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The Fiesta is dead

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Sauce land
#41
I'm betting we still get the ST and RS eventually, along with the standard Focus. If they're going to sell the standard car, it makes financial sense to offer it in the ST/RS form as well. Ford is trying to move these cars up market so expect them to have more standard features and sell for more money. I'll keep my Fist for now, I'm excited to see what the Veloster N looks like in person. If not, maybe a lightly used RS.
 


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Kansas City
#42
All of the analysis says it won't be like that again. The delta between CUV/SUV mileage and car mileage isn't nearly as great as it was a decade ago and there will be far more hybrids and electrics coming to market within the next few years. The change will be to hybrid or electric CUV's or SUV's before downsizing to a small car. As millenials, which are the largest cohort of buyers, begin to have careers, kids, and live in suburbs, they need the size of a SUV/CUV. They won't give up the size, so they will just move to an alternate fuel over a downsized car. They also put less emphasis on ownership and will just use Uber or another service before going back to a car. There are other alternatives available today or will be available shortly that indicate there won't be a repeat of 2008. The market will become horribly saturated with SUV's and CUV's, which means some will need to fail or companies will need to bring out cars as an alternative. Even then, I think the sedan is dead for sure. Too many people have activities that make the sedan or even a coupe, a tough sell. A hatchback makes the most sense and it isn't much of a stretch to go from a hatchback B or C segment car to a B or C segment CUV. Having an Escape in the garage, we use that for all sorts of activities that aren't possible with a small hatchback and surely not with a sedan. Biking, kayaking, golfing, flying RC planes, home improvement, hauling car parts, and vacations are all done using a crossover. We don't have kids and can't imagine not having the Escape. Our friends with kids won't consider having anything other than a SUV or CUV. Drive past any school as kids are being dropped off or picked up and notice there are no cars. If gas prices spike, which I doubt they will due to supply and demand, CUV and SUV buyers will just move to a hybrid or electric version of what they already have. As electrics and hybrids come out, the demand on gas starts to decline and since supply is more constant, the price will drop. Gas companies know that a massive spike and sustained high price will erode their market share to alternate power. It would be a bad move for that to happen, knowing it only hurts them faster.
I know I am not the norm but I have a family with 2 kids and we do everything in a subcompact hatch. My wife has a 2015 Yaris that is the main family car. I just got rid of a sonic and my current line up is an 06 Audi A4, 16 H-D Sportster, and soon to be an 18 FiST. Ive owned trucks and SUV's but absolutly love the Compact/Subcompact catagory.
 


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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #43
I know I am not the norm but I have a family with 2 kids and we do everything in a subcompact hatch. My wife has a 2015 Yaris that is the main family car. I just got rid of a sonic and my current line up is an 06 Audi A4, 16 H-D Sportster, and soon to be an 18 FiST. Ive owned trucks and SUV's but absolutly love the Compact/Subcompact catagory.
No doubt you are in the minority for buyers.

My neighborhood has a pretty even split between younger families, Gen-X's, and baby boomers who are starting to move out and downsize. Almost all of the hatchbacks (Fiesta ST, Golf R, Mini Cooper) are driven by male Gen-X owners while their wives' all own a SUV/CUV, the few sedans (BMW, Infinity, Lexus, Lincoln) are driven by baby boomers and tend to have another luxury smaller SUV in the garage as well, and anyone with kids on the newer side of the hood are all dominated by trucks, SUV's, CUV's, and minivans. The families with kids old enough to drive, almost all of them are driving CUV's and SUV's. I see this repeated at the grocery stores, health clubs, and parking lots around town.
 


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Kansas City
#44
No doubt you are in the minority for buyers.

My neighborhood has a pretty even split between younger families, Gen-X's, and baby boomers who are starting to move out and downsize. Almost all of the hatchbacks (Fiesta ST, Golf R, Mini Cooper) are driven by male Gen-X owners while their wives' all own a SUV/CUV, the few sedans (BMW, Infinity, Lexus, Lincoln) are driven by baby boomers and tend to have another luxury smaller SUV in the garage as well, and anyone with kids on the newer side of the hood are all dominated by trucks, SUV's, CUV's, and minivans. The families with kids old enough to drive, almost all of them are driving CUV's and SUV's. I see this repeated at the grocery stores, health clubs, and parking lots around town.
I am either Gen x or millenial depending on whose defention you use. I was born in 83. My wife is Asian and grew up in her home country so she perfers small cars. So not really the typical american family
 


Ford ST

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#45
Hyundai and Kia here I come. It doesn't seem like either one of them have given up on cars at all. There's always going to be some type of car offered from someone. Some of y'all just Doom and Gloom too much. You really think BMW is going to get rid of that 3 Series hell no. Number one selling vehicle in my state is a Honda Accord statistically.

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Dpro

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#46
Hyundai and Kia here I come. It doesn't seem like either one of them have given up on cars at all. There's always going to be some type of car offered from someone. Some of y'all just Doom and Gloom too much. You really think BMW is going to get rid of that 3 Series hell no. Number one selling vehicle in my state is a Honda Accord statistically.

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Lol this is why Honda has stopped production of the Accord for 11 days. as reported right here on this forum. Lol ,. No doom and gloom just harsh cold reality. Small cars and passenger sedans are dieing in the Unites States.
 


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Ford ST

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#47
Lol this is why they have production of the Accord for several months as reported right here on this forum. Lol , no doom and gloom just harsh cold reality. Small cars and passenger sedans are dieing in the Unites States.
I said in my state, did I say the whole damn country? I said my damn state.

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Dpro

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#48
I said in my state, did I say the whole damn country? I said my damn state.

