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Portland area: Brand new AP on FB Marketplace for $380...

XanRules

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#21
OK, now what's the tune situation? Just trying the Cobb OTS stuff to start with?
The AP came with a Stratified 91 Oct tune for a car with just a panel filter. That's damn close to my mod list, so that's what I'm runnin'. I may A/B it with the OTS 93 octane tune but Speedboosted said it was SIGNIFICANTLY quicker with the Stratified. Once I have a few more engine mods I'm gonna have Adam/Tune+ tune it for me.

Regarding OARs, when I booted the car up the OAR was +0.64 (as I understand it it was left over from the last car) and every time I've driven it since it's inched closer to -1.00 (I think i'm at 0.14 right now) - how long does that take to learn? Seems unlikely that I'd be having any issues on a 91 oct tune running 92 (93 equivalent, of course ;))
 


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danbfree

danbfree

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Thread Starter #22
The AP came with a Stratified 91 Oct tune for a car with just a panel filter. That's damn close to my mod list, so that's what I'm runnin'. I may A/B it with the OTS 93 octane tune but Speedboosted said it was SIGNIFICANTLY quicker with the Stratified. Once I have a few more engine mods I'm gonna have Adam/Tune+ tune it for me.

Regarding OARs, when I booted the car up the OAR was +0.64 (as I understand it it was left over from the last car) and every time I've driven it since it's inched closer to -1.00 (I think i'm at 0.14 right now) - how long does that take to learn? Seems unlikely that I'd be having any issues on a 91 oct tune running 92 (93 equivalent, of course ;))
Wow, +0.64 is crazy, someone was running WAY too poor of fuel, they were probably running regular with the 91 tune, lol... But WOT runs will move it to to where you want faster for sure, normally -0.50 is the starting point, and -1.00 is perfect, again, you'll see it improve every WOT, the more the longer you can rev it out as it wants to add timing, the more it will move towards -1.00, let me know how it goes! But also, Stratified tune changed significantly starting 5/12/18 to version 4.0, I'm sure you probably have 3.1 so it's definitely not the same as a 4.0, the new one is WORLDS better... and hell yeah, a Stratified 91 will blow away a Cobb OTS Stage 2 OTS, it's a full 5 psi more with Stratified.
 


XanRules

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#23
Wow, +0.64 is crazy, someone was running WAY too poor of fuel, they were probably running regular with the 91 tune, lol... But WOT runs will move it to to where you want faster for sure, normally -0.50 is the starting point, and -1.00 is perfect, again, you'll see it improve every WOT, the more the longer you can rev it out as it wants to add timing, the more it will move towards -1/00, let me know how it goes!
Yeah, I keep running out of highway because of the construction but every time I hit WOT it ticks down a bit. Not too worried because there's no hesitation, no surging, no timing or ignition correction, smooth idle, and AFR is steady.
 


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danbfree

danbfree

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Thread Starter #24
Yeah, I keep running out of highway because of the construction but every time I hit WOT it ticks down a bit. Not too worried because there's no hesitation, no surging, no timing or ignition correction, smooth idle, and AFR is steady.
Sounds good man, I'm sure you've noticed a big difference already!
 


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#25
The AP came with a Stratified 91 Oct tune for a car with just a panel filter. That's damn close to my mod list, so that's what I'm runnin'. I may A/B it with the OTS 93 octane tune but Speedboosted said it was SIGNIFICANTLY quicker with the Stratified. Once I have a few more engine mods I'm gonna have Adam/Tune+ tune it for me.

Regarding OARs, when I booted the car up the OAR was +0.64 (as I understand it it was left over from the last car) and every time I've driven it since it's inched closer to -1.00 (I think i'm at 0.14 right now) - how long does that take to learn? Seems unlikely that I'd be having any issues on a 91 oct tune running 92 (93 equivalent, of course ;))
It was at .60 and that is what it comes to every time you upload a new file. When I was using it, it took about a full day of driving to get down to -1.00 and then never moved. Always had 1.0-2.0 positive cylinder corrections as well. He has V3.0, which is the same as V3.1 minus FFS.
 


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#26
normally -0.50 is the starting point
It has always been 0.60 for my car. Each tune, no matter what I uploaded (Mountune, Stratified, OTS), it always started at 0.60 and moved to -1.0 within a day or so. Always thought it was strange but never cared because of how quickly it learned. Figured it would always start at 0.00 lol
 


XanRules

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#27
Interesting! After a few WOT pulls this evening I'm at -0.21 and it ticks down a little more with every pull. Still have no cylinder correction.
 


