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Washington & Oregon Gas Sources

danbfree

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#21
The Department of Agriculture manages the regular testing of fuel. They didn't start testing until 1997, which explains why I grew up thinking we had crappy gas. The fuel has to have 9.2 to 10% ethanol. I pasted some more info below, I will have to look up the ASTM standards tomorrow. I might send them an email to see what the average test shows.

http://https://www.oregon.gov/ODA/programs/ISCP/Pages/MotorFuelQuality.aspx

Per the site above:
Anti-Knock Index, or octane, is used to price gasoline in the US market. ODA checks all grades of gasoline offered for sale at each gas station to make certain that the posted octane rating correctly represents the gasoline sold. Three basic checks are routinely performed:

Dispenser blending ratios are verified
Product certification documents are inspected
Fuel is tested using portable octane analyzers

The laws ors:
“Ethanol” means ethyl alcohol, a flammable liquid having the formula C2H5OH used or sold for the purpose of blending or mixing with gasoline for use in motor vehicles.

“Gasoline” means any fuel sold for use in spark ignition engines whether leaded or unleaded.

646.913 Limitations on gasoline sales; requirements for ethanol content in gasoline; rules. (1) Except as provided in subsection (4) of this section, a wholesale dealer, retail dealer or nonretail dealer may not sell gasoline or offer gasoline for sale unless the gasoline contains 10 percent denatured fuel ethanol by volume. Gasoline that contains anhydrous ethanol in concentrations between 9.2 percent and 10 percent by volume complies with the requirement set forth in this subsection.

(2) The State Department of Agriculture shall adopt standards for gasoline blended with ethanol that is sold in this state. The standards that the department adopts shall require that the gasoline blended with ethanol:

(a) Contains ethanol that is derived from agricultural or woody waste or residue;

(b) Complies with the volatility requirements specified in 40 C.F.R. part 80;

(c) Complies with ASTM International specification D 4814, Standard Specification for Automotive Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel;

(d) Is not blended with casinghead gasoline, absorption gasoline, drip gasoline or natural gasoline after the gasoline has been sold, transferred or otherwise removed from a refinery or terminal; and

(e) Contains denatured fuel ethanol that complies with ASTM International specification D 4806, Standard Specification for Denatured Fuel Ethanol for Blending with Gasolines for Use as Automotive Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel.

(3) The department may review specifications adopted by ASTM International, or equivalent organizations, and federal regulations and revise the standards adopted under this section as necessary.

"Octane rating” means the rating of the anti-knock characteristics of a grade or type of gasoline determined by dividing by two the sum of the research octane number and the motor octane number.

646.949 Signs identifying octane rating. (1) A dealer who sells or offers for sale any gasoline shall conspicuously display a sign on each side of the dispensing device, using descriptive commercial terms that accurately identify the octane rating of the gasoline being dispensed from that device. The sign shall be of such size and design and shall be posted in such a manner as the Director of Agriculture determines will adequately inform the purchaser of the octane rating of the gasoline.

(2) Rules adopted pursuant to this section shall conform, to the greatest extent practicable, to rules of the Federal Trade Commission regarding automotive fuel rating certification and posting. [1997 c.310 §3]



646.951 Testing of motor vehicle fuel. (1) The Director of Agriculture may test motor vehicle fuel for the purpose of inspecting the motor vehicle fuel supply of any service station, business or other establishment that sells or offers for sale, or distributes, transports, hauls, delivers or stores motor vehicle fuel that is subsequently sold or offered for sale, for compliance with the motor vehicle fuel quality standards adopted pursuant to ORS 646.957.

(2) The director or the director’s authorized agent shall have access during normal business hours to all places where motor vehicle fuel is sold to or by a retail dealer, nonretail dealer or wholesale dealer for the purpose of examination, inspection and investigation of the establishment’s motor vehicle fuel supply, shall collect or cause to be collected samples of the motor vehicle fuel and shall test or analyze the samples for compliance with motor vehicle fuel quality standards adopted pursuant to ORS 646.957.

(3) Before taking any enforcement action under ORS 646.953 or 646.963, the director shall cause motor vehicle fuel samples to be tested in accordance with standards, reproducibility limits and procedures that are, in the director’s judgment, consistent with ASTM International standards and procedures.

(4) The director or the director’s authorized agent shall notify the owner or person in charge of the facility of the sample collection as soon as is practicable after a sample is taken. The volume of the sample taken for testing must be adequate for the tests to be performed and to allow for a portion of the sample to be retained for subsequent testing, if the need arises. A sample with a test result that is outside the test reproducibility limits, when compared to the applicable limits, shall be properly stored to preserve the sample for at least 90 days. [1997 c.310 §4; 2013 c.1 §83]
So, yes, we have much more consistent gas then we had pre '97, that's for sure... and gotta love how they just use the word "minimum" to describe the octane rating, which makes it easy to not worry about re-rating anything after the e10 mandate started and just kept calling it "92 minimum"... But I wonder why CA gas has such marginal 91 premium that it performs worse with it's intended 91 tune than on our "92 minimum" on a 93 tune. Quite likely it could be additional smog preventative formulations or just due to volume demands... oh well, I'm just glad it's how it is up here and enjoy it.
 


