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The Fiesta is dead

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Location
Kansas City
#21
Most of us had to wait several months for our cars to be built anyway. Because dealers didn't have what we wanted, if they had any Fiesta at all.
Just finding one for a demonstration drive was nearly impossible. Let alone one with the desired features or color. Any one of the 100 most frequent participants on this forum probably has more knowledge of the Fiesta product than the top 500 Ford sales people in the entire continental U.S. i am dead serious.
I'll wait 6 months for mine because i wont be home to take delivery until then but local dealer stock was abysmal so I ordered. Had one dealer who wouldnt budge off 24.5k on a 17 model and then tried telling me it would sell fast. I said no way am I shelling out that much and if its been sitting on the lot for a year then it aint selling that fast.
 


OP
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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #22
I waited 12 years for a FWD, turbocharged, blue hatchback developed in Europe with rally heritage. That was the wait between the Mk1 Focus RS and my ST.

Scotman2 is 100% right that most of us know way more about our cars than anyone at the dealers. My 11 year old nephew has more automotive knowledge than 75% of the salespeople at dealerships. Dealers don't know or care enough to really want to sell product like the Fiesta ST, Focus ST, or Focus RS. In those cases, the buyer knows exactly what they want and it is pointless to talk them into something else. Salespeople want to sell quick and sell what is on the lot, so niche products are a pain for them. They have to order it, deal with 6 months of a buyer asking if it has arrived yet, then deal with questions about how the car works, and then hope that the buyer still wants the car when it arrives. They would rather sell them a F-150 on the lot and go back to their Sports Illustrated. Growing up at a dealership gives me some unique perspectives on car sales.
 


XanRules

Active member
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Portland
#23
Wait until another financial crisis or oil shortage and people will be begging for small cars again. My wife has a Yaris and we easily fit our two kids and groceries in a subcompact. I love small cars because of the fuel economy.
Don't you know anything? The economy will always be strong, everything will just get cheaper, we'll all start to make more money, and gas prices will stay low forever! You fool!
 


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Location
San Diego
#24
The gentlemen I bought mine from this week said Ford were dropping not only the Fiesta as an entire model line, but also the ENTIRE Focus line as well. Instead they are bringing back the Ranger and Bronco, and the Fusion is the smallest “car” they are going to sell. The Eco Sport is a joke...

It is absolutely ridiculous driving along the freeways here in SoCal and seeing the 75% of the traffic are SUV’s pulling barely 18-20 mpg on the freeway, with only ONE PERSON in them, each. The other 20% are hybrid cars, and only about 5% of the vehicles on the road area small, conventional, high mpg commuters...
 


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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #25
The gentlemen I bought mine from this week said Ford were dropping not only the Fiesta as an entire model line, but also the ENTIRE Focus line as well. Instead they are bringing back the Ranger and Bronco, and the Fusion is the smallest “car” they are going to sell. The Eco Sport is a joke...

It is absolutely ridiculous driving along the freeways here in SoCal and seeing the 75% of the traffic are SUV’s pulling barely 18-20 mpg on the freeway, with only ONE PERSON in them, each. The other 20% are hybrid cars, and only about 5% of the vehicles on the road area small, conventional, high mpg commuters...
While that hasn't been fully confirmed, I believe that is correct. I think the Fusion is on the chopping block or will be taken upmarket along with the Mustang. Ford said only sedans and coupes that can be sold in low numbers at a high price will be kept. In some ways, I think Ford is pricing themselves out of the market. If I have to go from a $25k Fiesta ST to a $50k Ford something, I am strongly going to think about something else. You can quickly start competing against cars that have far more perceived value at those upper price points. Since I pay cash for my cars, there is no way I am going to drop that kind of money on a new Ford. I will move to the secondary market or to a brand that provides value at my price point. I also think the SUV/crossover market will become so saturated that anyone that offers something different will gain market share. I do think sedans and coupes will still be a tough sell as the ease of use of a hatchback is a big selling point for crossovers, which means killing all hatchbacks is a bad idea. People that want to downsize from a SUV or Crossover don't have any options.

