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Big Power, Torque Steer, and You

Hijinx

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#1
There are some things which are definite. For instance, you're alive if you're reading this. Or perhaps, that big power and torque steer come hand-in-hand on a FWD platform. The former is very true, but the latter is case-by-case. I can with faith, tell you, reader, that big power in a Fiesta ST does NOT come with lane changing torque steer. At least, not in my experience. I'm by no means qualified to talk about the chassis, (so I chose to post in Performance Tuning, move if need be) but I believe, in conjunction with the powerband shift of a big turbo, our stiff chassis works to mitigate that problem.

So my post comes with two purposes. One is to submit in-cabin video of racing my car as evidence to prove there's little more (if none at all) torque steer added with yuge power. The other purpose is to hear out opinions and possibly view footage of their torque steer. I'm especially interested to see the recent rash of hybrids perspective on this. I also realize that torque steer could be subjective (weight/strenght of the person) because I'm not a small guy. But I don't feel that I have to hold on to the steering wheel any harder than before.

Here is video evidence 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1TKCNtItsg

Video evidence #2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0ZZyO08t0A&t=2s
 


TUX15ST

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#2
Good post, when i got my fist i was so used to my fost having such bad tq steer (stage3+) that it was amazing to have a car with a similar power to weight and basically no tq steer, so its good to know a bt/hybrid wont affect that too much
 


OP
Hijinx

Hijinx

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Thread Starter #3
Good post, when i got my fist i was so used to my fost having such bad tq steer (stage3+) that it was amazing to have a car with a similar power to weight and basically no tq steer, so its good to know a bt/hybrid wont affect that too much
Years ago, I test drove an MS3. I was driving a 2003 Eclipse GTS, so I had heard of torque steer. Being my first experience it was crazy to me. I didn't realize I'd have to hold on to the steering wheel and it damn near ripped out of my hands. I decided I didn't want an MS3.
 


DvC

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#4
my caliber srt4 was retarded torque steer. not so much in the fist with around the same power level
 


neeqness

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#5
I'm not 100% on this but I've found that a somewhat off alignment can have an affect as well...some cars, when from the factory, are somewhat lacking in their alignment and that in itself can make torque steer worse. Some dealers will check and make proper adjustments before placing on the lot or before handing off to the customer but not all.
 


Siestarider

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#6
Good thread Hijinx. My report is noticeable but easily manageable torque steer with Cobb S-3 stock turbo, Cyborg, and C39. I am running a Quaife, so it probably helps, but I installed it to get earlier dig out of turns, not to manage TS. It definitely provides the traction I desired. After running with it 2 years, I do not remember stock torque steer well enough to compare. And I started messing with hybrids after LSD was installed.
 


OP
Hijinx

Hijinx

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Thread Starter #7
I'm not 100% on this but I've found that a somewhat off alignment can have an affect as well...some cars, when from the factory, are somewhat lacking in their alignment and that in itself can make torque steer worse. Some dealers will check and make proper adjustments before placing on the lot or before handing off to the customer but not all.
That's a fair point. I can see funky alignment causing more torque steer.
 


jeff

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#8
Those videos are great. How is it that you don't have troublesome torque steer when many of the BT reviews I've read/watched mention the driver complaining of massive torque steer? Most recently is the one from the Mountune M265 upgrade, he mentions torque steer several times in the review.

A bit confused at the conflicting reports but happy for you that you aren't running into that problem.
 


OP
Hijinx

Hijinx

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Thread Starter #9
Those videos are great. How is it that you don't have troublesome torque steer when many of the BT reviews I've read/watched mention the driver complaining of massive torque steer? Most recently is the one from the Mountune M265 upgrade, he mentions torque steer several times in the review.

A bit confused at the conflicting reports but happy for you that you aren't running into that problem.
Maybe it's the 6-point brace? My other idea is that my powerband is to the right and I'm moving out by the time I hit my 382wtq peak. An OEM frame hybrid turbo still produces a ton of torque on the low end. Maybe the lower speeds exacerbate that? That's basically why I started this thread. I want to see what contributes to the torque steer others complain about: is it perception or mods?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


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#10
I had a MS3, and torque steer was awful. Hit a paint line and into the next lane you go. I have a much better power to weight ratio in the fist and don't get anywhere close to as much torque steer as the speed3.
 


TUX15ST

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#11
Just as a reference, the FoST hits full TQ by 2500 RPM and Fist is at 4200 RPM. I believe this is the biggest reason even at similar power level the Fist has significantly less TQ Steer
 


M-Sport fan

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#12
I am running a Quaife, so it probably helps, but I installed it to get earlier dig out of turns, not to manage TS. It definitely provides the traction I desired.
+1 and x1000!