XanRules

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#22
You can buy one of these to test the ethanol content. https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fuel-Technology-36-E85-Sample/dp/B007ZJ749O

Jay's garage in Portland sells E85 out of the pump and between April-October it tests very well, always abover 85, usually 88-90.

Dizzy is coming out with an ethanol content gauge soon which would be a nice option, but I don't think it's really neccessary for us locally where there are only a small handful of places to get ethanol. For me having actual race blend E85 out of a barrell, I never need to worry about it. Plus Dizzy recommends a 3:1 ratio when mixing to make things even easier. 3 gallons of pump 92 with 1 gallon of E85. Or for the Fiesta with it's 12.4 gallon tank, 3/4 full of 92 and top the rest off with E85.

Edit: This tester may be more useful since it offers more than just 85 and up. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073HLSVH...Hc&pd_rd_r=Y1N54ZNF25RZPBBHY175&pd_rd_w=57ZvK
Yeah, I've heard about Jays, but they also only sell regular gas (not premium) so I'd have to fill with their ethanol and then drive somewhere else for premium, which sounds like a hassle and i'm very lazy.
 


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Location
Vancouver
#23
Yeah, I've heard about Jays, but they also only sell regular gas (not premium) so I'd have to fill with their ethanol and then drive somewhere else for premium, which sounds like a hassle and i'm very lazy.
Lol, didn't know about the non-premium gas. Never payed attention
 


OP
anticon

anticon

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Thread Starter #24
Yeah, I've heard about Jays, but they also only sell regular gas (not premium) so I'd have to fill with their ethanol and then drive somewhere else for premium, which sounds like a hassle and i'm very lazy.
IDK it might be worth it every once in a while to fill up a 2.5 gallon container and then head to a station with premium fuel, and just add it then. Dizzy shows +25 HP and 60+ ft-lb on top of the 93 Stage 2 tune.
 


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Location
Vancouver
#25
OP
anticon

anticon

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Thread Starter #27


I've never been there so I street viewed it in Google, it definitely has e85 on the sign. :) I think I may just get the e30 tune now, and treat myself every once in a while, and then use the standard tunes the rest of the time...or just get both.
 


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Location
Vancouver
#28


I've never been there so I street viewed it in Google, it definitely has e85 on the sign. :) I think I may just get the e30 tune now, and treat myself every once in a while, and then use the standard tunes the rest of the time...or just get both.
Hey, there it is!

Get both tunes. I couldn't imagine running e30 and then going back to the OEM tune...wow lol. Dizzy offers both for $125, where his single fuel tune is $75 so it's really a small price to pay. Lots of fun for 50 bucks.
 


danbfree

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Tigard, Oregon, USA
#29


I've never been there so I street viewed it in Google, it definitely has e85 on the sign. :) I think I may just get the e30 tune now, and treat myself every once in a while, and then use the standard tunes the rest of the time...or just get both.
But no premium to add to the E85 makes it even more inconvenient, like you said you can always get cans filled but would be REALLY nice to just have it it around, period, like in Cali... a Space Age or some other semi-generic place carried it out at NE 162nd and Glisan though I am pretty sure the don't anymore... There are search engines to find E85 but too many incomplete ones, it's just too hard around here!

As far as gains, some people have dyno'd only about 10 more HP while others have claimed more, seems kind of inconsistent..
 


XanRules

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#32
I asked Adam at Tune+ about this last night, basically explained the situation and asked if it's worth the hassle of filling up with E85 then driving somewhere else for 93, his response was as follows:

It is absolutely better, more power, cleaner engine, and less prone to getting knock.
*
I would use our mix tool on the website and the FAQ to get an idea how to mix properly. Then you can simply add the E85 you need based on the calculator then drive slowly over to the station with 93oct and then fill up the rest of the way. It is always best to do it this way with at least a ¼ tank of 93oct. E85 on top, then top it off with 93oct.
*
Make sure when you use the calculator to fill up when you already have E30 in the tank that you enter in the mix tool that you have E30 in the tank. You can’t just keep adding the same amount of E85 and 93 everytime if you already have E30 in the tank.
(emphasis mine)

The tool to which he is referring is here: https://adamtuned.myshopify.com/pages/tuning-tools
 


danbfree

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#33
I asked Adam at Tune+ about this last night, basically explained the situation and asked if it's worth the hassle of filling up with E85 then driving somewhere else for 93, his response was as follows:


(emphasis mine)

The tool to which he is referring is here: https://adamtuned.myshopify.com/pages/tuning-tools
Yeah, I always new you COULD do this, but still not very convenient for me to go into downtown when I live in Tigard and work in Hillsboro right now... Well, if I end up with this new job that will have me going across the city center I'm going to get an e30 tune added for shits for sure, maybe just straight add the new Dizzy version in e30 only and keep using Stratified for my 91 and 93 options. Thanks for confirming Xan.
 


slopoke

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Livermore
#34
Or buy a 5 gallon jug so you can get two tanks out of it. E85 can sit in a sealed quality container for a couple months easily.

