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America Can not Be Great Again Without the Fiesta ST

M-Sport fan

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#21
Haha! It's funny, I told my wife I would only trade the Fiesta ST for a Focus RS. Now with a Focus RS, I told her "Don't worry hun, I'll only trade this for an Escort RS Cosworth."
AGREED!!!

THAT ride, properly modded with all of the requisite Mountune, Graham Goode, and other parts, (and with the WRC spec FFD/XTrac drive train) is one of my ALL TIME "IF I won the lottery" cars, yup, even OVER all of the 'usual suspect' richy-rich, status inducing, elitist, exotic hypercars everyone else quotes in that scenario. [wink] [twothumb] [driving]

There is even an Ozzie member on here who owns one, and it's pic is his avatar, but I forgot his username as he has not posted in a while. :(

I even had the honor of working The Maine Forest Summer Rally in 1999, when Stig Blomqvist came over and drove the then deceased Carl Merrill's works prepped Escort Cossie RS/WRC as a tribute to him, and WON the whole thing, of course! [coolsmile]
 


BRGT350

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#22
After driving a Focus RS for a week, I am not sure I would be in a hurry to replace my ST with the RS. With the ST, you can go into boost without worry about letting the magic smoke out of the engine! The amount of RS's going boom is really scary.
 


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#23
Yeah, I had a bad feeling about the longevity of the RS. It sounded like they were asking a lot of both the engine and the transmission. I remember watching the videos from Ford Performance in the lead up to the launch (key points linked below) and they were talking about how they were struggling to hit their power targets and they had some engines blow or whatever. They never had a point in the series where they were like "well that is sorted now," and I always wondered if they did sort it or if they just accepted a high failure rate. Seems like it may have been the latter. It's also possible that the engine is just so strung out stock that people tuning and asking more of it is just pushing it outside its limits, but I haven't paid enough attention to know if that's the case.

https://youtu.be/DXCb0ONC4Z4?t=1m32s
https://youtu.be/KldDuwXV2Mk?t=35s
 


BRGT350

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#24
There are a lot of 2016 RS's both totally stock and modified that go boom. Typically it is head gasket and then head gasket again. A few have decided to put a rod through the block. No idea if those are modified or not. I am driving a modified 2017 RS right now and for the most part, it is rare I use over 6psi of boost on the street and rev over 4500 RPM. It is still in the break-in process, so I have been going easy on it. The first couple hundred miles never saw over 3,000 RPM. Even going easy on an RS, it is a very quick car and doesn't need much more than a few pounds of boost and 4500 RPM to be fast on the street. I think I haven't used more than 30% throttle in the past week. I wonder how many of the RS's that go boom are from street racing, questionable tunes, or generally doing stupid stuff. You can barely touch the limit of the car on the street, so I wonder what people are doing to blow these up. The RS is expensive new, parts are expensive, reliability is a worry, and I don't know how easy it will be to find a nice used on in the future. The Fiesta ST is so much cheaper to buy, modify, and operate. It is also more fun to drive on the street, On a race track, I am sure the RS is scary fast!
 


M-Sport fan

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#25
After driving a Focus RS for a week, I am not sure I would be in a hurry to replace my ST with the RS. With the ST, you can go into boost without worry about letting the magic smoke out of the engine! The amount of RS's going boom is really scary.
Thank you for making me feel better about not being financially able to 'step up' to an RS! [thumb] [:)]

I guess a limited slip, suspension, and maybe a big power upgrade (eventually, after power train warranty expiration) is in the future for this car to at least bring it a little closer to reliably matching the RS's outright performance. ;)
 


BRGT350

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#26
Racing an RS could be like the time I decided to try and race a Viper (on a race track) with my Focus ZX3. I did beat the Viper because they were so unreliable that it broke after the first lap. While I was way slower, at least I finished ;)

The ST feels faster on the street than the RS because you can't use all of the RS power and it is so quiet and smooth, the speed deceives you. The speedometer tells you the RS is vastly faster, but it just does it so quickly and quietly that you don't realize it. The ST feels fast because of the noise. You also have to work on making the ST go faster, which is a lot of fun. The exhaust sound of the RS and the quiet clutch are really nice, but the intake sound is just weird. I am putting together some videos shortly on my week of living with the RS.
 


M-Sport fan

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#27
^^^Yeah, I could not get much of a sense of the differences from the short, with a heavy salesman in the car, test drive I had in an RS with the black forged wheel setup and PSS (save for the VERY low grabbing/engaging factory clutch, which I promptly stalled on first release!).

