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America Can not Be Great Again Without the Fiesta ST

M-Sport fan

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#41
Having an RS and ST is the best way to go! My wife rode in both my dad's RS with 18" wheels and the press RS with the factory 19" wheels and thought they both ride better than my Mustang or Fiesta. She hates rough riding cars and didn't think the RS was bad at all. She liked how quiet the RS was compared to my cars as well.
That is one thing I noticed during the RS test drive; that it WAS much more 'refined', quieter overall (did not have a chance to play with the exhaust modes) and much less 'edgey', or 'raw' than the FiST, or at least my modded FiST.
The ride was "firm", but still very refined for lack of a better descriptive adjective.

Is THAT what everyone is talking about when they compare these two rides, and always seem to side with our model? [dunno]
 


meFiSTo

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#42
Shifters

LONG, rambling tangential ruminations about my prior shifters follow. You've been warned.

---------------------------------ruminations start---------------------------------

I have had many shifters from various manufacturers (more or less in chronological order from 1974 to now):

  • Alfa: 1965 Giulia Sprint GT (hand-me-down; my first car and first shifter)
  • Toyota: 1980 Tercel coupe, 1985 MR2
  • Datsun: 1976 Datsun 280Z, 1980 Datsun 810 wagon (both parental hand-me-downs)
  • Nissan: 1994 Altima SE, 1994 Pathfinder SE
  • BMW: 2000 528i
  • Ford: 2004 Focus SVT, 2014 Fiesta ST, 2016 Focus RS

Of those, my favorite shifter was my first. That could be the mist of nostalgia there blurring my memory since it's been more than 40 years; it's a little like the first time for any truly exhilarating experience...it sticks with you...hah. That car forever affected the way I shift. The Alfa was a hand-me-down that I got from my dad, although it was my mom that spent the few afternoons teaching me how to shift at the Santa Clara county fairgrounds parking lot back in the day.

Aside: Before that car, my dad owned a 1959 Alfa Giulietta coupe, a late-in-series MG-T, and a couple of Jaguars, one of which spontaneously caught on fire while sitting in front of Courtesy Chevrolet on Bascom Ave. in San Jose after being traded on the awesome first-year Malibu SS V8 hardtop coupe. That was quite a car, but I was a pup when we had that and my sister got it on hand-me-down in about 1970 or so.

Anyway, that car liked an initial stab at second (with the clutch depressed) before shifting to first. Apparently that "stopped the synchros" according to my dad. I retain that move to this day. It seems to make shifting to first from a standstill a little smoother. Could just be my imagination. That "105" era gearbox also had a number of anomalies that resulted in a "crunchy" second gear over time (I never experienced that, but the car was gone by 1976). It was such a fun car to putter around it. But let's face it: It was not fast, but it was oh so fun.

All those cars listed had pretty decent shifters. The 810 and 280Z had the most notchy and stiff shifters, perhaps the Pathfinder had the longest throw and loosest feel, but...Pathfinder. It was a truck. My slickest shifter was probably the 528i. That and the Pathfinder are probably the only cars I regret parting with when I did. The RS probably feels closest to that shifter, although the clutch is much more specific with regard to release point.

My SVT Focus and the Fiesta ST had/have what I consider the most "vague" sense of gear slot location during "aggressive" driving. This is leading me to now emphasize more deliberate shifts (since I popped the shifter linkage off on both those cars at the track). Having said that, those are the only cars I've ever "tracked." Next year, the RS is likely to do a SCCA TNiA half day just to get a sense of the car. I want to do Portland in the RS since that's a VERY fast track and will likely be better suited to the RS vs. Pacific Raceways and The Ridge (for me).
 


Last edited:
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#43
I do think you are right that we will never see another performance hatchback from Ford in the US. If the market for smaller cars ever comes back, they will be electric or hybrid. Having been in a Tesla Model S, there is performance with an electric car, but it isn't the same and nobody will make a performance electric hot hatch.
I am surprised the FiST has sold as well as it has TBH. On paper, I don't really understand the market for it besides people exactly like me (millennial, urban, middle or upper-middle class, no kids, car enthusiast). To my mind, everyone else in the market for something performance oriented would seem to be better served by something larger, or with more performance, or both. But the diversity of this forum alone (to say nothing of the larger owner base) is a testament to the fact that the car has much broader appeal than you'd expect. It's just more fun than it has any right to be on paper, but unfortunately that's not enough to make it profitable in America these days.
 