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Relax man, this is a discusiion that while sad is light hearted. Hence the lol. Though I have to point out your state is not a large state population wise or size wise. Its just a discussion though . Chill out, go for a drive knowing you own one of the greats when it comes to Hot Hatches.
 


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Location
Grass Lake
#49
I'm betting we still get the ST and RS eventually, along with the standard Focus. If they're going to sell the standard car, it makes financial sense to offer it in the ST/RS form as well. Ford is trying to move these cars up market so expect them to have more standard features and sell for more money. I'll keep my Fist for now, I'm excited to see what the Veloster N looks like in person. If not, maybe a lightly used RS.
If the Fiesta ST proved to not make sense. Why would any version other than an appearance package and a couple of badges be considered viable? Hell, i bet the next Focus ST, if it happens, won't even have a manual transmission! One powertrain for everyone. They are probably working on a way to make a leather option with even less actual leather!
It just seems like the most cynical notions about non truck/suv products is the closest to whats occurring.
It's interesting to note that the new Honda Accord has manual transmission versions of both engines offered. Either the memo has not made it to japan yet, or Honda still believes there is a market for three pedal cars at realistic prices.
 


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Dublin, OH
#50
Lol this is why Honda has stopped production of the Accord for several months as reported right here on this forum.
The post said that Accord production has been stopped for 11 days, considerably shorter than several months.
 


Ford ST

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#53
Relax man, this is a discusiion that while sad is light hearted. Hence the lol. Though I have to point out your state is not a large state population wise or size wise. Its just a discussion though . Chill out, go for a drive knowing you own one of the greats when it comes to Hot Hatches.
Yeah I got you. I wish that was the truth about NC, unfortunately we are the 10th most populated State now and the population keeps on climbing sucks.

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M-Sport fan

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#55
Hyundai and Kia here I come.
I'd rather just rebuild or refurbish (while improving the performance with mods) THIS CAR as needed than go to one of those nameplates (or 'duh/the Nippon Giant).

Or buy a well cared for RS if the above is impossible due to a total, or rusting out, as previously mentioned.
But then again, I am ancient enough that this could well be the last vehicle I ever own, so I may not have to worry about the autonomic SHIT on the way, or EV/hybrid SUVs/CUVs. ;)
 


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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #56
I've NEVER seen one of these, and did not know they even existed.
The Focus ST Facebook page is full of owners of those ST badged contraptions thinking they are similar to the SVT Focus or the current Focus ST. Those cars were just horrid. I remember when the 2009 Focus launched and Mark Fields claimed it was far better than the 2000 Focus. It wasn't, the car was poorly styled, full of cheap plastic, and very watered down compared to the original car. I had one for 3 months as a rental car and I hated it. My ZX3 and SVT Focus were like a BMW in comparison.
 


Ford ST

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#57
The Focus ST Facebook page is full of owners of those ST badged contraptions thinking they are similar to the SVT Focus or the current Focus ST. Those cars were just horrid. I remember when the 2009 Focus launched and Mark Fields claimed it was far better than the 2000 Focus. It wasn't, the car was poorly styled, full of cheap plastic, and very watered down compared to the original car. I had one for 3 months as a rental car and I hated it. My ZX3 and SVT Focus were like a BMW in comparison.
Hey I have a 2010 Ford Focus SE, and my
Brother has a 2005 ZX3. I think they are both good.

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Grass Lake
#58
I've NEVER seen one of these, and did not know they even existed.
I concur with BRgt350. That Era of ST was really bad. I spent some time in an even earlier Focus ST, the 2005 2.3 version. It was more powerful than a Zetec. But a totally unsporty four door sedan with a different front bumper and a spoiler on the rear decklid.
I can only guess that these lame ass ST foci were the result of an agreement between Ford and Mazda to not create models that would compete with each other
Thus Mazda gets a nice 323 and Ford got a 2.3 liter focus sedan. It had to be something like that. As a side note, my brother smashed the shit outta that ST. It did crash well
 


OP
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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #59
Hey I have a 2010 Ford Focus SE, and my
Brother has a 2005 ZX3. I think they are both good.

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2005 is when the Focus took the first downturn when assembly was consolidated from Hermosillo and Wayne to make room for the Fusion. The next downturn came in 2009 with the Mk1.5 refresh. Quality has already started to go down hill in 2005 compared to the 2000-2004 cars. Between my brother, my dad, and I, we had a 2000 ZX3, 2001 ZX3 (brother and dad both had them at different times), 2002 SVT, 2003 SVT EAP (my dad and I owned the same car and he still owns it), and a 2003 Zetec sedan (modified with SVT suspension, airbox, SVT EAP wheels, and a bunch of other leftover SVT and Focus parts). We knew those cars backwards and forwards. The later models weren't even close to the same car.
 


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BRGT350

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Thread Starter #60
I concur with BRgt350. That Era of ST was really bad. I spent some time in an even earlier Focus ST, the 2005 2.3 version. It was more powerful than a Zetec. But a totally unsporty four door sedan with a different front bumper and a spoiler on the rear decklid.
I can only guess that these lame ass ST foci were the result of an agreement between Ford and Mazda to not create models that would compete with each other
Thus Mazda gets a nice 323 and Ford got a 2.3 liter focus sedan. It had to be something like that. As a side note, my brother smashed the shit outta that ST. It did crash well
The ultimate version of those cars was either the ZX3 2.3L manual or the wagon with the 2.3L manual. Cosworth had a number of parts for that engine that really made it come to life. The ZX3 and wagon with the 2.3L and manual were crazy hard to find. I know of only a few, with one being the CosWagon SEMA car.

I heard a rumor from a few sources that indicates we will get a ST version of the Focus. Hopefully, that isn't a 1.0L automatic with a ST badge and honeycomb grille.
 


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