I do agree the EcoSport sucks. I liked them until I saw one in person and saw the rear hatch. Nope, I am not going to buy a car that I need to open the garage door to unload groceries when it is 5 degrees outside. I don't have that problem today with any of my 3 hatchbacks. After being at a few different autoshows with the EcoSport present, it gets almost no attention. The Mustang, Focus RS, Fiesta ST, F-150, and Explorer are always popular. I do think some Fiesta owners will move towards the EcoSport, but not any ST owners.
 


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Location
San Diego
#26
To be fair, there's very little separating the Yaris from the Fiesta and the Sonic and the XA and the Rio and the Accent, etc... in the eyes of the average consumer. Hell, the average consumer probably couldn't tell the difference between most of them. Yeah, the Fiesta won some awards and it has nimble handling, but considering the market there's nothing really special about it. Up to and including the SES, the Fiesta by and large is an appliance that had some initial hype and found a small selection of enthusiasts who find value in it. They're a good quality cheap car, which works great when they turn a profit...but they don't really do that very well, and a lot of salesmen consider them to be a waste of their time. Let's be realistic...most of the people buying standard model Fiestas aren't buying them because they're the cool car to buy. They're cheap and available...and in the cheap and available car market, the Fiesta has a LOT of competition.

Ford has been losing compact/sub-compact customers to Asian manufacturers in droves for the past decade and a half. Especially now that emissions restrictions are being rolled back, the incentive for American manufacturers to make subcompacts that compete with companies who are already winning the fight is diminishing rapidly. Point being, it stands to reason that Ford would drop the Fiesta. It sucks we'll lose out on future Fiesta ST's, because it's a car that really has something special to it...but outside of the Fiesta ST enthusiast community there aren't a lot of people who will notice a hole in the market.

Could they attempt to re-animate the car? Sure. They could try to recreate the hype from a decade or so ago, but that would require an expensive complete redesign of the car that would probably end up going the exact same way the 2008 Focus was received. So...dropping it makes sense. It's not the last time we see the Fiesta in the US, I'm confident about that, but it will take a massive jump in oil prices, limitations on imported compacts, and dramatically increase in price to come back any time soon...so basically I'm guessing we'll see it re-introduced within the next 2-3 model years. :p

That all being said, as it bums me out to see the ST go away with it, I'm finding myself closer to the "Good riddance" mentality than "Goodbye my love!" It was getting stale, and I look forward to the next iteration of standard model Fiestas (whenever they get brought back) FAR more than I'll miss the current. Until then, I can't think of a better car on the market for me than the FiST I have now.
 


Dpro

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#27
To be fair, there's very little separating the Yaris from the Fiesta and the Sonic and the XA and the Rio and the Accent, etc... in the eyes of the average consumer. Hell, the average consumer probably couldn't tell the difference between most of them. Yeah, the Fiesta won some awards and it has nimble handling, but considering the market there's nothing really special about it. Up to and including the SES, the Fiesta by and large is an appliance that had some initial hype and found a small selection of enthusiasts who find value in it. They're a good quality cheap car, which works great when they turn a profit...but they don't really do that very well, and a lot of salesmen consider them to be a waste of their time. Let's be realistic...most of the people buying standard model Fiestas aren't buying them because they're the cool car to buy. They're cheap and available...and in the cheap and available car market, the Fiesta has a LOT of competition.

Ford has been losing compact/sub-compact customers to Asian manufacturers in droves for the past decade and a half. Especially now that emissions restrictions are being rolled back, the incentive for American manufacturers to make subcompacts that compete with companies who are already winning the fight is diminishing rapidly. Point being, it stands to reason that Ford would drop the Fiesta. It sucks we'll lose out on future Fiesta ST's, because it's a car that really has something special to it...but outside of the Fiesta ST enthusiast community there aren't a lot of people who will notice a hole in the market.

