It should be noted this is the oils specified by Ford and the other titanium added oil is Castrol Edge, the standard oil for the racing Ford GT's. Ford is a believer in titanium.
So I will follow with Fords recommended oil, if you can find it the Motorcraft it makes it easy but all I can find is the blend, if not chase down the Kendall GT online. The oil tested was the Kendall GT oil as at the time it was to only commercial gasoline engine oil with it, no name mentioned in the study for "non-endorsement" regulations. The Valvoline I am sure is a very good oil, but if there were some super secret formula that did something no other oil did it would be all over the label and ads. The fact that it is not tells me they are just spouting the generic benefits of all synthetics. You will notice Kendall and Castrol Edge display the "Titanium" on their labels. Below is the quote. I did not read the complete paper......the abstract was entertaining enough for me. I did read part of the study with a trucking company and Kendall Diesel oil with titanium that showed extended time between rebuilds and increased mileage with the friction reduction. I think on our engines temp is very important and this oil reduces temps with the friction reduction and the thinner 20 weight circulates faster. So all in all I think Ford made a wise decision given they could have used any oil they wanted. Who knows where oil will be in 5 years?

Published: February 27, 2007
Author(s)
J M. Guevremont, G H. Guinther, D Szemenyei, Mark Devlin, T-C Jao, Cherno Jaye, Joseph C. Woicik, Daniel A. Fischer
Abstract
Traditionally, wear protection and friction modification by engine oil are provided by zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) or other phosphorus compounds. These additives provide effective wear protection and friction control on engine parts through formation of a glassy polyphosphate antiwear film. However, the deposition of phosphorus species on automotive catalytic converters from lubricants has been known for some time to have a detrimental effect of poisoning the catalysts. To mitigate the situation, the industry has been making every effort to find ZDDP-replacement additives that are friendly to catalysts. Toward this goal we have investigated a titanium additive chemistry as a ZDDP replacement. Fully formulated engine oils incorporating this additive component have been found to be effective in reducing wear and controlling friction in a 4-ball bench wear, Sequence IIIG and Sequence IVA engine tests. Surface analysis of the tested parts by Auger electron spectroscopy, secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS), and X-Ray photoelectron spectroscopy (XPS) have shown that Ti species have been incorporated into the wear tracks and can only be found on the wear tracks. We used synchrotron based Near Edge X-ray Absorption Fine Structure (NEXAFS) to investigate the chemical bonding mechanism of the Ti additive with the metal surface that affects the wear improvement mechanism. We postulate that Ti provides antiwear enhancement through inclusion in the metal/metal oxide structure of the ferrous surface by forming Fe2TiO3.
Proceedings Title: STLE Annual Meeting & Exhibition | 62nd| | STLE
Conference Dates: May 6-10, 2007
Conference Title: Society of Tribologists & Lubrication Engineers (STLE) Proceedings
Pub Type: Conferences
Keywords
antiwear, barrier films, EXAFS, friction modifying, titanium
 


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#30
Oil is all up to the person. I grew up on Castro from my dad and once I grew up I learned their synthetics are trash so went to Mobil and Rotella T6 only with OEM or Mobil or Napa Gold filters

And I you spend $25 at Wal-Mart for the oil and $9 for the filter so it's all the same price cause you get the discounts at AutoZone for like $34 with all Mobil stuff
I miss running the Rotella T6, I for whatever reason liked running it on my Mazdaspeed6. Haven't heard anybody run it on these Ecoboost motors so I stay off it.
 


M-Sport fan

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#31
I miss running the Rotella T6, I for whatever reason liked running it on my Mazdaspeed6. Haven't heard anybody run it on these Ecoboost motors so I stay off it.
When did Mazda go to GDI on the Speed 3s/6es?

NOT so sure I would want to run an old school formulation, diesel type, stout detergent/dispersant additive pack laden oil (SKY HIGH calcium levels!) in a GDI engine, even though yes, it is marketed for BOTH port injected gas, and diesel engines (but NOT GDI engines particularly).
Same goes for the Amsoil Series 3000 oil as well. ;)
 


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#32
I assume it was when they started the last generation Speeds. It was really big thread over on mazdaspeeforums.org for a long time. They had oil analyses and all that good stuff on it.
 


HardBoiledEgg

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#33
I do......


Mobile is usually cheaper so I go with it

But I ran T6 for two or three oil changes with OEM filter
 


TyphoonFiST

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#37
I miss running the Rotella T6, I for whatever reason liked running it on my Mazdaspeed6. Haven't heard anybody run it on these Ecoboost motors so I stay off it.
Oreillys makes a multi use 5w40 in Rotella T-6....run whatever you like after the good old warranty is up. As long as there is something in there is what matters most....Better than no lube...that shit hurts on both ends in the end.


