Battery Maintenance

[koozy]

Unless the battery is the source of an internal short, it will not effect anything once the engine is running and the alternator takes over electrical load. Otherwise, the battery does exactly two things while driving: takes a charge, and in the event of a sudden and large draw, it will provide a temporary source of makeup voltage. Unless you have heavily modified your audio system or run a shit load of off roading lights, there will be no draw on a car that is large enough to really put the battery in a state of discharge with the engine running.

The battery is only there for starting and accessory power.


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Try disconnecting the battery on a modern car like the Fiesta, let us know how far you get without engine operating issues.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Try disconnecting the battery on a modern car like the Fiesta, let us know how far you get without engine operating issues.

That’s creating an open on the system, you’re retarded if you think that’s proof that the battery does anything on a running engine with a properly functioning charging system.


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[koozy]

That’s creating an open on the system, you’re retarded if you think that’s proof that the battery does anything on a running engine with a properly functioning charging system.


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Look in the mirror. I’m done. Not worth my time. Service manual covers it.

 

[Fiestig]

That’s creating an open on the system, you’re retarded if you think that’s proof that the battery does anything on a running engine with a properly functioning charging system.

No need to pee on anyones parade, It's just a discussion about batteries. Point, counterpoint should be sufficient I would think. We are all fans of the same car trying to help each other. No need to lower ourselves to the level of a Honda forum (My nephew has mentioned how cutthroat and malicious those forums are.) I quite enjoy the camaraderie here.

 

[Intuit]

Activating and deactivating equipment in a vehicle that creates large instantaneous loads, creates brief power deficits and spikes. (Oscilloscopes are better at displaying this.) Individual modules do/should have their own voltage regulators, coils, resistors, capacitors and such, to help smooth out these very brief variations in power. In addition to supplying make up voltage for a malfunctioning charging system, a battery also has some ability to absorb excess voltage... basically a capacitor, but with a *very* slow reaction time. Removing the battery or having a shorted one, reportedly could lead to potentially damaging voltage spikes in the system. Alternators aren't designed to run full field for extended periods. Bad battery (and/or grounding back to the battery) may burn up the alternator. Ever listen to the "Under The Hood" podcast? I recall a few times where they've mentioned that a bad battery created some weird behaviors in specific vehicles. There are likely other underlying issues that allow for the condition, (such as a module with bad grounding/capacitors/circuit design,) but it has been known to occur.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Activating and deactivating equipment in a vehicle that creates large instantaneous loads, creates brief power deficits and spikes. (Oscilloscopes are better at displaying this.) Individual modules do/should have their own voltage regulators, coils, resistors, capacitors and such, to help smooth out these very brief variations in power. In addition to supplying make up voltage for a malfunctioning charging system, a battery also has some ability to absorb excess voltage... basically a capacitor, but with a *very* slow reaction time. Removing the battery or having a shorted one, reportedly could lead to potentially damaging voltage spikes in the system. Alternators aren't designed to run full field for extended periods. Bad battery (and/or grounding back to the battery) may burn up the alternator. Ever listen to the "Under The Hood" podcast? I recall a few times where they've mentioned that a bad battery created some weird behaviors in specific vehicles. There are likely other underlying issues that allow for the condition, (such as a module with bad grounding/capacitors/circuit design,) but it has been known to occur.

I’m not here to shit in anyone’s stew, but I don’t like misiformation going around on forums. There was a guy who talked about the “performance benefits” behind an undersized alternator pulley and I called him out as well.

Saying a battery performs like a *very* slow capacitor is a bad comparison. A capacitor is designed to provide makeup voltage in instants. The whole concept of a capacitor is to mitigate extreme short term instances of low voltage. They’re rated in separate units from batteries because they fulfill different roles. Capacitors are designed to supply high draw over an infinitesimally small period while batteries supply system voltage and longer term and variable draws.


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[Woods247]

I’m not here to shit in anyone’s stew, but I don’t like misiformation going around on forums. There was a guy who talked about the “performance benefits” behind an undersized alternator pulley and I called him out as well.

