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I switched to Electric!

M-Sport fan

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#21
CONGRATS on the job AND the new car! [thumb]

Regardless of any of the 'downfalls/disadvantages' of an EV car mentioned in the naysaying posts above, I personally think it looks at least 10,000x better than ANY Prius model (yup, I know they are hybrids vs. EVs, but they are often cross-shopped/compared with this car, and I am speaking only to the aesthetics here), or the Leaf, besides blowing them away in performance. [wink] [grinking]
 


Intuit

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#22
I agree with this. The other question that always comes to my mind though is this. What do we do with all these dead li ion batteries down the road? While everyone hopes on the EV is great it's clean bandwagon no wants to listen or discuss the dirty little secrets. It takes more energy to make these batteries which is done by fossil fuel burning plants. The batteries are un recyclable and basically landfall material . Which translates to massive amounts of ground waste.
Stick your head in the sand it's true.
A better way to go would be to do what Mazda is doing with ICE. A better way to would be Hydrogen fuel cells which only put out water vapor for exhaust. Ya Honda and Toyota are looking into this.
I am sorry but while the Bolt is a cool little car do not fool yourself it's far from the answer as are Tesla's.
Hadn't thought about that, but yeah, no stick, no buy. Automatic transmissions automatically have problems; more especially if you're rude with the accelerator.

To draw on a historical parallel, natural gas was and perhaps still is more expensive than coal. (ignoring all the mining and transport costs) But one of the key benefits is in emissions.

We've had a small battery recycling facility at the bottom of the hill around here for many decades (starting with lead-acid and Ni-Cads) and they've updated to accept all the small batteries from modern devices. I assume they're able to get some use out of them; whether it's just recycling the raw materials or other, don't know.

It's true that there are material costs for production and post use or end of life disposal challenges. But it's all relative. Locating, mining, storing, transporting, storing, refining, storing, transporting, storing then finally pumping gasoline/diesel into your vehicle's storage for maybe a week or two, has it's costs as well. All of those storage tanks and local pipelines have to be maintained and periodically replaced as well. Does it all wash out in the end? This would be a good question to answer.

Relative to the combustion engine, electric motors are far, far, far less wasteful in converting stored energy into kinetic energy. The trick would be to figure out a less wasteful method for converting crude oil, into kinetic energy, than the modern combustion engine affords.

Another thing to consider, energy can be created by means of the electric motor in reverse... https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/types-hydropower-plants

One thing that concerns me, are the inefficiencies, as well as the material costs of inductive charging. It's such a large convenience not to have to plug in, it will probably permeate the EV and plug-in hybrid markets at some point; adding to the preexisting energy losses that are already inherent to the battery charging/storing/discharging processes.
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #23
Tint and winter wheel setup installed. Looking into quotes to do a “chrome delete” for the nasty trim on top of the doors and near the rocker panel.



 


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#25
Great choice!

I have a Focus electric as well as the FiST and a FoRS. I love the FFE, and don't see many downsides. My wife is the primary driver, and she commutes about the same distance as the OP - 20km/day. The FFE only has 1/2 the range of a Bolt, and we still charge about once a week. Range is absolutely not a problem for us.

As a converted ICE car, the FFE is short on interior space. Ironic considering a true electric should have more space inside. Also, it may be the least 'sporty' car I've ever driven. It's quick enough, but so soft and floppy!
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #26
Great choice!

I have a Focus electric as well as the FiST and a FoRS. I love the FFE, and don't see many downsides. My wife is the primary driver, and she commutes about the same distance as the OP - 20km/day. The FFE only has 1/2 the range of a Bolt, and we still charge about once a week. Range is absolutely not a problem for us.

As a converted ICE car, the FFE is short on interior space. Ironic considering a true electric should have more space inside. Also, it may be the least 'sporty' car I've ever driven. It's quick enough, but so soft and floppy!
Sounds like that car would be a good candidate for a swap to stock ST suspension. Would get a little more firmness out of it. I'm currently looking at similar options for the Bolt.
 


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#27
I have to admit, my position regarding electric cars is changing. A few years ago it was no f,ing way would I ever buy one. But it seems our typical meddling governments will kill the internal combustion engine at some point. I have always had the position is that if you build a truly superior product, intelligent people will buy it, not needing to be forced by government.
I am not an early adopter of anything, but I can see in 5 years or less, electric may make sense. I live in northern Alberta where we can get long stretches of -20 C or lower temperatures in the winter. I wonder what the range will be in -20C weather? If you need to heat it, this would seem to me to put a tremendous draw on the batteries, so the range we could expect in winter conditions may be a fraction of what owners get in more temperate climates.
I have seen some encouraging information on rapid charge batteries that take minutes versus hours to recharge.
It will be interesting where the development goes over the next few years.
 