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danbfree

danbfree

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Thread Starter #28
It was at .60 and that is what it comes to every time you upload a new file. When I was using it, it took about a full day of driving to get down to -1.00 and then never moved. Always had 1.0-2.0 positive cylinder corrections as well. He has V3.0, which is the same as V3.1 minus FFS.
Weird, .60 is definitely not normal that I know of, everyone else including myself have always seen -.50 to start with, maybe they changed that in some versionof the tune or AP firmware version...but either way that's good to know since people may have that .60 to start with, that it will eventually land at -1.00

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 


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danbfree

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Thread Starter #29
It has always been 0.60 for my car. Each tune, no matter what I uploaded (Mountune, Stratified, OTS), it always started at 0.60 and moved to -1.0 within a day or so. Always thought it was strange but never cared because of how quickly it learned. Figured it would always start at 0.00 lol
Are you on AP firmware 5.04?

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 


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#31
So I would assume with the COBB setup you would still want to modify the airbox to let in cold air rather than from the stock location? Is that correct? Based on a ModBargains blog I read this helps significantly but they didn't give numbers.

The options I currently see are cutting a hole in the front panel, cutting a hole in the bottom of the airbox, replacing the airbox with a ST200 or mountune airbox, or cut and install a VT bigmouth.
I performed all of those cuts on my stock box with my COBB setup. I drilled a 3" hole in the bottom, another on the front panel, and another on the panel facing the LF wheel. I also wrapped the rest of the box with some adhesive-backed header wrap type stuff. Worked out pretty well. I also added the fresh air duct where a VT would install. I also don't have any numbers, but I think it may have been a bit more efficient than my current setup, just judging by my own monitoring of the AP
 


anticon

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#32
I performed all of those cuts on my stock box with my COBB setup. I drilled a 3" hole in the bottom, another on the front panel, and another on the panel facing the LF wheel. I also wrapped the rest of the box with some adhesive-backed header wrap type stuff. Worked out pretty well. I also added the fresh air duct where a VT would install. I also don't have any numbers, but I think it may have been a bit more efficient than my current setup, just judging by my own monitoring of the AP

[MENTION=4809]LaserWhisperer[/MENTION], thanks for that input. I just started another thread in the engine upgrades section to see what people thought about the benefits of isolated fresh air intake.
 


XanRules

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#33
Talked to Jason at Dizzy tuning, the only folks who've done any dyno datalogging/info on air intakes as far as I know. Said that all other things being equal, for whatever reason, the crossover pipe/induction hose combo makes more power than the Cobb intake. So, I'll be doing that with a big mouth and will datalog as I add parts. I will say that with the ST200 airbox and a stock intercooler, even in traffic, I haven't noticed charge air temps higher than 10* over ambient.
 


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danbfree

danbfree

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Thread Starter #34
[MENTION=4809]LaserWhisperer[/MENTION], thanks for that input. I just started another thread in the engine upgrades section to see what people thought about the benefits of isolated fresh air intake.
[MENTION=9002]anticon[/MENTION] You tried to post this earlier but was deleted somehow and found this very interesting:

Last night I pulled the four screws on the top panel and tried to get a good look at exactly where the air would come from if you are just stock _without_ a hole cut. I tried to pull the panel off completely, but it is somehow attached to the front bumper and I wasn't willing to pull hard enough for fear of breaking it (that is a very typical outcome for me.) Anyway, I found that the area under the panel is pretty well sealed up and is fairly large, it runs a little over the length of the grill and is probably 3 inches deep and 4 inches wide on average across it. It looked like there were a few places that air could get in; mainly from each end under the headlights/above the crash bar where it just opens up completely, it could also get in from where the hood latch comes through, and the only other spot I saw was it looked like there was a small gap in places on the front edge that would allow air in from the near the grill. All of these locations were in front of the radiator,
although the biggest holes on the ends under the headlights still opened up under the hood. Either way most of the air would come from fairly indirect locations, and most likely from hot air under the hood. I don't disagree that cutting a hole in the shroud would allow more fresh air, but without sealing off the other areas you are still getting some hot air in, mainly from the ends under the headlights. I would assume even with the ST200 airbox you still are getting air from here along with the fresh air hole in the bottom. This makes me think that if you want true fresh air without any chance of under hood engine air you would want something like the VelossaTech Big Mouth with a sealed stock box.

Well, at least it sounds like with my stock airbox that cutting a hole where the Big Mouth would go certainly helps with cooler intake air, and again i'm assuming that whole shroud there is mainly for severe deep water issues, I don't believe it's there for anything structurally.. i may look at trying to seal off the sides more but with a hole for fresh air now right in front of the snorkel I'm sure it's at least a good improvement for now...
 