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OP
CGLENN27
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Thread Starter #38
FWIW, my 2 cents. I think you feel the oil our cars came with is somehow substandard, that is not the case. The blend the car came with is what is specified along with the Full Syn version for a reason. I believe Ford feels as I do that some Dino oils is beneficial in break-in and that most ST owners will probably switch to the full syn oil at the first oil change. What you are missing is the add pack of the oils specified. The Motorcraft oils are made by Kendall and the same as Kendall GT oils. Kendall invented the liquid titanium compound in their oils. Castrol Edge also adds Titanium. The reason that is important is that it is proven by independant test to work, one of which is by the U.S. National Institute of Standard and Testing which is quoted in the abstract of the test below. In a nutshell is was proven to reduce wear, decrease friction and reduce heat. All things I consider to be a requirement for longevity. I plan on keeping my ST for many years so I will stick to the only additived proven at this point to do those things. It should be noted this is the oils specified by Ford and the other titanium added oil is Castrol Edge, the standard oil for the racing Ford GT's. Ford is a believer in titanium.
So I will follow with Fords recommended oil, if you can find it the Motorcraft it makes it easy but all I can find is the blend, if not chase down the Kendall GT online. The oil tested was the Kendall GT oil as at the time it was to only commercial gasoline engine oil with it, no name mentioned in the study for "non-endorsement" regulations. The Valvoline I am sure is a very good oil, but if there were some super secret formula that did something no other oil did it would be all over the label and ads. The fact that it is not tells me they are just spouting the generic benefits of all synthetics. You will notice Kendall and Castrol Edge display the "Titanium" on their labels. Below is the quote. I did not read the complete paper......the abstract was entertaining enough for me. I did read part of the study with a trucking company and Kendall Diesel oil with titanium that showed extended time between rebuilds and increased mileage with the friction reduction. I think on our engines temp is very important and this oil reduces temps with the friction reduction and the thinner 20 weight circulates faster. So all in all I think Ford made a wise decision given they could have used any oil they wanted. Who knows where oil will be in 5 years?

Published: February 27, 2007
Author(s)
J M. Guevremont, G H. Guinther, D Szemenyei, Mark Devlin, T-C Jao, Cherno Jaye, Joseph C. Woicik, Daniel A. Fischer
Abstract
Traditionally, wear protection and friction modification by engine oil are provided by zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) or other phosphorus compounds. These additives provide effective wear protection and friction control on engine parts through formation of a glassy polyphosphate antiwear film. However, the deposition of phosphorus species on automotive catalytic converters from lubricants has been known for some time to have a detrimental effect of poisoning the catalysts. To mitigate the situation, the industry has been making every effort to find ZDDP-replacement additives that are friendly to catalysts. Toward this goal we have investigated a titanium additive chemistry as a ZDDP replacement. Fully formulated engine oils incorporating this additive component have been found to be effective in reducing wear and controlling friction in a 4-ball bench wear, Sequence IIIG and Sequence IVA engine tests. Surface analysis of the tested parts by Auger electron spectroscopy, secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS), and X-Ray photoelectron spectroscopy (XPS) have shown that Ti species have been incorporated into the wear tracks and can only be found on the wear tracks. We used synchrotron based Near Edge X-ray Absorption Fine Structure (NEXAFS) to investigate the chemical bonding mechanism of the Ti additive with the metal surface that affects the wear improvement mechanism. We postulate that Ti provides antiwear enhancement through inclusion in the metal/metal oxide structure of the ferrous surface by forming Fe2TiO3.
Proceedings Title: STLE Annual Meeting & Exhibition | 62nd| | STLE
Conference Dates: May 6-10, 2007
Conference Title: Society of Tribologists & Lubrication Engineers (STLE) Proceedings
Pub Type: Conferences
Keywords
antiwear, barrier films, EXAFS, friction modifying, titanium
I definitely don't think that the oil that the car came with is substandard but I can also tell you that automakers work on a cost analysis basis. And I can tell you this because I work at a GM dealer and across the board, they use the same oil for every model that uses that same type and weight. Like I originally said, all these oils are very good. I just chose to run this. Thanks for the info.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/21f8644f-d5bf-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1/dd7306bd-0ee0-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

I looked through the safety data sheet and couldn't find Titanium. Not sure if it would even be on there but I'd be curious to know why ford likes it in all their engines and not many others do
 


OP
CGLENN27
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Thread Starter #39
When did Mazda go to GDI on the Speed 3s/6es?

NOT so sure I would want to run an old school formulation, diesel type, stout detergent/dispersant additive pack laden oil (SKY HIGH calcium levels!) in a GDI engine, even though yes, it is marketed for BOTH port injected gas, and diesel engines (but NOT GDI engines particularly).
Same goes for the Amsoil Series 3000 oil as well. ;)
It was about 10 years ago. They were one of the first and were actually using a distant cousin of the 2.3L turbo Ford engine. With the new GDI tech though, it did have its issues.
[video=youtube;V9Um0bAcRNE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Um0bAcRNE&t=516s[/video]
 


jmrtsus

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#40
GLENN27....I would think the reduced wear and lower friction is why Ford uses it. As to why others don't use it, I think since Ford contracts for it as their Motorcraft Oil I would believe their contract with Kendall would be an exclusive contract. By the same token GM (nor the others) does not want to be caught using Motorcraft oil I am sure. The patent Kendall has on the liquid Titanium may have run out by now since Castrol Edge has it. Or with the Ford connections maybe they get it from Kendall. According to Kendall getting the titanium suspended in an oil was the problem and the process was patented by Kendall. All top tier oils are good......I just think the tests by the FEDs and Fords recommendation is enough for me. But who knows what the next improvement is and when. But I now have a choice in oils!
 


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