M-Sport fan

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#28
^^^Yes, in certain frigid areas they may require plug-in battery heaters, just like many now do with I.C.E. sump and block heaters, and yes, this is a problem for those who live in apartments/condos, or who must park outside, FAR away from their residences. :(
 


Intuit

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#29
[MENTION=4498]OffTheWall503[/MENTION] - With or without the chrome accents, the car is sharp with the black wheels. Are you going to paint the calipers red? [wink][wink]

[MENTION=1475]ZREXER[/MENTION] - You have to admit, the meddling govts usually put their... our money where their mouth is. Before they alter policy to encourage innovation, they provide monetary incentives to help offset the costs and risks for R&D.

[MENTION=4438]M-Sport fan[/MENTION] - I bought an expensive Shorai brand Li-Ion battery for my motorcycle. Out of all the positive reviews, forum posts, etcetera... what NOBODY told me was that they sssssuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk in mildly cold weather. (nearing 32F) Had to kick a brand new battery to the curb and go back to the old tried and true lead-acid. I'm 100% sure that there's a solution to that problem that didn't involve a heater or other though. The motorcycle and associated hardware simply wasn't engineered with cold temps in mind. So why make a battery that was setup for it? Would've been nice to have had a warning about the lack of CCA though.
 


M-Sport fan

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#30
[MENTION=4438]M-Sport fan[/MENTION] - I bought an expensive Shorai brand Li-Ion battery for my motorcycle. Out of all the positive reviews, forum posts, etcetera... what NOBODY told me was that they sssssuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk in mildly cold weather. (nearing 32F) Had to kick a brand new battery to the curb and go back to the old tried and true lead-acid.
I did not even think about the above in terms of just a starting battery! [ohcrap]
That may convince me to choose an AGM battery, instead of the MUCH MUCH co$tlier, but also substantially lighter (for a given CCA, AH, reserve, etc.) Lithium compound battery, when I decide to replace the factory Motorcraft lead acid deal for something LIGHTER (this car is a year 'round daily driver for me).
 


Intuit

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#31
.............. but also substantially lighter (for a given CCA, AH, reserve, etc.) Lithium compound battery, ..............
That right there is key. If it were comparably sized to the original lead-acid, it would work. But the comparably tiny and light weight replacements that are sold, might be a problem. Definitely try to find someone (other than the manufacturer who may be dishonest) that can vouch for cold weather performance.
 


OP
OffTheWall503

OffTheWall503

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Thread Starter #32
intuit said:
[MENTION=4438]M-Sport fan[/MENTION] - I bought an expensive Shorai brand Li-Ion battery for my motorcycle. Out of all the positive reviews, forum posts, etcetera... what NOBODY told me was that they sssssuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk in mildly cold weather. (nearing 32F) Had to kick a brand new battery to the curb and go back to the old tried and true lead-acid. I'm 100% sure that there's a solution to that problem that didn't involve a heater or other though. The motorcycle and associated hardware simply wasn't engineered with cold temps in mind. So why make a battery that was setup for it? Would've been nice to have had a warning about the lack of CCA though.
Funny enough, Tesla uses a deep charge marine style battery for their main 12V.
 


M-Sport fan

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#33
That right there is key. If it were comparably sized to the original lead-acid, it would work. But the comparably tiny and light weight replacements that are sold, might be a problem. Definitely try to find someone (other than the manufacturer who may be dishonest) that can vouch for cold weather performance.
It might just end up being one of the larger, 'street' sized Odyssey models, and NOT one of their racing series, like the ever popular, PC 680.
Even these are, most of the time, somewhat lighter than the equivalent power/ratings flooded lead acid factory/replacement deals, albeit NOT nearly as light as the tiny racing AGMs, nor the lithiums. [:(]
 


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#35
[MENTION=4498]OffTheWall503[/MENTION] - With or without the chrome accents, the car is sharp with the black wheels. Are you going to paint the calipers red? [wink][wink]

[MENTION=1475]ZREXER[/MENTION] - You have to admit, the meddling govts usually put their... our money where their mouth is. Before they alter policy to encourage innovation, they provide monetary incentives to help offset the costs and risks for R&D.