Saying a battery performs like a *very* slow capacitor is a bad comparison. A capacitor is designed to provide makeup voltage in instants. The whole concept of a capacitor is to mitigate extreme short term instances of low voltage. They’re rated in separate units from batteries because they fulfill different roles. Capacitors are designed to supply high draw over an infinitesimally small period while batteries supply system voltage and longer term and variable draws.


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Hey man. You’re wrong when it comes to the Fiesta. When my track battery is low, the car cranks fine but the radio, Bluetooth and a host of other shit didn’t work. Bail out of this thread.

 

[Intuit]

Having recently driven on a battery that wouldn't crank, my electronics functioned normally. But after the jump-start, I also turned off everything I could during the ~20 minute drive to the parts store... radio, 600W RMS amp, HVAC, lights. I didn't operate any windows. We know running on a bad battery is *really* hard on an alternator. That's why I swapped in the parking lot as opposed to driving 15 more minutes home, where I could clean out the battery tray. As indicated prior, I suspect a healthy battery can compensate for, hide even, other issues with a system.

There are always exceptions, (like routinely covering a routine and purposeful liar, every evening for weeks under the guises covid briefings,) but in general I don't believe in censoring. I believe in *talking* things out to a mutual understanding. We all (potentially) learn and improve through exchanges like this.

I’m not here to shit in anyone’s stew, but I don’t like misiformation going around on forums. There was a guy who talked about the “performance benefits” behind an undersized alternator pulley and I called him out as well.

I haven't read the entire thread, but as far as I've seen, we're merely discussing the benefits of running on a healthy battery, versus severely-degraded/failing/bad one. Haven't read anything about modifying the vehicle or charging system. If that's what you're after, I recommend you quote their specific passages and respond only to that.

Saying a battery performs like a *very* slow capacitor is a bad comparison. A capacitor is designed to provide makeup voltage in instants. The whole concept of a capacitor is to mitigate extreme short term instances of low voltage. They’re rated in separate units from batteries because they fulfill different roles. Capacitors are designed to supply high draw over an infinitesimally small period while batteries supply system voltage and longer term and variable draws.

You're kind of avoiding the point here. Batteries (similar to capacitors) have to be able to absorb power in order to emit it. In short words, they have limited ability to absorb excess output from a malfunctioning and normally-functioning charging system. Absent of that ability, there would be no such thing as an "overcharge".
https://itstillruns.com/happens-overcharge-car-battery-5137116.html
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-a-capacitor-if-overcharged

Capacitors have many uses. It's impact both depends on capacitor and circuit design. See here for additional information...
https://answersdrive.com/what-is-the-difference-between-dc-and-ac-capacitors-1357167
https://sciencing.com/list-uses-capacitors-8059446.html
It is certainly true that, as long as there is predictable resistance on the other side of the cap, its charge rate also becomes predictable; circuit design.
http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Electricity and magnetism/Electrostatics/text/Capacitor_charge_and_discharge/index.html
Replace your incadescent bulbs with LED yet? Ever plug in an electronic device, such as a computer AC adapter (nothing attached) and see the light briefly dim? But the AC adapter isn't even plugged into the computer yet. All it was doing was charging its own capacitors and field coils. This is demonstrative of an ability to generate/accept current. Modules are generally well protected from voltage spikes. It's the current that is deadly. Fuses however, tend to react slowly... sometimes too slowly to save some of the more sensitive (and expensive) devices behind them.


Bottom line, it's non-trivial that we maintain a healthy battery.

.

 

[boyracer]

thanks koozy, you got me looking at my 6 year old battery in the st. clear sight glass, electrolyte below plates and white gunk on them. its age not cycles or lack of a look see, lol,. only 27k on car.
…. btw car batteries also act as a giant filter to the unclean current produced by the alternator. the rectifiers and capacitors in the regulator or some computer contolled outputs do not do all that great of a job.

 

[koozy]

Re: battery terminal corrosion aka white gunk.

This gunk is a catalyst to poor battery performance and corrosion to the surrounding area, the negative terminal in my case. It’s best to take care of it asap. I’ve been managing this for several years now on the FiST with the flooded OE battery. Along with routine cleaning, I’ve tried various terminal protectants and in my case I’ve found that sticky silicon brake caliper grease works best in keeping the gunk from mushrooming out of control, if at all.