Plainrt

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#44
I am surprised the FiST has sold as well as it has TBH. On paper, I don't really understand the market for it besides people exactly like me (millennial, urban, middle or upper-middle class, no kids, car enthusiast). To my mind, everyone else in the market for something performance oriented would seem to be better served by something larger, or with more performance, or both. But the diversity of this forum alone (to say nothing of the larger owner base) is a testament to the fact that the car has much broader appeal than you'd expect. It's just more fun than it has any right to be on paper, but unfortunately that's not enough to make it profitable in America these days.


On paper it looks great to me......... cheap fun car big enough to haul kids around and other stuff. When you compare it to a focus it really isn't that much smaller in rear seat area etc. America just full of people that think they need a big truck to cruise to work etc.
 


M-Sport fan

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#45
America just full of people that think they need a big truck to cruise to work etc.
...or a tank sized, or even intermediate sized SUV

What is it about them, the fact that they sit SOOOO high up above everything else (except all of the other ones on the road), or do they all just love that beautiful wallowing and tippy handling?

(OR is it just being a lemming 'following the crowd'? [dunno])

I try to get rides with a LOWER center of gravity, NOT as high as they can build one!!!
 


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#46
My boss justifies his large vehicles (he dailys an F-250 and she drives an Expedition) partially because both he and his wife are taller than the average human (6'8" and 6'0" respectively; despite the fact that he got right into my Fiesta easily). But the other reason he gives is that in the event of a crash it is safer. My argument against that is that in a smaller more nimble car you can likely avoid the crash altogether if you handle it right. Smaller cars turn quicker and stop faster. I've seen some pretty bad small car crashes where people walked away with little to no harm and vice versa have seen large vehicle crashes with critical injuries. Don't look for a car to save you, but rather see what you can do to improve your driving skills to avoid an accident in the first place and know that if it's your time to go, it's your time to go regardless of what kind of vehicle you drive.
 


M-Sport fan

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#47
My boss justifies his large vehicles (he dailys an F-250 and she drives an Expedition) partially because both he and his wife are taller than the average human (6'8" and 6'0" respectively; despite the fact that he got right into my Fiesta easily). But the other reason he gives is that in the event of a crash it is safer. My argument against that is that in a smaller more nimble car you can likely avoid the crash altogether if you handle it right. Smaller cars turn quicker and stop faster. I've seen some pretty bad small car crashes where people walked away with little to no harm and vice versa have seen large vehicle crashes with critical injuries. Don't look for a car to save you, but rather see what you can do to improve your driving skills to avoid an accident in the first place and know that if it's your time to go, it's your time to go regardless of what kind of vehicle you drive.
^^^[twothumb] [twothumb]
 


jayrod1980

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#48
Great article... I can solve the overheating problems the author mentioned. A good tune (tells the fan to turn on sooner) and a Mountune radiator. Done. Even with more heat generated from some light mods and not yet completing my oil cooler kit, I didn't see coolant temps go above 205 the entire Vegas summer, even in 115 scorching heat. Right now it briefly hits 193 when warming up and then I can't crack 187F. I'm still doing the oil cooler, but if this baby had a bit bigger and better designed radiator stock, I think we would all be fine.

I love my ST... I'm freakishly obsessive over it, even with the crap reach to the touch screen, the coarse feel of it running through revs (is that the tranny and can it be fixed with different fluid?), and the plastic fantastic interior. It's the first and only car that I've literally done every bit of modding and maintenance to. I'm only pissed that my work is so far away with no ability to shorten the drive to preserve the mileage on the car. I got it in Nov 2015 and it's already pushing 33K on the odometer from my 30 mile highway commute. I have no intention of ever selling it and my wife and all of my little hellions love riding and driving it (in the wife's case... I don't let her drive it often).
 


jayrod1980

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#49
Also, with all the money I've put into mods, new tires, protection film, etc., I could have already purchased an RS. I'm probably at $10K already in aftermarket on this thing, and I don't regret any of it. I even forked over $500 insurance deductible and filed an insurance claim on an uninsured idiot who hit me in a parking lot just to fix a small scratch on the bumper. The only blemish my car has are a scuff on the interior door plastic from one of the body shop guys, a tiny chip on the side of the passenger side skirt, and some chips on the wheels that are impossible to prevent with driving on gravel-strewn roads at 80MPH every day.
 