Could they attempt to re-animate the car? Sure. They could try to recreate the hype from a decade or so ago, but that would require an expensive complete redesign of the car that would probably end up going the exact same way the 2008 Focus was received. So...dropping it makes sense. It's not the last time we see the Fiesta in the US, I'm confident about that, but it will take a massive jump in oil prices, limitations on imported compacts, and dramatically increase in price to come back any time soon...so basically I'm guessing we'll see it re-introduced within the next 2-3 model years. :p

That all being said, as it bums me out to see the ST go away with it, I'm finding myself closer to the "Good riddance" mentality than "Goodbye my love!" It was getting stale, and I look forward to the next iteration of standard model Fiestas (whenever they get brought back) FAR more than I'll miss the current. Until then, I can't think of a better car on the market for me than the FiST I have now.
While it may be true that the Japanese competition has a leg up. Fact is all sub compact amd compact sales in the U.S. are falling very significantly. Mazda dropped the 2 for this very reason. Toyota axed the whole Scion. Line only converting over to the Toyota namplate two cars. The ixa which is actually the Mazda 2 and the FRS aka GT86/BRZ which they could not kill without agreement from Suburu. Both cars are jointly produced. Notice how Mazda chose not to sell it themselves anymore? Its not like Toyota is selling tons of GT86’s or Suburu is selling tons of BRZ’s.
Nissan sells a ton of Sentra’s only because they offer them dirt cheap with good trim. GM is killing the Sonic. FCA is killing the Dart and 200.
Its not just Ford here. We hape pointed this out before the American market is high on Automatic transmissions , Trucks and SUV’s.
The automakers make a killing on those vehicles here. Is Ford being short sighted? I tend to think so. Are they putting all their eggs into one proverbial basket , quite possibly. Automakers in the U.S. are gung ho on EV and Autonmous. The forrmer being not as idea or answer some think it is for numerous reasons they are sticking there heads in the sand over. The latter is far from ready for Prime Time but they are still inisting running headlong into it. WAtch for many more Autonomous vehicle crashes in the next few years as these guys push tech before its ready.
All of this spells the end of a subcompact and compact manual transmission ICE vehicles being sold in the U.S. outside of one or two at most manufacturers, hello Mazda! Yup Mazda is one and they probably did the smart thing by parting ways with Ford as the current Ford seems to on a path that is one sighted.
 


Intuit

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#30
Follow the money, at any cost. [confuse]
Once customer loyalty becomes overrated, so does brand loyalty.
 


M-Sport fan

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#31
I waited 12 years for a FWD, turbocharged, blue hatchback developed in Europe with rally heritage. That was the wait between the Mk1 Focus RS and my ST.

Scotman2 is 100% right that most of us know way more about our cars than anyone at the dealers. My 11 year old nephew has more automotive knowledge than 75% of the salespeople at dealerships. Dealers don't know or care enough to really want to sell product like the Fiesta ST, Focus ST, or Focus RS. In those cases, the buyer knows exactly what they want and it is pointless to talk them into something else. Salespeople want to sell quick and sell what is on the lot, so niche products are a pain for them. They have to order it, deal with 6 months of a buyer asking if it has arrived yet, then deal with questions about how the car works, and then hope that the buyer still wants the car when it arrives. They would rather sell them a F-150 on the lot and go back to their Sports Illustrated. Growing up at a dealership gives me some unique perspectives on car sales.
You summed it up EXPLICITLY!! [twothumb]

I get the sense that most of them would rather be selling refrigerators, or washing machines, for all of the (abject LACK of ANY) knowledge and/or enthusiasm they have about the actual product they are selling. [mad]
 


OP
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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #32
According to the reports on the new "global" Focus, the Focus will be one of two cars that will be available in the US. I have seen that reported as one of two sedans and one of two cars. The Fusion would be the other sedan, but may change completely from the type of car it is today. The Mustang will survive, but is a coupe and not part of the 2 sedan lineup. No word on what trim models of the Focus will be coming and it will be imported from China. China does get the ST and ST-line. It also looks like only a 1.0 and 1.5 with 8-speed automatic will be offered, but no confirmation on the US version. The good news is that new Focus is lighter and wider than the MkIII, so it should handle great!
 