Their (dealer personnel) presence just puts too much of a damper on REALLY ringing the car's neck to test it's true limits (which should NOT be done on public streets anyway). [:(]

With my all but destroyed hearing, I cannot for the life of me hear ANY intake noise (or turbo spool/BPV noise) over the exhaust, AT ALL on the RS OR on this car! [:(]
 


Last edited:

Waterfan

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#28
I actually had an '83 GTI, bought new, and yes, it was quite 'tossable' (quick ratio, DIRECT, and MANUAL steering!), but not quite up to the pure performance standard of this car, even though I installed Koni Sports, rear sway bar, and Yoko A008s on it. ;)
+2 thumbs up
 


Truth in Ruin

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#29
Racing an RS could be like the time I decided to try and race a Viper (on a race track) with my Focus ZX3. I did beat the Viper because they were so unreliable that it broke after the first lap. While I was way slower, at least I finished ;)

The ST feels faster on the street than the RS because you can't use all of the RS power and it is so quiet and smooth, the speed deceives you. The speedometer tells you the RS is vastly faster, but it just does it so quickly and quietly that you don't realize it. The ST feels fast because of the noise. You also have to work on making the ST go faster, which is a lot of fun. The exhaust sound of the RS and the quiet clutch are really nice, but the intake sound is just weird. I am putting together some videos shortly on my week of living with the RS.
Sounds good. I'm still waiting to see a video of your now stage 2 FiST ;)
 


BRGT350

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#30
Yeah, I need to get back to working on some ST videos too! My brother drove my ST this past weekend to see how the car goes in comparison to the modifications I had done on it 3 years ago. We then took the RS for a drive. We had hoped to do a RS vs ST comparison this fall, but the RS arrived very late and we won't have much time to get the filming done. I am out of town for most of October and then the RS goes into winter storage in November.

M-Sport fan, for some reason, I actually do better with the RS clutch from a dead stop than I do with the ST. I don't know why, but I am really smooth with the RS from a stop compared to the ST that I have been driving for years. The RS clutch is also so quiet! No creaks, moans, groans, clicks, or other strange noises. I guess I didn't realize how bad my ST clutch sounds, even with constant trips under the dash to lubricate everything that moves. The RS intake is just weird in terms of sound, and there is basically no turbo sound. The exhaust in Sport mode is the most delightful sound ever.

2019 is going to be a very sad year as the ST and RS products will be gone, the Fiesta will be gone, and the Focus will be from China. Ford Performance found a way to build some of the very best hot hatches on the planet and then decided to get out of the market and go back to focus on trucks. Europe will continue to get the very best cars and we will get giant trucks. Somehow, Ford went back to the very worst parts of the late 1990's. Truck centered product mix, piss poor cars, and their European operation has the best cars. At least in the late 1990's we had an affordable and nice sized Mustang and the Contour with a manual transmission.
 


jeff

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#31
Yeah, I need to get back to working on some ST videos too! My brother drove my ST this past weekend to see how the car goes in comparison to the modifications I had done on it 3 years ago. We then took the RS for a drive. We had hoped to do a RS vs ST comparison this fall, but the RS arrived very late and we won't have much time to get the filming done. I am out of town for most of October and then the RS goes into winter storage in November.

M-Sport fan, for some reason, I actually do better with the RS clutch from a dead stop than I do with the ST. I don't know why, but I am really smooth with the RS from a stop compared to the ST that I have been driving for years. The RS clutch is also so quiet! No creaks, moans, groans, clicks, or other strange noises. I guess I didn't realize how bad my ST clutch sounds, even with constant trips under the dash to lubricate everything that moves. The RS intake is just weird in terms of sound, and there is basically no turbo sound. The exhaust in Sport mode is the most delightful sound ever.

2019 is going to be a very sad year as the ST and RS products will be gone, the Fiesta will be gone, and the Focus will be from China. Ford Performance found a way to build some of the very best hot hatches on the planet and then decided to get out of the market and go back to focus on trucks. Europe will continue to get the very best cars and we will get giant trucks. Somehow, Ford went back to the very worst parts of the late 1990's. Truck centered product mix, piss poor cars, and their European operation has the best cars. At least in the late 1990's we had an affordable and nice sized Mustang and the Contour with a manual transmission.
Well said.

I'd love to see some more of your vids, they are balanced and intelligent in the midst of a thousand lesser productions cluttering the interwebs.

The Contour....I came across a super rare (not SVT but great still) V6 5 speed for $2500 back in the day, I want to say it was a 1998. The car was low miles and in immaculate condition and drivetrain was amazing but within 6 months of ownership I spend 2 grand fixing the air, starter, and other stuff....so I sold it before long. But the feel and driver's touch that the car had was super impressive.
 


BRGT350

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#32
Thanks Jeff!