I am NOT worried about torque steer, but about having the TRACTION to be able to use the power I have (regardless of where it is in the power band), both off the line, yes, but MUCH more importantly, launching off of apexes in a car that transfers all of it's weight off of the driven wheels on acceleration. [:(]

THIS is why I am VERY hesitant to go even hybrid until that EXORBITANTLY co$tly (installed price) Wavetrac is in the transaxle. [wink]
 


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#13
Alignment can drastically affect torque steer in my experience. I've driven fwd cars for decades, off and on, and have a lot of negative camber dialed in to help my tires wear more easily. I like twisties. Unfortunately, they usually come in the form of interstate on- and off-ramps more than on roads where I live. Also, I find torque steer to be more of an issue when turning, and even moreso if the pavement is uneven, sloped, etc. I've definitely had to catch or fight the wheel at times in a 2000 Celica GT-S with and without LSD. I've put around 250,000 miles total on two of those chassis' over about 14 years combined. The cars saw a huge amount of highway and a moderate amount of autocross. Combine my alignment specs, grippy tires, uneven pavement and perhaps some acceleration on a curve and you have to fight some squirm. LOL
 


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#14
What I want to see is the steering wheel torque without having hands on the wheel. Standing start, full throttle, 1/4 mile take off, no hands. The ST would end up in the wall. It has the most torque steer of any FWD car I've driven. You guys can downplay the torque all you want because we "own an ST and we think it's a great car", but we're not addressing the problem if we refuse to admit it exists, as it does. How do we get rid of it, or at least dampen it?
 


OP
Hijinx

Hijinx

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Thread Starter #15
What I want to see is the steering wheel torque without having hands on the wheel. Standing start, full throttle, 1/4 mile take off, no hands. The ST would end up in the wall. It has the most torque steer of any FWD car I've driven. You guys can downplay the torque all you want because we "own an ST and we think it's a great car", but we're not addressing the problem if we refuse to admit it exists, as it does. How do we get rid of it, or at least dampen it?
Take a RWD or AWD car to the 1/4 and launch without hands on the wheel. It will also end up in the wall. I do not intend to dismiss your opinion, because it may well be true for you and others; however, it is simply not true for myself and others. We just have different experiences. If I've made it seem as though the torque steer doesn't exist at all, I apologize because that was not the intention. The intention here is to show that on the scale of my experience the FiST exhibits the least amount of torque steer. I think that point rings true for many others. Those like yourself have been a growing minority over the last year. So, while your opinion is not invalid, it is a relatively new and/or less expressed sentiment.

Edit - Have you watched the videos that are in the first post?
 


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#18
What I want to see is the steering wheel torque without having hands on the wheel. Standing start, full throttle, 1/4 mile take off, no hands. The ST would end up in the wall. It has the most torque steer of any FWD car I've driven. You guys can downplay the torque all you want because we "own an ST and we think it's a great car", but we're not addressing the problem if we refuse to admit it exists, as it does. How do we get rid of it, or at least dampen it?
You can't. Provided your alignment, dampers, tie rod ends, tires, and suspension bushings are within spec it is perfectly normal and cannot be reduced.

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#19
Take a RWD or AWD car to the 1/4 and launch without hands on the wheel. It will also end up in the wall. I do not intend to dismiss your opinion, because it may well be true for you and others; however, it is simply not true for myself and others. We just have different experiences. If I've made it seem as though the torque steer doesn't exist at all, I apologize because that was not the intention. The intention here is to show that on the scale of my experience the FiST exhibits the least amount of torque steer. I think that point rings true for many others. Those like yourself have been a growing minority over the last year. So, while your opinion is not invalid, it is a relatively new and/or less expressed sentiment.

Edit - Have you watched the videos that are in the first post?
Yes, I did watch the videos first. They got me thinking about the actual torque steer of a stock ST. When I said they would end up in the wall, I was referring to the first 100 ft. Yes, if you had an AWD or FWD car and did a 1/4 mile with no hands, there is little chance of NOT hitting a wall...but I bet you would be WAY farther down the track before that happened. I had always owned Ford Rangers ('86, '92, '04) and none of them had any issues staying straight off the line, barring wheel spin naturally, but we're talking about TS.
 


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#20
Speaking of MazdaSpeed torque steer.... (fun starts at about 40s)

[video=youtube;b1Ic09IsZCA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Ic09IsZCA[/video]

I gotta say my FiST doesn't have bad torque steer at all. I have been caught with the steering wheel pulling me a little when I'm coming out of a corner but it's nowhere near my old MS3. If there was anyone near me on the street a lot of times I didn't feel too comfortable doing a full pull. I haven't driven a big power Fiesta but I feel even comparing stock vs. stock the Ford does much better keeping you in control.
 




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