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San Diego
#33
Yeah, word is though that the Focus will not be offered as a hatchback, just a sedan. This most likely means no ST version in the US at all.
 


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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #34
Yeah, word is though that the Focus will not be offered as a hatchback, just a sedan. This most likely means no ST version in the US at all.
While nothing points to that being the case, I fully believe it to be accurate. The only thing that suggests we could get a ST is Hackett saying he wants upscale/upmarket low volume niche models that have higher margins. The ST would fit that. Ford is getting lick-n-stick happy with the ST badges these days, but I would imagine any US version would just be a different grille, wheels, and ST stickers all over the place. Not much different than the horrid 2009-2011 Focus ST. It was only a ST in the sense it said ST on the back. It wasn't a performance car, just a badge.
 


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Edmonton
#35
While nothing points to that being the case, I fully believe it to be accurate. The only thing that suggests we could get a ST is Hackett saying he wants upscale/upmarket low volume niche models that have higher margins. The ST would fit that. Ford is getting lick-n-stick happy with the ST badges these days, but I would imagine any US version would just be a different grille, wheels, and ST stickers all over the place. Not much different than the horrid 2009-2011 Focus ST. It was only a ST in the sense it said ST on the back. It wasn't a performance car, just a badge.
And yet, I’d sell both kidneys for an RS Wagon.. I’m thinking I am not part of Ford’s target market any more. Oh well.


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Location
Edmonton
#36
And yet, I’d sell both kidneys for an RS Wagon.. I’m thinking I am not part of Ford’s target market any more. Oh well.

Edit: I guess Hackett sees Kia’s path and said “Ford needs to be Kia”.. ugh..

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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #37
Yeah, none of us here are Ford's demographic anymore. Wealthy SUV and Truck buyers are who they want.

Ford is obsessed with being FCA with Jeep and Ram. Jeep has had an incredible sales run lately and FCA was the first to say that cars are dead and started killing them off. FCA has their SRT, Hellcat, and Demon products and Ford is sticking the ST badge on everything and making a Hellcat beating GT500. Somehow, Ford is determined to be the car company that everybody thought was going to die in 2009.
 


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#38
Thats funny... All i see are gas proces increasing.. So why do these idiots buy bro dozers and crappy Cuvs?
 


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Thread Starter #40
Because everyone forgot about 2008
All of the analysis says it won't be like that again. The delta between CUV/SUV mileage and car mileage isn't nearly as great as it was a decade ago and there will be far more hybrids and electrics coming to market within the next few years. The change will be to hybrid or electric CUV's or SUV's before downsizing to a small car. As millenials, which are the largest cohort of buyers, begin to have careers, kids, and live in suburbs, they need the size of a SUV/CUV. They won't give up the size, so they will just move to an alternate fuel over a downsized car. They also put less emphasis on ownership and will just use Uber or another service before going back to a car. There are other alternatives available today or will be available shortly that indicate there won't be a repeat of 2008. The market will become horribly saturated with SUV's and CUV's, which means some will need to fail or companies will need to bring out cars as an alternative. Even then, I think the sedan is dead for sure. Too many people have activities that make the sedan or even a coupe, a tough sell. A hatchback makes the most sense and it isn't much of a stretch to go from a hatchback B or C segment car to a B or C segment CUV. Having an Escape in the garage, we use that for all sorts of activities that aren't possible with a small hatchback and surely not with a sedan. Biking, kayaking, golfing, flying RC planes, home improvement, hauling car parts, and vacations are all done using a crossover. We don't have kids and can't imagine not having the Escape. Our friends with kids won't consider having anything other than a SUV or CUV. Drive past any school as kids are being dropped off or picked up and notice there are no cars. If gas prices spike, which I doubt they will due to supply and demand, CUV and SUV buyers will just move to a hybrid or electric version of what they already have. As electrics and hybrids come out, the demand on gas starts to decline and since supply is more constant, the price will drop. Gas companies know that a massive spike and sustained high price will erode their market share to alternate power. It would be a bad move for that to happen, knowing it only hurts them faster.
 


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