My senior year in high school, my dad took delivery of a new, fully optioned 1998 Contour V6 manual and the seats hurt his back. I ended up driving it for a few months before he got rid of it. Being so new, I would park it in the teacher's lot since it didn't look like a student's car. :) It was a great car to drive! I had a 2.0L Mystique with a manual one winter and my brother and cousin both had black SVT Contours. Brilliant cars with lots of power, wonderful handling, fairly small for a sedan, and looked like the Mondeo's in Europe. The replacement for the Contour, the Fusion, just sucked in comparison. Lots of ugly chrome, terribly cheap plastic, boring styling, big, heavy, stupid name, the Sport came with an automatic, terribly numb steering feel, horrible interior layout, complex multi-function switch, and generally a terrible car. It was a classic Mark Field's car. Just horrid in every aspect. The only good thing about a Fusion is that you could melt it down and make something else out if. I finally got my dad out of his Fusion Sport and the replacement for it is the RS. The worse thing about the Contour was the requirement of a roll of cash suitable to choke a hippo to keep them going.
 


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#33
Oh my god, I had a 1998 V6 Contour too (I think it was called a Contour Sport or something). It was such a beater, but it was manual and had decent power. I think some old lady traded it in at the dealership where my dad worked at the time and he picked it up for cheap. Lasted a couple years before the brakes basically fell apart, the battery died, and they found a bunch of rust underneath it all in the span of a few weeks. That was enough of that. I scrapped it and just went without a car for a few years until I picked up the FiST.
 


BRGT350

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#34
When I was driving the Contour and Mystique, they were either new or a few years old. My brother's SVT Contour was used and he spent a fortune keeping it going. After the second motor, he sold it. The cars were outstanding new, but did not age well.
 


meFiSTo

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#35
It is a sad state of affairs for hatchback-loving enthusiasts in the U.S. Someday oil prices will again tilt higher. When the industry collectively observes shifts to fuel efficiency at some reasonable percentage, we'll see more small car options from Ford. Until then Japanese, Korean, and other manufacturers will fill the market with cars that will meet most needs. It could be a while before we see anything like the Fiesta ST from Ford I suspect--if ever in the U.S. again.

The high(ish)-performance subcompact segment is just not a robust demand segment and with all the lesser performing Ford hatchbacks suffering during the continued truck-buying boom, well, I doubt we'll see much for a few years. Seriously, once oil hits the inflection point and spikes for a prolonged period, electric cars will likely be in place to completely fill that space. Maybe not. But I've got my Fiesta and my RS and will be keeping them for a long time. Likely next small car for our empty-nested family is something like a Chevy Bolt. Before that, a more fuel-efficient and smaller AWD daily replacement for our 2000 Jeep GC Limited.

As for notes here regarding the RS's reliability, well, mine will not be seeing much if any extreme use (track days or autox). The Fiesta gives me plenty of smiles per second for that (when it's running right, heh) and I'd like to keep the RS as my daily driver and trip car (very accustomed to stiff suspensions in this house). We actually did a slight custom seat cushioning mod to the RS's passenger side front seat to make it less pinchy for my wife. She now LOVES riding in the car. That is a really good thing for future road trips.

[:(]
 


M-Sport fan

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#36
M-Sport fan, for some reason, I actually do better with the RS clutch from a dead stop than I do with the ST. I don't know why, but I am really smooth with the RS from a stop compared to the ST that I have been driving for years. The RS clutch is also so quiet! No creaks, moans, groans, clicks, or other strange noises. I guess I didn't realize how bad my ST clutch sounds, even with constant trips under the dash to lubricate everything that moves. The RS intake is just weird in terms of sound, and there is basically no turbo sound. The exhaust in Sport mode is the most delightful sound ever.

2019 is going to be a very sad year as the ST and RS products will be gone, the Fiesta will be gone, and the Focus will be from China. Ford Performance found a way to build some of the very best hot hatches on the planet and then decided to get out of the market and go back to focus on trucks. Europe will continue to get the very best cars and we will get giant trucks. Somehow, Ford went back to the very worst parts of the late 1990's. Truck centered product mix, piss poor cars, and their European operation has the best cars. At least in the late 1990's we had an affordable and nice sized Mustang and the Contour with a manual transmission.
It is quickly becoming that the GT350/350R are the ONLY Blue Oval products I even want/desire anymore (IF THEY even survive!).
Of course, they are also the ones I will probably NEVER be able to afford either. [:(] [mad]

The squawky/squeaky clutch pedal in the heat is the ONLY single 'malfunction' or complaint I have with this car so far after almost a year of ownership! [thumb]

Maybe the RS I test drove just had an exceptionally low grabbing engagement point, or does your dad's clutch also grab right off of the floor as well? [dunno]
 


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#37
You guys have me missing my 2000 SVT Contour. I got a little bit of the experience back when I bought a 2012 Ford Focus with the MTX-75. It was like an old friend. Unfortunately the manual in the FiST makes it feel like crap.
 