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danbfree

danbfree

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Thread Starter #35
Talked to Jason at Dizzy tuning, the only folks who've done any dyno datalogging/info on air intakes as far as I know. Said that all other things being equal, for whatever reason, the crossover pipe/induction hose combo makes more power than the Cobb intake. So, I'll be doing that with a big mouth and will datalog as I add parts. I will say that with the ST200 airbox and a stock intercooler, even in traffic, I haven't noticed charge air temps higher than 10* over ambient.
Here is the direct thread with intake test results... http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/16698-Dizzy-Tuning-Intake-Tests

Note that this was on a FBO car and gains were mainly added torque but 2 setups did get about 5 HP... again, that is with FBO's AND E30 tuned, I wonder what they would be without an E30 tune and so many bolt on's, probably not much... For guys trying to find every bit of power they can and have modified suspension and brakes to handle all the torque and power they can, this is good info to know... personally this tells that focusing on at least getting cold air in will help with what I want...
 


anticon

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#36
[MENTION=9002]anticon[/MENTION] You tried to post this earlier but was deleted somehow and found this very interesting:

Last night I pulled the four screws on the top panel and tried to get a good look at exactly where the air would come from if you are just stock _without_ a hole cut. I tried to pull the panel off completely, but it is somehow attached to the front bumper and I wasn't willing to pull hard enough for fear of breaking it (that is a very typical outcome for me.) Anyway, I found that the area under the panel is pretty well sealed up and is fairly large, it runs a little over the length of the grill and is probably 3 inches deep and 4 inches wide on average across it. It looked like there were a few places that air could get in; mainly from each end under the headlights/above the crash bar where it just opens up completely, it could also get in from where the hood latch comes through, and the only other spot I saw was it looked like there was a small gap in places on the front edge that would allow air in from the near the grill. All of these locations were in front of the radiator,
although the biggest holes on the ends under the headlights still opened up under the hood. Either way most of the air would come from fairly indirect locations, and most likely from hot air under the hood. I don't disagree that cutting a hole in the shroud would allow more fresh air, but without sealing off the other areas you are still getting some hot air in, mainly from the ends under the headlights. I would assume even with the ST200 airbox you still are getting air from here along with the fresh air hole in the bottom. This makes me think that if you want true fresh air without any chance of under hood engine air you would want something like the VelossaTech Big Mouth with a sealed stock box.

Well, at least it sounds like with my stock airbox that cutting a hole where the Big Mouth would go certainly helps with cooler intake air, and again i'm assuming that whole shroud there is mainly for severe deep water issues, I don't believe it's there for anything structurally.. i may look at trying to seal off the sides more but with a hole for fresh air now right in front of the snorkel I'm sure it's at least a good improvement for now...
Yeah, sorry about that. I decided to move it to the engine upgrades section of the forum instead.
 


XanRules

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#37
Yeah, he did mention that it was a negligible amount of power but - horsepower is horsepower, especially if both setups cost a similar amount.
 


anticon

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#38
Talked to Jason at Dizzy tuning, the only folks who've done any dyno datalogging/info on air intakes as far as I know. Said that all other things being equal, for whatever reason, the crossover pipe/induction hose combo makes more power than the Cobb intake. So, I'll be doing that with a big mouth and will datalog as I add parts. I will say that with the ST200 airbox and a stock intercooler, even in traffic, I haven't noticed charge air temps higher than 10* over ambient.
I can't wait to see your results. Want to reinstall your stock airbox first for a baseline? [:D] Also it would seem like adding the big mouth to the ST200 airbox would be just for redundancy, or do you expect to get more airflow with both installed? Also, I suppose in the very rare case that one is plugged you still have the other one operating.
 


XanRules

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#39
I can't wait to see your results. Want to reinstall your stock airbox first for a baseline? [:D] Also it would seem like adding the big mouth to the ST200 airbox would be just for redundancy, or do you expect to get more airflow with both installed? Also, I suppose in the very rare case that one is plugged you still have the other one operating.
Haha, I actually sold the stock airbox the day I installed the ST200!

The ST200 + big mouth would be a bit redundant but I'm under the impression that it can't hurt. I've also seen a LOT of people asking if it helps or makes a difference but nobody's ever done any tests or data. I'm not shelling out the money for a new big mouth but I've seen used ones for as little as $50.
 


anticon

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#40
Haha, I actually sold the stock airbox the day I installed the ST200!

The ST200 + big mouth would be a bit redundant but I'm under the impression that it can't hurt. I've also seen a LOT of people asking if it helps or makes a difference but nobody's ever done any tests or data. I'm not shelling out the money for a new big mouth but I've seen used ones for as little as $50.
I am still researching my question about the benefits of sourcing the air from ambient and I found this discussion in the link below. It sounds like if you have the ST200 airbox with a hole on the bottom then the added pressure from the ram air big mouth at speed is just going to get pushed out the ST200 hole. Maybe not as much though if you have the ST200 airbox inlet routed to the front of the car which would be at the same pressure as the big mouth.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/7210-Fiesta-ST-Ram-Air-BIG-MOUTH-Intake-Snorkel-by-Velossa-Tech-Engineering-R-amp-D-thread!/page15
 




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