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#50
My boss justifies his large vehicles (he dailys an F-250 and she drives an Expedition) partially because both he and his wife are taller than the average human (6'8" and 6'0" respectively; despite the fact that he got right into my Fiesta easily). But the other reason he gives is that in the event of a crash it is safer. My argument against that is that in a smaller more nimble car you can likely avoid the crash altogether if you handle it right. Smaller cars turn quicker and stop faster. I've seen some pretty bad small car crashes where people walked away with little to no harm and vice versa have seen large vehicle crashes with critical injuries. Don't look for a car to save you, but rather see what you can do to improve your driving skills to avoid an accident in the first place and know that if it's your time to go, it's your time to go regardless of what kind of vehicle you drive.
I just had an Expedition as a rental (requested a compact and that's what they gave me LOL). Good god I don't know how people drive them every day. I felt like I was driving a semi. I half expected kids in the car next to me to look over and make the "blast the horn" arm motion. I thought being higher up is supposed to give you more visibility, but I felt like the thing was one giant blind spot. Every lane change made me nervous that someone (probably in a Fiesta) had snuck up on me and I was about to run them off the road. No thanks.

And with respect to crashes, you are probably safer in something huge like that (despite higher rollover risk), but you are putting everyone else on the road at greater risk. Driving a big SUV is basically saying, "If I'm going to be in an accident, I want to win."
 


DaveG99

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#51
I think small cars dont do well in the states because our fuel prices are cheap compared to Europe. They pay 2-3 times what we pay in gas. And when a car doesnt sell well the manufacturer will stop selling it. I wish americans would appreciate the fiesta ST more. It truly is an amazing special vehicle. Im glad i own one and i will probably own it for a long time. I daily drive a new chevy silverado provided by my company so my FIST lives in my garage with only weekend duty and the occasional week night drive. I treat my FIST like its a high end supercar.
 


Waterfan

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#52
Racing an RS could be like the time I decided to try and race a Viper (on a race track) with my Focus ZX3. I did beat the Viper because they were so unreliable that it broke after the first lap. While I was way slower, at least I finished ;)

The ST feels faster on the street than the RS because you can't use all of the RS power and it is so quiet and smooth, the speed deceives you. The speedometer tells you the RS is vastly faster, but it just does it so quickly and quietly that you don't realize it. The ST feels fast because of the noise. You also have to work on making the ST go faster, which is a lot of fun. The exhaust sound of the RS and the quiet clutch are really nice, but the intake sound is just weird. I am putting together some videos shortly on my week of living with the RS.
These are the same driving experiences themes that helped me make the "FiST instead of Mk7 GTI" decision. FiST is fun at posted limits (and beyond). GTI is too refined and you have to break the limits to get the same subjective sense "fun".
 


M-Sport fan

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#53
I love my ST... I'm freakishly obsessive over it, even with the crap reach to the touch screen, the coarse feel of it running through revs (is that the tranny and can it be fixed with different fluid?), and the plastic fantastic interior.
Totally agree! [thumb]

Except for I don't feel any "coarseness" at all (I do have the Gear 300 in the transaxle though), if anything, it is too 'smooth', even with the cp-e RMM.

Also, I may be the ONLY one on here (or in the whole world for that matter [dunno]) who does not think that our interior is bad at all, and who does not mind it one bit.

The ONLY drawbacks to this car for me (besides the small radiator for open trackers, and that it is FWD vs. AWD {which would also bring with it an independent rear suspension}, which so many disagree with, and some of their points are correct) are the lack of a 3 door version here in NA, and the unavailability of a factory installed, mechanical, limited slip diff. ;)
 


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#54
Also, I may be the ONLY one on here (or in the whole world for that matter [dunno]) who does not think that our interior is bad at all, and who does not mind it one bit.
No you are not alone. It actually feels and looks much better than most of the cars that I have owned in the past and has held up quite well. I am not sure what people are using for comparison when they say the interior is "cheap," but I can say that from my experience it is on par and in some cases, better than what I have had.
 


M-Sport fan

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#55
No you are not alone. It actually feels and looks much better than most of the cars that I have owned in the past and has held up quite well. I am not sure what people are using for comparison when they say the interior is "cheap," but I can say that from my experience it is on par and in some cases, better than what I have had.
Yes, I have looked into the interiors of most of the (within and even above OUR car's price point) rides which they consider "vastly, leaps and bounds, superior", and do NOT agree with them, until one gets up into the BIG BUCK exotics/hypercars, maybe.