 

[boyracer]

solved my lack of battery maintenance problem. new napa legend battery, lol. small town store who gives me work too.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Hey man. You’re wrong when it comes to the Fiesta. When my track battery is low, the car cranks fine but the radio, Bluetooth and a host of other shit didn’t work. Bail out of this thread.

Do me a favor, when your engine is running, go ahead and test battery voltage with your multimeter.

You should see around 14v +/- about a half a volt. So tell me, how does your battery suddenly gain almost 2 volts? It doesn’t, that’s the voltage your alternator puts out. Once the engine is spinning, your alternator runs the show. Now if you have a shorted cell (commonly referred to as a dead battery) in the battery that will cause issues just like ANY short would. The thing about car batteries, is that they generally last a decent amount of time and are relatively cheap to replace. That said, I’ve seen batteries shit the bed after a month, and I’ve seen non-maintained batteries go for a decade without a hitch. I’ve also seen well maintained batteries die after a few years. The whole thread seems to suggest that you should maintain your battery to help extend its life. All I’m trying to make people aware of is that, because of the environment that car batteries operate in, life span is highly variable and generally not dependent on maintenance. It COULD help the battery last longer, but with the temperatures these batteries will see and the vibrations they get, acting like maintenance will make a discernible difference in life span, is a stetch.

Like I’ve been saying, batteries are there for starting the engine and to supply makeup voltage. The alternator is the centerpiece. Y’all can continue arguing, I’m just making sure people have access to facts related to the electrical system, rather than demanding people leave the thread for disagreeing with me.


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[Woods247]

Do me a favor, when your engine is running, go ahead and test battery voltage with your multimeter.

You should see around 14v +/- about a half a volt. So tell me, how does your battery suddenly gain almost 2 volts? It doesn’t, that’s the voltage your alternator puts out. Once the engine is spinning, your alternator runs the show. Now if you have a shorted cell (commonly referred to as a dead battery) in the battery that will cause issues just like ANY short would. The thing about car batteries, is that they generally last a decent amount of time and are relatively cheap to replace. That said, I’ve seen batteries shit the bed after a month, and I’ve seen non-maintained batteries go for a decade without a hitch. I’ve also seen well maintained batteries die after a few years. The whole thread seems to suggest that you should maintain your battery to help extend its life. All I’m trying to make people aware of is that, because of the environment that car batteries operate in, life span is highly variable and generally not dependent on maintenance. It COULD help the battery last longer, but with the temperatures these batteries will see and the vibrations they get, acting like maintenance will make a discernible difference in life span, is a stetch.

Like I’ve been saying, batteries are there for starting the engine and to supply makeup voltage. The alternator is the centerpiece. Y’all can continue arguing, I’m just making sure people have access to facts related to the electrical system, rather than demanding people leave the thread for disagreeing with me.


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We must be talking about different things. I’m familiar with how alternators and batteries work but thanks for enlightening those that don’t. Either way, I’ll continue keeping my battery in good condition so I can continue using all of the electronics I enjoy.

 

[koozy]

 

[Sekred]

View attachment 30580

Is that for cleaning the terminals or topping up the cells?

 

[koozy]

Is that for cleaning the terminals or topping up the cells?

Cleaning

 

[jeff]

Re: battery terminal corrosion aka white gunk.

This gunk is a catalyst to poor battery performance and corrosion to the surrounding area, the negative terminal in my case. It’s best to take care of it asap. I’ve been managing this for several years now on the FiST with the flooded OE battery. Along with routine cleaning, I’ve tried various terminal protectants and in my case I’ve found that sticky silicon brake caliper grease works best in keeping the gunk from mushrooming out of control, if at all.

Koozy thanks for this thread. I noticed some white clouding happening on my negative terminal yesterday, cleaned it up. Going to check the cells later today. Didn’t know about the green bubble dot. Good stuff.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Cleaning

So that stuff really works?

THANKS for the tip!

 

[Ford ST]

Soda works great. Pepsi Coke whatever pick your poison.

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[DoomsdayMelody]

Soda works great. Pepsi Coke whatever pick your poison.

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Use either in the diet variety to prevent stickiness.


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