[MENTION=4438]M-Sport fan[/MENTION] - I bought an expensive Shorai brand Li-Ion battery for my motorcycle. Out of all the positive reviews, forum posts, etcetera... what NOBODY told me was that they sssssuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk in mildly cold weather. (nearing 32F) Had to kick a brand new battery to the curb and go back to the old tried and true lead-acid. I'm 100% sure that there's a solution to that problem that didn't involve a heater or other though. The motorcycle and associated hardware simply wasn't engineered with cold temps in mind. So why make a battery that was setup for it? Would've been nice to have had a warning about the lack of CCA though.
I have a real issue when government gets involved in what should be private industry. Some provinces such as Ontario and Quebec in Canada offer huge rebates for electric car purchases. Again, if private industry offers a practical, superior vehicle, intelligent people will buy it without the need of incentives or rebates. Incentives or rebates don't encourage car companies to build a superior product, just half assed efforts and they hope the rebates from governments will entice people to buy it. I think banning or setting artificial dead lines to kill ICE vehicles is government meddling at it's worst. Maybe in 10 to 15 years, who knows,ICE vehicles will be looked at like buggy whips and horse drawn wagons? Maybe we will all chuckle about how primitive the 'old' ICE vehicles were. But is should be our choice to make the switch, not government aiming a gun at out heads forcing the switch.

Interesting about the bike battery as I will need a new battery for my Suzuki Bandit 1250 in the spring and I was looking at the huge weight saving from a Li-Ion battery. Not anymore as cold start performance is something I need in Northern Alberta. Thought it would be an easy way to shave a bunch more weight for less than what my Akrapovic Titanium slip on saved (9 Lbs), but was pricy.
 


meFiSTo

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#36
My wife's daily driver (a frost/mint green 2000 Avalon inherited from my late Mom in 2011 and deployed as a "trainer" for my teenager at that time) is getting long in the tooth (although it is still insanely serviceable around town) will one day be replaced by something like this. Next year? Maybe. We test drove the little thing and love it. The 2018 Nissan Leaf might warrant consideration.

I'll keep my Ford hatchbacks until no longer feasible, but that Bolt looks like a very nice true grocery getter and daily for around here. No commute here, so keeping it charged will be comparatively easy. We also have our old 2000 Jeep GC Limited with some 160,000 miles on it or so. Around here, that thing is HANDY for the 3 weeks out of the year where we get a little bit stranded by snow/ice on our suburban hill. it'll be interesting to see what kind of AWD electric options emerge in the coming years.
 


Intuit

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#38
With that photo shoot, I can see why you wish to hide the chrome. Still a good look'n vehicle either way though.

...............Around here, that thing is HANDY for the 3 weeks out of the year where we get a little bit stranded by snow/ice on our suburban hill. it'll be interesting to see what kind of AWD electric options emerge in the coming years.
Ground clearance is really the only or primary limiter when it comes to Winter usability.
Upgrading with adjustable height suspension might be a cheaper alternative to funding an entirely separate vehicle.
[video]https://youtu.be/hnoVocddK7U[/video]
[wink]
 


Quisp

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#39
[MENTION=4498]OffTheWall503[/MENTION] - With or without the chrome accents, the car is sharp with the black wheels. Are you going to paint the calipers red? [wink][wink]

[MENTION=1475]ZREXER[/MENTION] - You have to admit, the meddling govts usually put their... our money where their mouth is. Before they alter policy to encourage innovation, they provide monetary incentives to help offset the costs and risks for R&D.

[MENTION=4438]M-Sport fan[/MENTION] - I bought an expensive Shorai brand Li-Ion battery for my motorcycle. Out of all the positive reviews, forum posts, etcetera... what NOBODY told me was that they sssssuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk in mildly cold weather. (nearing 32F) Had to kick a brand new battery to the curb and go back to the old tried and true lead-acid. I'm 100% sure that there's a solution to that problem that didn't involve a heater or other though. The motorcycle and associated hardware simply wasn't engineered with cold temps in mind. So why make a battery that was setup for it? Would've been nice to have had a warning about the lack of CCA though.
Cycling the ignition switch a couple times wakes them up. There's a YouTube vid demonstrating it.
 


Intuit

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#40
Yeah, I remember standing around for 10 minutes with the ignition key on before I could bbaarreelly get it crank'n with enough voltage to keep the ECU awake around 22°F. At those temps my fingers only have about an hour of tolerance so standing around waiting for a battery to gradually amp-up is significant.
 




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