BRGT350

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#38
It is quickly becoming that the GT350/350R are the ONLY Blue Oval products I even want/desire anymore (IF THEY even survive!).
Of course, they are also the ones I will probably NEVER be able to afford either. [:(] [mad]

The squawky/squeaky clutch pedal in the heat is the ONLY single 'malfunction' or complaint I have with this car so far after almost a year of ownership! [thumb]

Maybe the RS I test drove just had an exceptionally low grabbing engagement point, or does your dad's clutch also grab right off of the floor as well? [dunno]
I finally have a quiet or at least a quieter clutch in the ST! I dropped off the RS back to my dad and went home and decided to see what I could do about the clutch. I spent an hour under the dash lubricating everything and I found that I when I push the clutch down there is a cylinder that opens up and exposes a spring. I sprayed the inside of the cylinder and all around the spring and this morning, the clutch is quiet! I got the click to go away this spring, but had a moaning sound that was just as bad.

The RS clutch does grab almost instantly off the floor.

ghodge, the MTX-75 was a wonderful gearbox. I had it in the Contours and my 2000 ZX3. I don't have any complaints with the ST transmission and I do find it much better with the FSWerks short throw shifter and Cobb RMM. The RS transmission is pretty good from the factory and doesn't need anything.
 


BRGT350

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#39
It is a sad state of affairs for hatchback-loving enthusiasts in the U.S. Someday oil prices will again tilt higher. When the industry collectively observes shifts to fuel efficiency at some reasonable percentage, we'll see more small car options from Ford. Until then Japanese, Korean, and other manufacturers will fill the market with cars that will meet most needs. It could be a while before we see anything like the Fiesta ST from Ford I suspect--if ever in the U.S. again.

The high(ish)-performance subcompact segment is just not a robust demand segment and with all the lesser performing Ford hatchbacks suffering during the continued truck-buying boom, well, I doubt we'll see much for a few years. Seriously, once oil hits the inflection point and spikes for a prolonged period, electric cars will likely be in place to completely fill that space. Maybe not. But I've got my Fiesta and my RS and will be keeping them for a long time. Likely next small car for our empty-nested family is something like a Chevy Bolt. Before that, a more fuel-efficient and smaller AWD daily replacement for our 2000 Jeep GC Limited.

As for notes here regarding the RS's reliability, well, mine will not be seeing much if any extreme use (track days or autox). The Fiesta gives me plenty of smiles per second for that (when it's running right, heh) and I'd like to keep the RS as my daily driver and trip car (very accustomed to stiff suspensions in this house). We actually did a slight custom seat cushioning mod to the RS's passenger side front seat to make it less pinchy for my wife. She now LOVES riding in the car. That is a really good thing for future road trips.

[:(]
Having an RS and ST is the best way to go! My wife rode in both my dad's RS with 18" wheels and the press RS with the factory 19" wheels and thought they both ride better than my Mustang or Fiesta. She hates rough riding cars and didn't think the RS was bad at all. She liked how quiet the RS was compared to my cars as well.

I do think you are right that we will never see another performance hatchback from Ford in the US. If the market for smaller cars ever comes back, they will be electric or hybrid. Having been in a Tesla Model S, there is performance with an electric car, but it isn't the same and nobody will make a performance electric hot hatch.
 


M-Sport fan

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#40
I finally have a quiet or at least a quieter clutch in the ST! I dropped off the RS back to my dad and went home and decided to see what I could do about the clutch. I spent an hour under the dash lubricating everything and I found that I when I push the clutch down there is a cylinder that opens up and exposes a spring. I sprayed the inside of the cylinder and all around the spring and this morning, the clutch is quiet! I got the click to go away this spring, but had a moaning sound that was just as bad.
The last time I went under the dash I put most of a small tube of Super Lube grease into that spring grommet/housing, to the point that it drops out onto the Weather Tech liner now.
STILL makes the groaning squawk when the interior temps are over 65*F. [mad]

I am going to have to put a whole roll of paper towels down and SOAK EVERYTHING in that whole area with some Wurth HHS2000 or such, and maybe that will help. [dunno]

Are we ABSOLUTELY SURE that the noise is not coming from INSIDE the clutch master cylinder due to a seal/diaphragm/piston over-expanding only when it heats up due to warmer ambient temps?? [???:)]
 




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