This: https://autoplicity.com/10894111-su...MI_cfAusry3AIVw2p-Ch32dgQCEAQYASABEgIENvD_BwE
Paired with this: https://www.amazon.com/VP-Racing-Fu...rd_wg=OYYwD&psc=1&refRID=M97B7VAWP1YY2C533SEB

That's a great deal for a nice fuel jug and spout.
Word of caution, the P/N for the jug breaks down to just the cap. If you order the part in the link, you will only get the deluxe cap, no jug. The P/N for the jug is R7100RD and the price is very different.

https://autoplicity.com/10892913-sunoco-r7100rd-red-sunoco-race-jug

https://www.sunocoracejugs.com/indexc.cfm?pk=18
 


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Location
Vancouver
#35
Good catch on the lid, didn't even pay attention to that!

Dan, I'm not sure why you're so caught up on peak HP numbers. You can't really fix that through tuning, it's the fault of the tiny turbo not being able to move air up top. Torque gains are way more fun and noticeable on these cars anyway, and you get a ton of that with an E30 tune. FWIW, Dizzy does show a 20ish whp gain between his Stage 2 pump gas and E30 tune. But again, 60 wtq...that's where the power will be felt. Finally drove around enough to have room for a proper ethanol mix in the tank, so going to splash the E85 in tonight and see what all this hubbub is about
 


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Location
Vancouver
#36
Another thing I'm interested in is how accurate the fuel level % parameter is on our AP's. I see Adam's calculator wants a percentage and obviously can only be acquired through the AP.
 


XanRules

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#37
Yeah, I always new you COULD do this, but still not very convenient for me to go into downtown when I live in Tigard and work in Hillsboro right now... Well, if I end up with this new job that will have me going across the city center I'm going to get an e30 tune added for shits for sure, maybe just straight add the new Dizzy version in e30 only and keep using Stratified for my 91 and 93 options. Thanks for confirming Xan.
Ah yeah - I work a few blocks from Jays so this wouldn't be a huge hassle, though scooting over to the Clackamas Costco (since gas is frequently like $1/gal cheaper there than it is in downtown Portland) would make it a little trickier.

Another thing I'm interested in is how accurate the fuel level % parameter is on our AP's. I see Adam's calculator wants a percentage and obviously can only be acquired through the AP.
I think if I decide to run E30 I'll grab a dedicated gauge that runs a sensor in the fuel tank/lines, either the Zeitronix one of the one that Dizzy is making. Not that I don't trust the AP, I just don't like to leave it plugged in all the time and would rather have dedicated gauges and sensors for stuff I need to keep an eye on.
 


slopoke

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#38
I'm going to start tuning for E30 soon. My closest E85 station is about 15 miles away, the next one is about 20 miles. So,I've got a few 5 gallon jugs some for regular fuel and some will be used for E85. I plan to keep at least 10 gallons of E85 on hand. I normally refuel after three commutes and that breaks down to just over 9 gallons.

So my refueling method will be to have a two gallon can filled with E85 and drive to the gas station, dump the E85 into the tank and finish with 6 gallons of 91 octane fuel. That ratio will be roughly E29, close enough. To make up for small top ups, one 5 gallon jug will have E30 premixed. It's a slight hassle, but I don't mind.
 


danbfree

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Tigard, Oregon, USA
#39
Good catch on the lid, didn't even pay attention to that!

Dan, I'm not sure why you're so caught up on peak HP numbers. You can't really fix that through tuning, it's the fault of the tiny turbo not being able to move air up top. Torque gains are way more fun and noticeable on these cars anyway, and you get a ton of that with an E30 tune. FWIW, Dizzy does show a 20ish whp gain between his Stage 2 pump gas and E30 tune. But again, 60 wtq...that's where the power will be felt. Finally drove around enough to have room for a proper ethanol mix in the tank, so going to splash the E85 in tonight and see what all this hubbub is about
It's because we are already overwhelmed with enough torque, not sure why you don't see that :)

I just want to help max out the stock turbo so I can pull as best as possible up top and an e30 mix does this, gonna go with the step colder plugs too regardless. But in fact, might have to choose the "limit torque in 2nd gear" option in my tune, our tiny chassis just want to spin the wheels with all the torque we have, which is around 250 at the wheels in my 93 tune now, another 50 will be ridiculous, but the 15 HP will be welcome to help stretch out the power band a bit especially.
 


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Vancouver
#40
Second gear will be a handful, I agree. 3rd and 4th should be a blast. With Jason's integrated TC (Stratified does this as well as you know), I don't think it will be that bad however.
 




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