It is ALL VERY subjective anyway, as there is no actual way to measure this aspect of 'performance'. ;)
 


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#56
For the overheating thing, daily driving I never get any overheating. I've only had it overheat on me twice. Once when the radiator fan rely died (it was a recall on early 2016 MY) and I was sitting in slow moving traffic, and the second was on Saturday when I was driving up a mountain stuck behind some slowpokes so the engine was constantly running at higher RPM and the rad wasn't getting enough airflow because of the slow speed. Once I pulled over and let it cool I didn't get stuck behind someone again and while it did go above normal on the temp gauge it didn't peg the gauge and ding at me. I don't track my car, but I've done plenty of driving hard on mountain roads with no problems. The ST Octane academy cars never showed problems with temperature when I was out there for that and it was in July so it was pretty hot.

As for the interior quality, I don't understand the gripe people have. It's Ford's cheapest car. The quality isn't high end but it's not that bad for an economy car. Brand new, no rattles or anything. I'm at almost 32K now and it has developed a few rattles on certain road textures, but I also have a Cobb RMM which didn't help. The interior is far and away better than my 2003 Ford ZX2, which was the cheapest car Ford made in 2003. The problem there I think is that people are expecting a better interior than the base Fiesta because they are paying for the ST. That's not how it works. You're paying for all the ST bits (engine, transmission, Recaros if you got them, front/rear bumper, side skirts, wheels, spoiler, etc) which include a few interior changes, but it's replaced with the same quality part as the base Fiesta in a different color generally. Replacing the entire interior would have out-priced the Fiesta ST from what most people would want to pay for it. They already complain about the price as it is. And I think a lot of people going for the Fiesta ST are people that have changed from a BMW, Audi, or some other higher end car that is going to have a better interior and the sticker price to prove it. Like I said, I came from another of Ford's cheapest cars, so I went up in quality and I'm happy. I haven't experienced the fine luxury interior to compare it to.
 


BRGT350

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#57
I just had an Expedition as a rental (requested a compact and that's what they gave me LOL). Good god I don't know how people drive them every day. I felt like I was driving a semi. I half expected kids in the car next to me to look over and make the "blast the horn" arm motion. I thought being higher up is supposed to give you more visibility, but I felt like the thing was one giant blind spot. Every lane change made me nervous that someone (probably in a Fiesta) had snuck up on me and I was about to run them off the road. No thanks.

And with respect to crashes, you are probably safer in something huge like that (despite higher rollover risk), but you are putting everyone else on the road at greater risk. Driving a big SUV is basically saying, "If I'm going to be in an accident, I want to win."
I had an Edge for a week as a rental and it felt like I was driving a house! And that is not a big SUV! I just hated it. My brother was dead set on getting his wife an Edge to haul their toddler around with, and I was finally able to talk them into an Escape. My wife has an Escape and it is great, but it is a Focus underneath and has the Focus ST engine, so that helps. I have yet to run into a case where I need to move something and the Escape can't do it.
 


Waterfan

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#58
No you are not alone. It actually feels and looks much better than most of the cars that I have owned in the past and has held up quite well. I am not sure what people are using for comparison when they say the interior is "cheap," but I can say that from my experience it is on par and in some cases, better than what I have had.
the hard plastic on the upper doors and coarse cloth on the arm rests "ruins" and otherwise appropriate interior for the segment
 


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#59
the hard plastic on the upper doors and coarse cloth on the arm rests "ruins" and otherwise appropriate interior for the segment
The hard plastic on doors is nothing new and can be found on just about any mass produced car these days, just some will take that panel and cover it with leather or vinyl, but still most do a textured plastic. It is the texture, appearance, and overall quality of the plastic itself that I look at and compare. I hate when manufactures try and mimic a high end appearance, such as leather, by molding it on a plastic door. The faux leather door and dash that is nothing more than hard plastic. This was found on my focus zx3. However, looking at the ST, the A-pillar plastic has a unique look and feel. The door panels, although a hard plastic, IMO is textured well and does not try and "fool" you into thinking it is something it is not. The same can be said on the rest of the trim of the car. My ONLY complaint are the door handles on the arm rest. To me, that is the only part that I wish was a little more substantial. It just feels too thin, like one good yank and it will break away from the panel.

For me, I prefer longevity and quality. I am not fooled by half ass attempts to make something "luxury" only to have it last just as long as the cheap stuff. I have had cars that have had leather on door panels that peel away, or arm rests that crack or have a huge divot from constant use and leather seats cracking at the seams. I guess my point is, while luxury and high end is nice, things just are NOT built like they used to be. If anyone were to look 10 years down the road your interior will probably look the same with no cracking, peeling, fading, etc. as it did from day one. This is of course assuming regular care and cleaning is done. While the same can be said with really good high-end interior you have to baby it a little more than ours.
 




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